SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[aright]

Thanks for that GT I think every thing you have said is reasonably balanced but the one thing it doesn't include is the EU's political and social problems, some of which are serious. I think it's fair to say it's unlikely the EU will fall apart as a result of it's economy but that's only true if they can resolve their problems with the basket cases, Greece, Italy, Portugal and to a lesser extent Spain.

The now effective leader of the opposition in France is an EU hating communist. The new young leader of Austria is reported to want as an ally a frighteningly resurgent far right party. The Czech elections have been complicated by a business leader who parallels Donald Trump. In Germany, an extreme Nationalist, far right wing party, the AfD , are now the third largest governing party. Marine le Pen is another right wing force in France  IMO it will be impossible for the EU to reconcile its divisions on immigration and self-government with these divisive, competing forces in their midst.

The EU Cabal backs Madrid in its fight with Catalonia albeit by standing back. I don't comment on the rights or wrongs of the situation What the Catalans want is up to them but what the non active EU demonstrates to me is  their non-democratic authoritarianism, their love of centralisation and a frightening fear of popular democracy (many Remainers on this forum have the same affliction). 

In short I think the demise of the EU will only be in small part as a result of the economy; in the main it will be as a result  of a lack of enlightenment and an elite, unelected, unaccountable, leadership who feel a moral superiority. This can of course change if they take a course in attitude readjustment.

[citybiker]

To be honest, I still think that the worst is yet to come, I would love to be proved wrong believe me but the UK economy is primarily consumer driven as far as I can work out.
 
Consumer spending & confidence is well down, as is productivity, consumer credit (car loans & credit cards) is booming, the Bank of England thinks that 75,000 jobs in the City of London's financial centre could be lost, look at the last set of figures for car manufacturing, woefully bad and no one is buying them either. 
 
And to cap it all the EU economy, if latest figures are anything to go by is now on the up, OK, unemployment is a little high but that could soon change, so all those people that voted to leave because a bit like Germany and France we were paying the Lions share into the EU pot and subsidising the likes of Greece, Spain etc are now finding that their economies are beginning to boom and we are beginning to bust.
 
The EU wants, in my opinion, to punish the UK for being an upstart daring to challenge the establishment, I would love for other countries to take the same route as us but I fear that they will wait to see the punitive Brexit bill levelled at us before proceeding, the experiment is over, it has failed and by voting to leave we are setting a precedent.
 
I read somewhere yesterday that the the EU investment Bank is going to owe the UK Billions of pounds until about 2050, if that's the case just take what we supposedly owe the EU from that and give us whatever is left.  
 
I have pensions and investments that are supposed to look after me in my lazy years as I enjoy retirement, the fall in the pound has put a dent in that, not so much as I can't go out have fun and enjoy myself but the good old GBP don't stretch as far as it used to a year or so ago, fortunately I have another pension coming on stream next year so not all doom and gloom.
 
If you have read this far then let me qualify the above by saying that I truly hope to be proved wrong, I want to see UK Plc boom, to shock the world and prove every naysayer (me included) that this was the best ever move made by the UK people.
 
Please Gawd make it so 
 
 
 

The U.K. has 16% invested in EIB amongst other EU assets, the EU also has to replace alternative net contributions left by the U.K.

Nobody likes change, in many people’s eyes Brexit has bought uncertainty while others see an global opportunity (myself) and the U.K. will continue to trade with the EU. Unknown territory is fraught with challenges, the focus should be a pragmatic, level headed mindset.


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[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

21 hours ago, aright said:

You are wasting your time.

When asked to explain the pitfalls of leaving the EU the Remainers are full of noisy flatulence ;when asked to explain the advantages of staying in the EU you are confronted with the strain and silence of constipation.

You really don't understand what this is all about.

"The strain and silence of constipation" just about sums up the remoaners (apart form being loud about their refusal to except a democratic referendum), thanks for realising that much.

The UK has been exploited and generally ripped off by the EU for long enough. A long fart is about what it deserves.

Time you went to Specsavers if you can't see what is in plain sight.

 

Get the Irish passport, and renounce British citizenship ASAP.  That will allow you to live in both the UK and EU states without any problem.

Best wishes for the future.

 

 

[aright]

17 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You really don't understand what this is all about.

"The strain and silence of constipation" just about sums up the remoaners (apart form being loud about their refusal to except a democratic referendum), thanks for realising that much.

The UK has been exploited and generally ripped off by the EU for long enough. A long fart is about what it deserves.

Time you went to Specsavers if you can't see what is in plain sight.

 

Get the Irish passport, and renounce British citizenship ASAP.  That will allow you to live in both the UK and EU states without any problem.

