Thai young adults are supposed to send money to their parents. Exploitative idea?

[khunPer]

On 4/1/2018 at 7:14 PM, andux said:

Any thoughts about this? What are the real motivations here? Are most families taking advantage of the situation to enjoy an early retirement with little effort? Is this actually abusive behavior from parents, whose children will then repeat it with their own children, and so on until someone breaks the cycle?

You're not the only one wondering about this, me too , but you will in time find that it's the difference in culture, which however seem to be slowly changing, but very slow in rural farming districts.

 

It's just like in our "civilized" home countries in old time, where children was a way to better life-style, and kind off retirement pension. Children was an investment, and like any business investment, the investment had to pay off, plus a dividend.

 

In my Scandinavian home country – and that's probably not that different from many other countries – children in low income farmer, or farm-worker, families, would be sent out to work. 100+ years ago most people lived in the country side. We called it "serve" (Danish: tjene), where young boys would be send out working in farms, they could even be herding, and girls working in house as young maids; often on one-year contracts, and the (small) salary paid to directly the parents; the kids would have bed and food, and therefore needed no or little only cash. And before the days of public social security and government pension, it was the children that should take care of their parents, and grand parents; and in case of no children folks were depending of their local neighborhood network.

 

In my home country well off farmers with large estates, would have several worker families living there, and also space for some singles, that could be anything from old people with no relatives or network, or the village-fool that couldn't help much, but on the other hand didn't demand anything but bed and little food; kind of well-off people's support to the community. When I moved from Copenhagen to live with a girlfriend in the country side just outside the capital in the mid 1970'ies, our big farm neighbor was still something like that, and after 30-years in the area I learned a lot from the natives about how is was in "old time", not that long ago.

 

After now being living about 15-years in Thailand, and wondering and asking questions, it seem pretty much "same-same but different"; so remembering how my home country once was, it's not that difficult to understand. I've seen girls been taking out of school after P6 (similar to Year 7 in US) and send out to "serve"; could be working as nanny or young maid, for a small salary, which a few years back was around 3,500 baht a month for a 13-year old to 16-year old, sending the money home apart from for example 500 baht as pocket money. Even mature kids – some having their own child/children taken care of by their family back home in the village – would work in a factory or somewhere else for 6,000 baht a month then, now around 9,000 baht or little more a month, sending a major part home to parents, and sometime also as support for a child or more. And I've also experience better of Thais taking care of singles, without a network.

 

Looked through our contemporary Western eyes it seems wrong, but turning the time back about 75 to 100 years in our home country, it was quite similar. We Westerners feel especially bad when it seem like the family spend the youngster's hard worked for money for amusement, or drinking; and furthermore when notice the cultural gap where boys are worth (a lot) more than girls, so a little girl shall work hard, so the bigger brother can have a motorbike, and sometimes a relaxed life; or as I've experienced it, where the sister is working, so the brother can have high-school and later education, as there's not enough fund for both.

 

To understand the difference between boys and girls, there's a Thai saying that in English sounds pretty much like: »When a child is born, and it's a boy, it's like a present sent from Heaven; but if it's a girl, it's like someone placed the loo in front of the house.«

 

The book "My Name Lon, you like me?" gives almost horror examples about the working girl and her lazy family, which supposedly should be true. The book also includes numerous quotes, but seem today little historical (around the millennium), as it partly seem already changed.

 

Another version of the kids and money is the "sin sot", money paid in compensation for a girl to be bride. I've been told that Thai families consider it as "milk money", payment for raising a girl, and at the same time it's used to show that the future husband can take care of a family; which might include helping his bride's family. That's very different from many a Western country, and our Western-way-of-thinking; where I originates from, the young blonde girls must have been extremely ugly in older time, as their parents would pay men a huge dowry to take them away from the house...

 

Even sin sot may not be needed and/or kept by a bride's family today, the tradition live on – just like the bride's father is expected to pay for the wedding, and is supposed to give some big gift, in our Western culture – it has to do with "make face", to show status and wealth, and the higher social level, the higher sin sot; we've read in the Thai news about sin sot up to 100 million baht for a young celebrity lady, for example Tata Young.

 

I see changes coming, and that's more in middle class than among peasants, where people that can afford it now save up for a retirement pension, and don't expect to be funded in their otium by their kids. However, it's still part of a Thai school education to teach children how to show respect for mum and dad, and how to thank mum and dad for boarding, and how to care for mum and day when they get old.

 

PS: Your post however makes me think about, if I should begin calculating a sin sot sum to recover my "investment" in my daughters (relative expensive) school – and upcoming education – my future might then become little brighter in spite of low government retirement pension, and declining currency exchange rate risk...

