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[webfact]

Arctic sea ice may be declining faster than expected: study

 

An undated NASA illustration shows Arctic sea ice at a record low wintertime maximum extent for the second straight year, according to scientists at the NASA-supported National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) and NASA. NASA/Goddard's Scientific Visualization Studio/C. Starr/Handout via Reuters/Files

 

CALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - Arctic sea ice may be thinning faster than predicted because salty snow on the surface of the ice skews the accuracy of satellite measurements, a new study from the University of Calgary said on Tuesday.

 

The report from the Canadian university's Cryosphere Climate Research Group published in the academic journal Geophysical Research Letters found satellite estimates for the thickness of seasonal sea ice have been overestimated by up to 25 percent.

 

That means the Arctic Ocean could be ice-free much sooner than some scientific predictions, which forecast sea ice will first disappear completely during summer months between 2040 and 2050, according to lead author Vishnu Nandan.

 

Ice-free summers in the Arctic Ocean would impact global weather patterns by increasing the magnitude and frequency of major storms, and alter the Arctic marine ecosystem, making it harder for animals like polar bears to hunt.

 

There are a wide range of projections as to when Arctic sea ice will start disappearing in summertime as a result of warming global temperatures, and the University of Calgary study calls into question satellite measurements provided so far.

 

"The problem is, microwave measurements from satellites don’t penetrate the salty snow very well, so the satellite is not measuring the proper sea ice freeboard and the satellite readings overestimate the thickness of the ice," Nandan said.

 

The sea ice freeboard refers to ice that can be seen above sea level and co-researcher John Yackel said, "Our results suggest that snow salinity should be considered in all future estimates on the Arctic seasonal ice freeboard made from satellites."

 

(Reporting by Nia Williams; editing by Diane Craft)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-10-25

[nausea]

Personally, non curo, I expect I'll be dead before we reach Solyent Green territory, feel sorry for the kids though, and the kids' kids, and the kids' kids' kids.

[Samui Bodoh]

And all the while there are people who do not believe that Climate Change is real.

 

Idiots.

 

Stinking idiots.

[ilostmypassword]

38 minutes ago, nausea said:

Personally, non curo, I expect I'll be dead before we reach Solyent Green territory, feel sorry for the kids though, and the kids' kids, and the kids' kids' kids.

So, you thing that there will be  "kids' kids' kids"? You're a raging optimist.

[BuaBS]

7 hours ago, nausea said:

Personally, non curo, I expect I'll be dead before we reach Solyent Green territory, feel sorry for the kids though, and the kids' kids, and the kids' kids' kids.

Their parents fault . Who in their right mind would produce kids ?

[boomerangutang]

The title of this thread seem like titles we've seen for the past 12 years.  The answer is 'yes.'  When the world warms, ice melts.   For GW deniers, there is nothing that will get them to see reason.  Even if all the ice melted in northern Canada, they would still find soggy reasons to deny it had anything to do with warming.   Trying to talk reason with deniers is like trying to explain to a toddler why we need to turn off the tap to an overflowing bathtub.

[bert bloggs]

43 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

The title of this thread seem like titles we've seen for the past 12 years.  The answer is 'yes.'  When the world warms, ice melts.   For GW deniers, there is nothing that will get them to see reason.  Even if all the ice melted in northern Canada, they would still find soggy reasons to deny it had anything to do with warming.   Trying to talk reason with deniers is like trying to explain to a toddler why we need to turn off the tap to an overflowing bathtub.

And trying to explain to people like you that its happened before and will keep on happening is like talking to the wall . waste of time .

[boomerangutang]

1 minute ago, bert bloggs said:

And trying to explain to people like you that its happened before and will keep on happening is like talking to the wall . waste of time .

Ok, here I go again.  It's like trying to explain to a 5 year old - what happens when he tips over his glass of milk.

 

We're not talking about climate for the past 4.5 billion years.   The climate issue at hand pertains to now and the ensuing 100 to 300 years.  A tiny fraction of the age of Earth.

 

People are overpopulating this planet.  They're living everywhere possible - even on landfills and in swamps and toxic zones.  In some cities, there are over 25,000 people per sq.Km.

 

1/4 of mankind is living within a meter of sea level, including half of Thailand.  A warmer planet = melting ice.  Melting ice = higher sea levels.  A warmer planet also = bigger storms and increased desertification, but don't let all that give you an aneurysm. Perhaps I'm putting out too much info for a simple mind to comprehend.   