Best wishes for the future.

 

 

Time I went to Specsavers?????  That whole passage has nothing to do with Leavers it refers in its entirety to Remainers.  It refers to the 2 answers given by Remainers in my experience to 2 questions. If you paid more attention you would know I'm an ardent Leaver.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

19 minutes ago, aright said:

thanks for realising that much

You don't make it clear in anything I have read of yours that you are a committed Leaver, and certainly not in any recent replies you have made to me.

I will review your earlier comments, just in case I have replied to you by mistake when I intended to comment on someone else's post.

I am pleased to hear it decisively, and if I have misunderstood previous posts I am sorry and apologise. If that is the case I will go to Specsavers!

UK needs to get out.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[adammike]

58 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You really don't understand what this is all about.

"The strain and silence of constipation" just about sums up the remoaners (apart form being loud about their refusal to except a democratic referendum), thanks for realising that much.

The UK has been exploited and generally ripped off by the EU for long enough. A long fart is about what it deserves.

Time you went to Specsavers if you can't see what is in plain sight.

 

Get the Irish passport, and renounce British citizenship ASAP.  That will allow you to live in both the UK and EU states without any problem.

Best wishes for the future.

 

 

I don't have to renounce my British citizenship the Brits and Irish are allowed dual nationalities. I would have voted remain and would vote labour if I could,my beef is with the Tories not the country that's why I want Brexit to fail to destroy them,if it takes the little Englanders and Ukip down with them even better. 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

4 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

If you have read this far then let me qualify the above by saying that I truly hope to be proved wrong, I want to see UK Plc boom, to shock the world and prove every naysayer (me included) that this was the best ever move made by the UK people.

You should have started the post with this comment...

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

13 minutes ago, adammike said:

I don't have to renounce my British citizenship the Brits and Irish are allowed dual nationalities. I would have voted remain and would vote labour if I could,my beef is with the Tories not the country that's why I want Brexit to fail to destroy them,if it takes the little Englanders and Ukip down with them even better. 

Thanks for clearing something up.

You're ID and another chap "aright" has got me confused a little.

You seem to have a psychotic hate for Tories, they sort out the economy after Labour spend, spend, spend.

Without them Labour would never have funds to promise utopia in their manifestos.

Cheers G

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Thanks for that GT I think every thing you have said is reasonably balanced but the one thing it doesn't include is the EU's political and social problems, some of which are serious. I think it's fair to say it's unlikely the EU will fall apart as a result of it's economy but that's only true if they can resolve their problems with the basket cases, Greece, Italy, Portugal and to a lesser extent Spain.

The now effective leader of the opposition in France is an EU hating communist. The new young leader of Austria is reported to want as an ally a frighteningly resurgent far right party. The Czech elections have been complicated by a business leader who parallels Donald Trump. In Germany, an extreme Nationalist, far right wing party, the AfD , are now the third largest governing party. Marine le Pen is another right wing force in France  IMO it will be impossible for the EU to reconcile its divisions on immigration and self-government with these divisive, competing forces in their midst.

The EU Cabal backs Madrid in its fight with Catalonia albeit by standing back. I don't comment on the rights or wrongs of the situation What the Catalans want is up to them but what the non active EU demonstrates to me is  their non-democratic authoritarianism, their love of centralisation and a frightening fear of popular democracy (many Remainers on this forum have the same affliction). 

In short I think the demise of the EU will only be in small part as a result of the economy; in the main it will be as a result  of a lack of enlightenment and an elite, unelected, unaccountable, leadership who feel a moral superiority. This can of course change if they take a course in attitude readjustment.

Sorry, got you confused with "adamike" it seems.

I will book an eye test tomorrow.

[Khun Han]

15 minutes ago, adammike said:

I don't have to renounce my British citizenship the Brits and Irish are allowed dual nationalities. I would have voted remain and would vote labour if I could,my beef is with the Tories not the country that's why I want Brexit to fail to destroy them,if it takes the little Englanders and Ukip down with them even better. 

 

You want brexit to fail and the UK go down the pan because of your dislike of a political party? (and, as you stated in another post, you're going to sit back and enjoy the show). What a sad, bitter and twisted person you must be!

[aright]

1 minute ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Sorry, got you confused with "adamike" it seems.

I will book an eye test tomorrow.

No problem!

[adammike]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

You want brexit to fail and the UK go down the pan because of your dislike of a political party? (and, as you stated in another post, you're going to sit back and enjoy the show). What a sad, bitter and twisted person you must be!