Edited April 17, 2018 by khunPer

[jacko45k]

There is the other side of the coin where elderly and infirmed are left to rot by their kids who work away. Good and bad everywhere. The Thai system is just the way it has always been done in teh abscence of a pension system.

[zzidenn]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:16 AM, dickjones2018 said:

thai girls are sending money , I don't know of any thai men doing this, they use it for their own rum, girls, hookers, massages & gambling...

 

girls somehow got brainwashed that they are the sole money sender even they had it bad

thai men send money to their parents too. its exactly the same.

[CGW]

A filial society is generally readily adopted by "governments" means they don't have to do anything.

Some of it is good, Thailand tends to have a lot who abuse the concept!

[Straight8]

I don't agree with it also, not one bit in most instances, though I'd image there are some genuine cases where the parents would need some help!!

[Elkski]

I considered posting a new thread and may do so anyway.  I did search and read many threads. A Thread a from 2014 even has someone post and claim that just asking this type of question is Thai bashing.. Bring that on!!!.

I posted here a couple pages back.    I am still concerned enough about this issue to consider stopping this relationship with this super nice Thai woman.   I have worked hard and scrimped and saved to be able to consider  retirement a bit earlier than the normal 65 in USA.  Although I am not so flush with funds that I don't have to budget and plan things in case I live for 35- years.

As in the previous post this woman has 2 brothers and a sister.  One brother is a monk the other a drunken gambler..who operates heavy equipment when there is work he isn't in liver failure treatment. For whatever reason the burden of supporting mom falls on this 41 year old Thai woman.  She works real hard 6 days a week and lives in a BKK fan room with a roomate who sleeps on the floor..  She has had the same job and room for 17 years and only been late 1 day.   She paid to build a new family house some 15 years ago.  her died about 14 years ago and he told her she was the special one. I guess special included work hard and be a good girl and not go out at night. she seems to have obeyed this 100%. This gal has barely 3k USD in savings.  I think this prevented her from getting a tourist visa which may end up having a drastic effect on her future plans and or dreams.   I am not one to jump in with a K1 visa before we each visit each others parents,  home,  and country.  This woman is very anti drinking but yet I feel by her sending mom money she is really paying for brothers #2 to have money for drink and gambling and drink for sister and mom to some  extent.  I only visited mom and sister so far ,at songkran they were quite drunk. I on the other hand was given a very harsh look from wanting a cold beer.   It seems the village elders just drink and chew the red stuff all day long.  Mom does have a farm to tend to and like 9 buffalo.  I should add that many of the village buffalo were seen grazing on moms land.  I see this as my friend supporting many in the village as mom should be charging a grazing fee but I assume she is not.    My concern is that if I was to enter the picture I would be expected to step up if say mom or perhaps some other family member needed drastic medical assistance.  I have even seen my friend send 20k baht to a cousin who got into trouble in an accident when he had not paid up his insurance. I was't asked to help but a bit of disappointment was implied weeks later.  I replied that if my own brother didn't pay his car insurance i wouldn't help him.

 I have been researching Thai culture for 3 years now and understand this support for mom  but many women  I have met only send 3-4k baht to mom. like 10-20% not 50%.   But I think my friend has sent more like 50% for the past 17 years.   When we talk about this subject it ends up in tears.  as it did yesterday.

It started by me asking how mom is?  she is fine but I worry she works to hard.. I asked if she is in pain? No. is she going hungry? no.   I asked if my friend won the lottery how could she make mom happier? she could answer me./  I said would you buy her a nice condo in BKK..  no way would mom like city life.  I asked would she buy maids  to cook and clean and farm so mom could sit in bed or a chair all day... no   She is right I don't understand this thinking. 

 

I have read some threads where foreign men say this is a Run forest Run situation.    I just don't see how I can budget for all of this and don't feel I should have to...  I guess it is time for me to pose some hypothetical financial or medical situations and ask directly what would be expected of me.    Overall I would say I am not  generous with my money person. 

I assume a monk has no money to contribute... Sister rather have a car and drink than pay.. in fact i say my friend give sister money at Songkran.  Mom also seem to take children of bar girls under her wings.. so I feel my friend has supported many village people.   but i feel she has sacrificed almost all hope of her dream. She has given up hope for children at 41.  She never goes out at night all her life. 

 

I'm not sure what I am asking..  Sure I have other prospects (older, younger , some retired with pension and healthcare and farms so that  I could live and not spend a dime.   I am 58 this gal 41 we met outside of Emporium Jan 2018 at the xmas display.  

Edited January 7, 2019 by Elkski
a few typo's mostly

[murraynz]

this is a good and fairly typical post...describing how many many thai families live...