[BuaBS]

9 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

People are overpopulating this planet.  They're living everywhere possible - even on landfills and in swamps and toxic zones.  In some cities, there are over 25,000 people per sq.Km.

The only thing you are right on.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Arctic sea ice will start disappearing in summertime as a result of warming global temperatures

The Arctic Ocean could be almost entirely free of ice by 2040.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/arctic-ocean-no-ice-free-by-2040-global-warming-climate-change-scientists-sea-temperatures-a7719011.html

Thousands of years of an ice cap - gone in an ecological instant.

[digger70]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

And all the while there are people who do not believe that Climate Change is real.

 

Idiots.

 

Stinking idiots.

Ice age phenomenon is an about every 100,000 year cycle from Cold to Warm  &  Warm to Cold,,,,Guess what Sherlock,,,,,  It's Getting a bit Warmer now.Don't worry it will cool down again a bit but we won't see that unless you want to hang around for an other 100,000 years.   

[RickBradford]

Arctic sea ice may be declining faster than expected: study

 

The activists always trot this one out when they are feeling short of attention. Cue picture of lonely-looking polar bear.

 

Quote

 

The ice-packed Arctic Ocean might become navigable in another 25 or 50 years if the present "warming-up" tendency of the Polar region continued. (1954)

..
"If this goes on, the Arctic Ocean will be open the year round" before the close of the century (New Scientist, 1960)

..
"Arctic specialist Bernt Balchen says a general warming trend over the North Pole is melting the polar ice cap and may produce an ice-free Arctic Ocean by the year 2000." (1972)

..
NASA climate scientist Jay Zwally said: “At this rate, the Arctic Ocean could be nearly ice-free at the end of summer by 2012, much faster than previous predictions.” (AP, 2007)

..
Now climate scientists say the Arctic could be completely ice free in the summer by 2012. (The Times)

..
Arctic summers ice-free 'by 2013' (BBC, 2007)

 

etc etc etc ... zzzz

 

Even though the predictions always fail, it's always enough to capture the imagination of the dim-bulb end of the climate activist spectrum and emboldens them to throw silly abuse like 'denier' and 'idiot' all over the place. It always makes them feel better about themselves.

[IAMHERE]

Climate change is natural.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, RickBradford said:

Arctic sea ice may be declining faster than expected: study

 

The activists always trot this one out when they are feeling short of attention. Cue picture of lonely-looking polar bear.

 

Even though the predictions always fail, it's always enough to capture the imagination of the dim-bulb end of the climate activist spectrum and emboldens them to throw silly abuse like 'denier' and 'idiot' all over the place. It always makes them feel better about themselves.

As usual, you're peddling lies about climate change models.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm

[RickBradford]

40 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

As usual, you're peddling lies about climate change models.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm

As usual, you're promoting a joke website as though it had something serious to say about climate.

 

The demonstrable fact is that predictions of the demise of Arctic sea ice, with or without fake pictures of polar bears, come round with great regularity, and all of them have proven false.

[Somtamnication]

Can't wait to see Manhattan starting to sink. Then maybe, just maybe, the deniers will wake up.

[Elkski]

Yes ice ages come and go many times but this time I believe man has released a vast amount of carbon in a very short period of time so we have been a big cause this time.   The magnetic pole has flopped thousands of times too. I just don't want to have to pay for cities along the coast that flood via taxes or higher insurance premiums for me. Just look at all the guys bitching about flooding in Thailand.  As if you can't look at a map and see thailand is one big River Delta.  So don't live in low areas and bitch.   Or expect bailouts.  

[TimTang]

On 24/10/2017 at 5:58 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

And all the while there are people who do not believe that Climate Change is real.

 

Idiots.

 

Stinking idiots.

 

A significant warming of the Arctic was noted as the U.S Monthly Weather Review contained a report from the US Consul in Bergen, Norway, saying “The Arctic seems to be warming up. Reports from fisherman, seal hunters and explorers who sail the seas about Spitzbergen and the eastern Arctic , all point to a radical change in climatic conditions, and hitherto unheard-of high temperatures in that part of the earth’s surface.”

The article goes on to say “Ice conditions were exceptional. In fact so little ice has never before been noted. … Many old landmarks are so changed as to be unrecognisable. … At many points where glaciers formerly extended far into the sea they have entirely disappeared.”

 

This significant warming of the Arctic was noted in 1922.

 

Of course Climate Change is REAL. It's been happening for millions of years. Collecting taxes, and scaring children aren't going to change that fact. Follow the MONEY and you will know the TRUTH!!!!!!