Not go down the pan, it's just that there will be a hit to the economy and the pound and maybe a rise in unemployment, that's a small price to pay to get the country back from the clutches of the tory scum and their corporate and billionaire sponsors ,maybe the bankers will get their comeuppance and a few of them see the inside of a jail.

[adammike]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

You want brexit to fail and the UK go down the pan because of your dislike of a political party? (and, as you stated in another post, you're going to sit back and enjoy the show). What a sad, bitter and twisted person you must be!

No need to get personal, you sound like my ex when she realised their was no money coming her way Co's I blew it all in Thailand. 

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, adammike said:

Not go down the pan, it's just that there will be a hit to the economy and the pound and maybe a rise in unemployment, that's a small price to pay to get the country back from the clutches of the tory scum and their corporate and billionaire sponsors ,maybe the bankers will get their comeuppance and a few of them see the inside of a jail.

 

Dream on. In the unlikely event of brexit failing, you will get your childish entertainment from Tory politicians falling on their swords. But the real players - the billionaires/bankers - won't even suffer a scratch. Brexit is a minor blip to those people, a small spanner in the works.

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, adammike said:

No need to get personal, you sound like my ex when she realised their was no money coming her way Co's I blew it all in Thailand. 

 

Nothing personal about identifying a personality disorder in someone who hopes to take pleasure in the suffering of an entire nation.

[adammike]

22 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nothing personal about identifying a personality disorder in someone who hopes to take pleasure in the suffering of an entire nation.

Just the Welsh and English bit.

[adammike]

23 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nothing personal about identifying a personality disorder in someone who hopes to take pleasure in the suffering of an entire nation.

There's a good German word for that...schadenfreude. 

[lapamita]

19 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Do you notice any similarities here with the early 1940's Europe?

No,and any people see some similarities,do not have human sense

 

the Goal of the Nazis was a diffrent ,than the Goal of an EU

 

The Goal of the EU and Gb today , is not comparable to the last centurys

 

sorry, completly out of the box thinking ,with no fundamentals.

 

any only for laughing gravy  ( bcs really this compensation makes no sense,simmilar to the map above)...some guys are full of fear torwards the futrure,if see this maps. ( 1925 compare today),maybe thats why so many voted for brexit.... Fear ,to get lost in the new world order?? and dreaming of old times,back to great empire? many big nations get lost in the pastmilleniums, incl the great empire, the nazis, the udssr,the spanish,the romans and so on.. Great empires from the past,will never return

 

 

 

Back to financials:

 

everybody is talking here about financial and loosing jobs there out.

You are so proud of the financial mafia and the neo liberal system they indroduced ? ( intoduced by alan greenspan ,us followed by the GB)???

 

I think only the Goverment and Bip and some bankers have a problem, is GB not 1000x time bigger than the streets of london.

is the normal workforce ,not worse talk about ?

isit not the Goal of the Brexit pro people, to raise living standards,saftey and salarys

 

or all forgotten??

 

I think your politicans forgot the promisses they made already. in favour of banks,financials and multinationals ...there the support started already by reducing taxes and so on............

 

The city must not scarry , the rest of the country yes

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by lapamita

[Laughing Gravy]

33 minutes ago, lapamita said:

the Goal of the Nazis was a diffrent ,than the Goal of an EU

Really, I would disagree. One may have used bullets, the other doesn't. still the same  vision. A federalized Europe, eroding cultures and identities and taking complete control.

 

34 minutes ago, lapamita said:

Fear ,to get lost in the new world order?? and dreaming of old times,back to great empire? many big nations get lost in the pastmilleniums, incl the great empire, the nazis, the udssr,the spanish,the romans and so on.. Great empires from the past,will never return

Nothing at all to do with great empires. It is to do with national identity and sovereignty. Great empires will never return. Iagree. Ironic. it is the new empires of the EU that are here and taking over like the Nazis, so the analogy I perfectly acceptable to those who haven't got their head in the sand.

 

37 minutes ago, lapamita said:

No,and any people see some similarities,do not have human sense

Yes, the typical you don't have human sense claim.

[SheungWan]

37 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Really, I would disagree. One may have used bullets, the other doesn't. still the same  vision. A federalized Europe, eroding cultures and identities and taking complete control.

 

Nothing at all to do with great empires. It is to do with national identity and sovereignty. Great empires will never return. Iagree. Ironic. it is the new empires of the EU that are here and taking over like the Nazis, so the analogy I perfectly acceptable to those who haven't got their head in the sand.

 

Yes, the typical you don't have human sense claim.

Common sense: see above

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, aright said:

Thanks for that GT I think every thing you have said is reasonably balanced but the one thing it doesn't include is the EU's political and social problems, some of which are serious. I think it's fair to say it's unlikely the EU will fall apart as a result of it's economy but that's only true if they can resolve their problems with the basket cases, Greece, Italy, Portugal and to a lesser extent Spain.