YOU  have made sacrifices to enable a comfortable retirement for yourself...

please dont jepardise that, by handing out money to thai families--- THEY WONT GIVE YOU ANY MORE RESPECT, once they have your money....

its ok to be generous with your thai lady--and a little to mamma ONLY.. but giving handouts to family is a definite no no....

once your money is gone---NONE  of them will want you....

[Been there done that]

On 4/17/2018 at 9:22 AM, sanemax said:

Its Thai law that the Children MUST support their Parents

????????????????????

[NCC1701A]

I see my Thai girlfriend's mother about twice a year and she looks at me like I am Jesus Christ, her own personal savior. 

[NCC1701A]

22 hours ago, Elkski said:

I am 58

wow you are really young, why not just party with 28 year olds? 

 

you can control costs and walk away. you can get married when you turn 65. 

 

i am an American. I have sat at the dinner table with the Thai family members that you have zero in common with. It is natural to want to help everyone, but these people all have serious issues you cannot fix. 

[Elkski]

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

wow you are really young, why not just party with 28 year olds? 

 

you can control costs and walk away. you can get married when you turn 65. 

 

i am an American. I have sat at the dinner table with the Thai family members that you have zero in common with. It is natural to want to help everyone, but these people all have serious issues you cannot fix. 

NCC,. I like most of your posts.  

I have thought about the.. waiting till 65 for a serious thing.  I'm not rushing. 

 

I basically told this gal that I will take care my lover and a bit fir mom.  But now it's never else and I won't do anything that puts my 35 yr planned life line at risk.   I told her to ask her family about this and get back to me.   I won't be saving any if her family from jail if they do something stupid.    I told this  Thai to tell her drinking gambling worthless brother that his actions have a far reaching effect and may prevent his sister From her Cinderella story and dreams of living in USA.   There are 100 other nice Thai and Vietnam women waiting for me.   

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

On 4/2/2018 at 12:14 AM, andux said:

Any thoughts about this? What are the real motivations here? Are most families taking advantage of the situation to enjoy an early retirement with little effort? Is this actually abusive behavior from parents, whose children will then repeat it with their own children, and so on until someone breaks the cycle?

My step daughter tells me she intends to send me part of her wages, as I have paid for her high-school and university expenses.

I see nothing wrong with Thai children repaying their parents, it makes a nice change from western children who take from their parents all their lives.

 

Just because it's different to your culture, doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just different.

And you must like some of the differences or you wouldn't be here.

[Elkski]

I think it is a good thing that children support their parents.  I do wonder when this tradition began? Perhaps with children moving away from the farms and making so much more money in big cities?  Perhaps with the media exposure where advertising  can brainwash everyone so that what is a good life now includes a phone, aircon, car, etc.   I wonder how many of these parents supported their parents?   What bothers me is when its not even support from all siblings,  1 of 4 children are the main supporter and they have a very poor life as a result while other siblings drink and gamble but dont have money to support mom.  

 

[marcusarelus]

I used to have a business writing CV's for Thai college graduates.  They don't work while in school.  Lazy, lazy, lazy and almost impossible to write a decent resume because their first job is after college graduation.  I started working at 14 years and my parents were well off but wanted me to get used to working for my money.  Different for the Thai farm folk. 

[Been there done that]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

I think it is a good thing that children support their parents.  I do wonder when this tradition began? Perhaps with children moving away from the farms and making so much more money in big cities?  Perhaps with the media exposure where advertising  can brainwash everyone so that what is a good life now includes a phone, aircon, car, etc.   I wonder how many of these parents supported their parents?   What bothers me is when its not even support from all siblings,  1 of 4 children are the main supporter and they have a very poor life as a result while other siblings drink and gamble but dont have money to support mom.  

 

Thats when the farang comes in the picture. We always hook up with the most caring daughter in the family. ????

[Gracas]

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

I wonder how many of these parents supported their parents?

This is a very good questions.

I have heard from many Thai ladies how they must support their family, although I have NEVER heard of the older generation supporting their family. This raises the question, How far back did the lazy generation start ?

[Gracas]

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

What bothers me is when its not even support from all siblings,  1 of 4 children are the main supporter and they have a very poor life as a result while other siblings drink and gamble but dont have money to support mom.  

The children are like puppies or kittens, there is always 'the pick of the litter'. This is usually the one that finds the farang.

[KhunFred]

OF COURSE, it's "exploitative"....it is also a cultural thing that will not change overnight or over decades. It will change when Thailand has protection for the aged, as many other countries do. The elites have always been highly resistant to any such protective measures. Culture trumps necessity in Thailand and many other places.