[TimTang]

22 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Ok, here I go again.  It's like trying to explain to a 5 year old - what happens when he tips over his glass of milk.

 

We're not talking about climate for the past 4.5 billion years.   The climate issue at hand pertains to now and the ensuing 100 to 300 years.  A tiny fraction of the age of Earth.

 

People are overpopulating this planet.  They're living everywhere possible - even on landfills and in swamps and toxic zones.  In some cities, there are over 25,000 people per sq.Km.

 

1/4 of mankind is living within a meter of sea level, including half of Thailand.  A warmer planet = melting ice.  Melting ice = higher sea levels.  A warmer planet also = bigger storms and increased desertification, but don't let all that give you an aneurysm. Perhaps I'm putting out too much info for a simple mind to comprehend.   

 

It would be a waste of time to try and convince you that "Global Warming" now called "Climate Change" (GEE What's up with that) is a Globalist SCAM, so here's a little experiment you can do on your own. Get a measuring cup and fill it half way with water, now place enough ice cubes in until it reaches a full cup, now wait for the ice to melt. You will notice that there is now less than one cup of water. WHY? Because ICE displaces more volume than water. If both the Arctic and Antarctic melted the sea levels would go DOWN not UP.

 

There has been NO rise in average global temperature for 17 years and storms have actually decreased not increased so I'd rather stick with my simple mind than you complicated Bull$it.

[wadsy]

16 minutes ago, TimTang said:

 

A significant warming of the Arctic was noted as the U.S Monthly Weather Review contained a report from the US Consul in Bergen, Norway, saying “The Arctic seems to be warming up. Reports from fisherman, seal hunters and explorers who sail the seas about Spitzbergen and the eastern Arctic , all point to a radical change in climatic conditions, and hitherto unheard-of high temperatures in that part of the earth’s surface.”

The article goes on to say “Ice conditions were exceptional. In fact so little ice has never before been noted. … Many old landmarks are so changed as to be unrecognisable. … At many points where glaciers formerly extended far into the sea they have entirely disappeared.”

 

This significant warming of the Arctic was noted in 1922.

 

Of course Climate Change is REAL. It's been happening for millions of years. Collecting taxes, and scaring children aren't going to change that fact. Follow the MONEY and you will know the TRUTH!!!!!!

I was just going to post the same thing bud. 

[TimTang]

2 minutes ago, wadsy said:

I was just going to post the same thing bud. 

So you're a simple minded idiot like me? When will we learn?

 

/sarc

[ilostmypassword]

15 hours ago, digger70 said:

Ice age phenomenon is an about every 100,000 year cycle from Cold to Warm  &  Warm to Cold,,,,Guess what Sherlock,,,,,  It's Getting a bit Warmer now.Don't worry it will cool down again a bit but we won't see that unless you want to hang around for an other 100,000 years.   

If you had a choice between an savings account that paid 1 percent interest and an account that paid 25 percent interest, it's clear that you would just flip a coin to choose because with both accounts your money would grow. But those of us who understand the relevance of rates know that your money would grow a lot faster in one of those accounts. The same goes for climate. The natural rate of temperature increase post ice age rebound is well documented. And so is the unprecedentedly  recent rate of temperature increase. The ice age rebound offers no clue as to why the rate has so dramatically changed.

[janclaes47]

On 25/10/2017 at 6:25 AM, webfact said:

"The problem is, microwave measurements from satellites don’t penetrate the salty snow very well, so the satellite is not measuring the proper sea ice freeboard and the satellite readings overestimate the thickness of the ice," Nandan said.

 

In other words, we can't proof it, so we say climate change is the reason that we can't proof it.

 

They must get very desperate.

[TimTang]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

If you had a choice between an savings account that paid 1 percent interest and an account that paid 25 percent interest, it's clear that you would just flip a coin to choose because with both accounts your money would grow. But those of us who understand the relevance of rates know that your money would grow a lot faster in one of those accounts. The same goes for climate. The natural rate of temperature increase post ice age rebound is well documented. And so is the unprecedentedly  recent rate of temperature increase. The ice age rebound offers no clue as to why the rate has so dramatically changed.

 

"...the unprecedentedly  recent rate of temperature increase." Please inform me how you interpret NO INCREASE in temperature for the last 17 years to be an "unprecedentedly recent rate of temperature increase"? Where is your DATA coming from?

