Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[nausea]

Airstrip one it is then.

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Who wants to live in a country where unelected men and women acting on behalf of a foreign parliament can carry out raids on a business in London because they feel like it?

 

https://uk.news.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrP4nYcC89aZA4AGAVLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTE0cGs5cThkBGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVUlVS0MwMV8xBHNlYwNzYw--?p=the+recklessly+provocative+Murdoch+office+raids&fr=yfp-t&fr2=cosmos

This is the Same paper that blames Labour for the current NHS crisis https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/11/80-year-old-man-waited-23-hours-ambulance-dying-hospital-family/

 

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I started to watch and then stopped, I can't watch anything on any subject that is so anti-everything apart from what they are preaching - does nobody present balanced objective arguments any longer.

Of course it’s biased, it one side of the argument. Though I think it’s useful for people to understand the opposing point of veiw. I would be quite willing to watch  a similar video from the remain side. Otherwise it’s impossible to make a balanced decision, as Is obvious with both the remain and Brexit entrenched sides here on T.V.

[aright]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

This is the Same paper that blames Labour for the current NHS crisis https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/11/80-year-old-man-waited-23-hours-ambulance-dying-hospital-family/

 

and????

[CG1 Blue]

27 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Sgt Rock was a poster on TVF sometime back and he was the arch Brexiteer, his following was large and loyal. He tried to be a thug, a real parade ground Sgt and he actually knew quite a bit about the EU et al, like many Brexiteers his inability to accept any points whatsoever let he done, as did his style. His big thing was Deutchse Bank which he was certain was going to collapse last March and that would be the catalyst for the EU to implode. I don't know what happened, dead from high blood pressure I imagine.

Ah ok.  Deutsche Bank should have collapsed by now, but is clearly being propped up.

 

Sgt Rock was half right.  But he didn't account for Merkel keeping DB on a life support machine (forever if necessary), to prevent it being the catalyst to an EU collapse.

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, Orac said:

 

I watched about 15mins and was about to give up the will to live. Seems to be made up of old newsreel, ominous music, misrepresented Churchill quotes and a claim that the whole idea was a Hitler plot.

When they wheeled on Norris McWhirter who died in 2004 I thought it was a bit odd so had a check and it turns out this whole documentary is from 2004 so not exactly current information but noteworthy that they were still banging on then about the UK being forced to join the euro.


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Who’s suggesting that we were forced to join the E.U.? It’s a fact that the British people were deceived, many would say conned into joining what we were led,to beleive was a trading group in 1975. I for one was not aware that it would transform into the monster, that is now the so called E.U.

As for when the video was made, it’s irrelevant. How many of the predictions,have now been proven to be true.That’s what you should be addressing.

[Orac]

Who’s suggesting that we were forced to join the E.U.? It’s a fact that the British people were deceived, many would say conned into joining what we were led,to beleive was a trading group in 1975. I for one was not aware that it would transform into the monster, that is now the so called E.U.
As for when the video was made, it’s irrelevant. How many of the predictions,have now been proven to be true.That’s what you should be addressing.

I never mentioned being forced to join the EU, my post refers to the documentary stating we would be forced to join the euro (along with signing up for the EU army and handing over our foreign exchange and gold reserves).

Since these things haven’t happened maybe you could point us to some predictions it did get right since I really could not force myself to watch any more of it.


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[CG1 Blue]

28 minutes ago, tebee said:

42 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

....., dead from high blood pressure I imagine.

A fate to be suffered by many Brexiters, I suspect!

I'm not sure why you think that. The UK voted Leave, and in less than a year we'll be legally out of the EU. More and more remainers are shifting to the other end of the see-saw, and just want to get behind the country and get on with it.

 

The hard remainers are becoming a dying breed now, and increasingly angry.  They are the ones who ought to keep an eye on their blood pressure. Or better still they should let it go, and join us in our great escape!

[nontabury]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ah ok.  Deutsche Bank should have collapsed by now, but is clearly being propped up.

 

Sgt Rock was half right.  But he didn't account for Merkel keeping DB on a life support machine (forever if necessary), to prevent it being the catalyst to an EU collapse.