The now effective leader of the opposition in France is an EU hating communist. The new young leader of Austria is reported to want as an ally a frighteningly resurgent far right party. The Czech elections have been complicated by a business leader who parallels Donald Trump. In Germany, an extreme Nationalist, far right wing party, the AfD , are now the third largest governing party. Marine le Pen is another right wing force in France  IMO it will be impossible for the EU to reconcile its divisions on immigration and self-government with these divisive, competing forces in their midst.

The EU Cabal backs Madrid in its fight with Catalonia albeit by standing back. I don't comment on the rights or wrongs of the situation What the Catalans want is up to them but what the non active EU demonstrates to me is  their non-democratic authoritarianism, their love of centralisation and a frightening fear of popular democracy (many Remainers on this forum have the same affliction). 

In short I think the demise of the EU will only be in small part as a result of the economy; in the main it will be as a result  of a lack of enlightenment and an elite, unelected, unaccountable, leadership who feel a moral superiority. This can of course change if they take a course in attitude readjustment.

Well that's nicely put.

 

You illustrate why I believe our negotiating stance is rather different than was the case when Cameron was trying to negotiate change two years ago. I am sure change IS possible.

 

I think Spain is belatedly handling the Catalonia situation deftly. The EU is correct to remain on the sidelines. For now.

[pegman]

Brexitcide will cost the UK 75,000 very good paying jobs in the financial industry not including stock brokerages. The hit to GDP will be huge. That will cause a decade long recession. This is nuts!

http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/brexit-may-cost-75000-u-k-finance-jobs-top-regulator-says-1

[adammike]

It's started Fallon resigns, a cabinet reshuffle needed. Don't you luv schadenfreude. 

[adammike]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well that's nicely put.

 

You illustrate why I believe our negotiating stance is rather different than was the case when Cameron was trying to negotiate change two years ago. I am sure change IS possible.

 

I think Spain is belatedly handling the Catalonia situation deftly. The EU is correct to remain on the sidelines. For now.

Portugal is doing very well,Greece has stabilised,Spain has got Catalonia still, sure the EU has issues but they are nothing compared to the UK, they have historically low interest rates yet nobody can get onto the housing ladder, the wealthy have taken it all yet they still vote for them, Turkeys and Christmas come to mind.there will be a reckoning and the Tories will not be able to rely on the police and army to save their necks.

[rufanuf]

On 10/31/2017 at 1:09 PM, taipeir said:

Nothing to see here.

Bank of England believes Brexit could cost 75,000 finance jobs - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41803604

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

There are plenty of us that would say thats a good thing. The world needs less deceitful paper shufflers and more doers.

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, adammike said:

Portugal is doing very well,Greece has stabilised,Spain has got Catalonia still, sure the EU has issues but they are nothing compared to the UK, they have historically low interest rates yet nobody can get onto the housing ladder, the wealthy have taken it all yet they still vote for them, Turkeys and Christmas come to mind.there will be a reckoning and the Tories will not be able to rely on the police and army to save their necks.

Good to see southern Europe doing so well. The youngsters will be partying like never before!

 

Unemployment for the Greek U 25 team now < 45%. Fantastic!

 

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, rufanuf said:

There are plenty of us that would say thats a good thing. The world needs less deceitful paper shufflers and more doers.

I think you will find AI, robotics and automation will do away with many many jobs including including "doers" particularly low level munchkins 

[SheungWan]

15 hours ago, adammike said:

Portugal is doing very well,Greece has stabilised,Spain has got Catalonia still, sure the EU has issues but they are nothing compared to the UK, they have historically low interest rates yet nobody can get onto the housing ladder, the wealthy have taken it all yet they still vote for them, Turkeys and Christmas come to mind.there will be a reckoning and the Tories will not be able to rely on the police and army to save their necks.

I wouldn't be sticking Greece on my banners quite yet unless I was having a larf.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

I think you will find AI, robotics and automation will do away with many many jobs including including "doers" particularly low level munchkins 

Well, the algorithms are a complete failure so far. They make more errors than a 3 year old.

AI is a long way from being a replacement for capable human employees.

Robots are a very long way from replacing many skilled manual work.

A robot plumber? Fantasy.

(Brexit stuff I will post separately.)

 

 

[aright]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

I think you will find AI, robotics and automation will do away with many many jobs including including "doers" particularly low level munchkins 

Although a long way off I feel this will surely happen and I don't reject it as a bad thing provided political and social control is not left in the hands of those who understand the new technology.