[RickBradford]

The activists run round crying disaster at all turns, but the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change doesn't support their claims.

 

The IPCC acknowledges: "Arctic sea-ice extent has decreased by 2.9% per decade over the 1978-1996 period; sea ice has thinned, and there are now more melt days per summer. Sea-ice extent in the Nordic seas has decreased by 30% over the past 130 years."

 

It then continues: "It is not yet clear whether changes in sea ice of the past few decades are linked to a natural cycle in climate variability or have resulted explicitly from global warming."

 

Of course, yelling "denier" at everyone is much easier for the activists than actually doing some research....

[TimTang]

9 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

The activists run round crying disaster at all turns, but the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change doesn't support their claims.

 

The IPCC acknowledges: "Arctic sea-ice extent has decreased by 2.9% per decade over the 1978-1996 period; sea ice has thinned, and there are now more melt days per summer. Sea-ice extent in the Nordic seas has decreased by 30% over the past 130 years."

 

It then continues: "It is not yet clear whether changes in sea ice of the past few decades are linked to a natural cycle in climate variability or have resulted explicitly from global warming."

 

Of course, yelling "denier" at everyone is much easier for the activists than actually doing some research....

 

The other problem is that the REAL Climatologists that have provided any evidence that contradicts the Globalist Climate Change Agenda are now working as Pizza delivery boys because their careers have been destroyed for daring to tell the truth.

 

Notice also how labelling someone with an Ad hominem like DENIER makes any logical debate on the subject REDUNDANT.

 

Notice also that every Global Warmist on this forum instantly refers to any one that dares even QUESTION the theory as stupid, an idiot, child killer, antiEarth...and it just goes on and on. They are even considering jail terms for those that don't agree with their hypothesis. 

 

I would think that something this important SHOULD  have people debating on BOTH sides of the argument when it involves taxing people into poverty and destroying economies that rely on existing energy sources to maintain manufacturing, light up their cities, or even provide heating so they don't FREEZE TO DEATH!

Edited October 26, 2017 by TimTang

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

The activists run round crying disaster at all turns, but the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change doesn't support their claims.

 

The IPCC acknowledges: "Arctic sea-ice extent has decreased by 2.9% per decade over the 1978-1996 period; sea ice has thinned, and there are now more melt days per summer. Sea-ice extent in the Nordic seas has decreased by 30% over the past 130 years."

 

It then continues: "It is not yet clear whether changes in sea ice of the past few decades are linked to a natural cycle in climate variability or have resulted explicitly from global warming."

 

Of course, yelling "denier" at everyone is much easier for the activists than actually doing some research....

First off, do you realize that the year is 2017? So, 1996 is 21 years in the past. And warming has accelerated a lot since then. Second, your citation uses one of the usual misleading tropes of denialists: citing extent of the ice but not volume. It's like saying a 9 inch crepe and 9 inch birthday cake are the some size because the tops have the same surface area. I've got news for you: Arctic sea ice has gotten a whole lot thinner.

And another trick you used is cherry-picking the years. It just so happens that 1996 was a big rebound year for sea ice. Here's a graph that shows the decine in arctic sea ice from 1979 to 2015.

[boomerangutang]

16 hours ago, digger70 said:

Ice age phenomenon is an about every 100,000 year cycle from Cold to Warm  &  Warm to Cold,,,,Guess what Sherlock,,,,,  It's Getting a bit Warmer now.Don't worry it will cool down again a bit but we won't see that unless you want to hang around for an other 100,000 years.   

Here we go again,  having to (try to) show the difference between 200 years and 200,000 years  (hint: you take away 3 zeros).  It's the difference between the length of a cue stick to the width of a city.  Deniers can't see it, but their efforts to appear smart are showing them to be daft.

 

 If you were a doctor, and were asked about a particular cancer outbreak in a nearby school,  would you then go and talk about the history of cancer from cave man times, including cancers in mammals and reptiles? 

 

I don't think so.  Because all the while you're giving a long dissertation about the history of cancer on earth, kids at the school are getting sicker and dying.

[Srikcir]

18 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change doesn't support their claims.

Nor from your quotes does it deny the claims.

[RickBradford]

7 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Nor from your quotes does it deny the claims.

Exactly. It says, in effect, that we  don't yet know enough to decide one way or the other.

 

But you'd never know that from the hysterical media, who keep banging on about 'Arctic death spirals' and the supposed extinction of those cuddly polar bears (which are actually doing very well at the moment).

 

That's activism, not science.