The recently chief executive of DB, Britain John Cryon, who had been battling other members of the board, in trying to slim down the numbers of overpaid staff,

recently said that reports that hundred of their U.K staff would be made redundant due to Brexit, was way over the top, saying that in his view,the figure would be nearer 40 redundancies.

[simoh1490]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm not sure why you think that. The UK voted Leave, and in less than a year we'll be legally out of the EU. More and more remainers are shifting to the other end of the see-saw, and just want to get behind the country and get on with it.

 

The hard remainers are becoming a dying breed now, and increasingly angry.  They are the ones who ought to keep an eye on their blood pressure. Or better still they should let it go, and join us in our great escape!

Oooo, an escape, an adventure, can we go away somewhere, Europe perhaps? 

[evadgib]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Why are our exports down even with a weaker pound? This does not bode well

Official figures show that UK exports are increasing and research suggests the demand for UK goods and services will double by 2030.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more-good-news-for-british-businesses-as-exports-growth-continues

[ravip]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I started to watch and then stopped, I can't watch anything on any subject that is so anti-everything apart from what they are preaching - does nobody present balanced objective arguments any longer.

The TVF is really not the place to look for it ( balanced objective arguments)!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

Cheers Grouse..Blair was right on most things..ahem..see what you think about Govanhill on your Glasgow day out.
Ps..when are you heading back to the UK?

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After the Edinburgh Fringe

[simoh1490]

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender":

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/12/bid-stop-brexit-remainers-launch-1m-campaign-keep-uk-europe/

[CG1 Blue]

15 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

I never mentioned being forced to join the EU, my post refers to the documentary stating we would be forced to join the euro (along with signing up for the EU army and handing over our foreign exchange and gold reserves).

Since these things haven’t happened maybe you could point us to some predictions it did get right since I really could not force myself to watch any more of it.


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Not sure if you read / heard Juncker's State of the Union speech in Sep 2017. He basically said the plan is for universal membership of the Eurozone and Schengen, and close cooperation on defence. Here's a snippet from Juncker:

 

"I think the time has come to make foreign policy decisions in certain cases by a qualified majority"

 

So the predictions were pretty good.

 

 

 

 

[malagateddy]

Correct . that is the British spirit

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[Orac]

 
Not sure if you read / heard Juncker's State of the Union speech in Sep 2017. He basically said the plan is for universal membership of the Eurozone and Schengen, and close cooperation on defence. Here's a snippet from Juncker:
 
"I think the time has come to make foreign policy decisions in certain cases by a qualified majority"
 
So the predictions were pretty good.
 
 
 
 

Juncker can say what he likes but it does not mean he can achieve these things, certainly not before his term ends next year with the disruption that Brexit is causing.

The UK has a clear opt out from the Euro which can only be removed/replaced with agreement from the U.K. parliament.


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[CG1 Blue]

19 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Oooo, an escape, an adventure, can we go away somewhere, Europe perhaps? 

I'm afraid not.  Because according to many younger Remain voters we won't be allowed to go on holiday in Europe once we've left the EU.

[simoh1490]

14 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm afraid not.  Because according to many younger Remain voters we won't be allowed to go on holiday in Europe once we've left the EU.

That's such a shame, Gare du Nord is lovely this time of the year.

[CG1 Blue]

26 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

Juncker can say what he likes but it does not mean he can achieve these things, certainly not before his term ends next year with the disruption that Brexit is causing.

The UK has a clear opt out from the Euro which can only be removed/replaced with agreement from the U.K. parliament.


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The UK has already opted out of the Euro - by leaving the EU

[Orac]

The UK has already opted out of the Euro - by leaving the EU

We were already opted out of EMU from the Maastricht Treaty so a bit ridiculous to claim this as a victory for Brexit.


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[tebee]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm not sure why you think that. The UK voted Leave, and in less than a year we'll be legally out of the EU. More and more remainers are shifting to the other end of the see-saw, and just want to get behind the country and get on with it.

 

The hard remainers are becoming a dying breed now, and increasingly angry.  They are the ones who ought to keep an eye on their blood pressure. Or better still they should let it go, and join us in our great escape!

Oddly enough, although I'm a committed remainer, I'm more sad than angry now.

 

The Brexit we are heading for is much nearer to remaining that anything that was ever promised on the leave side - it's just going to be a bad version of EU membership. May and the rest of her team are such useless negotiators that all the red lines are dissolving before our eyes. Lack of any  ideas on our side just means we capitulate to the EU time after time.

 

So I'm sad that the pyrrhic victory of leaving the EU will leave the country worse off with no benefit. I still would prefer we stay, but if we don't so be it.    

[CG1 Blue]

29 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

We were already opted out of EMU from the Maastricht Treaty so a bit ridiculous to claim this as a victory for Brexit.


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The feeling is that the EU will force all member states into the Euro at some stage, whatever it takes. By leaving the EU we are safe from that fate.

[Orac]

The feeling is that the EU will force all member states into the Euro at some stage, whatever it takes. By leaving the EU we are safe from that fate.

My apologies, I forgot about “The Feeling”.


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[simoh1490]

I'm not angry either, I'm sad at the lack of sensible decision making and the failed logic that underpins it all. Mostly I'm sad I think that nobody has been able to set out a non-agressive persuasive argument that has been truly convincing and has made sense, in light of all the negatives that exist.

 

I'm also quite disturbed by this democracy thingy - folks keep saying that 52% to 48% is the democratic result which must be supported. I don't agree at all, I think that result suggests the wrong question was asked, rephrase the question or ask a different question. For something to be democratic in more than name only the result needs to be 80/20 or 90/10, then the result will have the support of the people and it will be successful, as things stand this will fail one way or the other, sooner or later.

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The feeling is that the EU will force all member states into the Euro at some stage, whatever it takes. By leaving the EU we are safe from that fate.

By leaving the EU we have lost our opt-out when we rejoin.

[CG1 Blue]

27 minutes ago, tebee said:

Oddly enough, although I'm a committed remainer, I'm more sad than angry now.

 

The Brexit we are heading for is much nearer to remaining that anything that was ever promised on the leave side - it's just going to be a bad version of EU membership. May and the rest of her team are such useless negotiators that all the red lines are dissolving before our eyes. Lack of any  ideas on our side just means we capitulate to the EU time after time.

 

So I'm sad that the pyrrhic victory of leaving the EU will leave the country worse off with no benefit. I still would prefer we stay, but if we don't so be it.    

I agree the negotiation has been a bit pathetic from the UK side.  But I think once we're officially out we'll be in a position to tweak the terms over the coming years and get to where we want to be. 

[evadgib]

Following a highly competitive recruitment process, the Department for International Trade (DIT) today (Thursday 12 April) appoints John Mahon as the UK’s first Director General for Exports. Reporting to the Permanent Secretary, John will lead the implementation of the government’s emerging Export Strategy as the UK prepares to leave the European Union.

A former Head of Barclays Corporate Bank, John brings a strong track record to DIT and is being hailed across Whitehall as a key hire. His appointment is the latest step in a major capability-building programme underway at DIT, across exports and investment promotion and the trade policy and negotiation businesses.

The new Director General for Exports is at the heart of the government’s post-Brexit trading plan, and is tasked with ensuring that new and existing exporters can access the right financial, practical and promotional support to sell overseas.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/city-chief-appointed-to-lead-uk-export-drive

[aright]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I'm not angry either, I'm sad at the lack of sensible decision making and the failed logic that underpins it all. Mostly I'm sad I think that nobody has been able to set out a non-agressive persuasive argument that has been truly convincing and has made sense, in light of all the negatives that exist.

 

I'm also quite disturbed by this democracy thingy - folks keep saying that 52% to 48% is the democratic result which must be supported. I don't agree at all, I think that result suggests the wrong question was asked, rephrase the question or ask a different question. For something to be democratic in more than name only the result needs to be 80/20 or 90/10, then the result will have the support of the people and it will be successful, as things stand this will fail one way or the other, sooner or later.

Your argument is hardly consistent. Doing nothing after the referendum would have appeased the minority 48% who voted remain at the expense of the majority 52% who voted to leave. The outcome would have been determined by the minority. Is that your definition of democracy?

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, aright said:

Your argument is hardly consistent. Doing nothing after the referendum would have appeased the minority 48% who voted remain at the expense of the majority 52% who voted to leave. The outcome would have been determined by the minority. Is that your definition of democracy?

The wrong question was asked, the margin is far too small for it to be a successful vote, what's inconsistent about that simple observation!