TM30 explained for landlords and tenants

[kannot]

1 hour ago, sam neuts said:

One by one and no hurry as I have other things I am doing . But, I will answer.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/print/436133/

 

Not my only source but interesting as it involves Thai Visa

 

However, late last week, a senior Immigration Bureau official in Bangkok offered a different interpretation.

Pol Col Voravat Amornvivat told Thaivisa that he wanted to reassure the expat community. "Making all foreigners in Thailand carry their original passports with them would be very difficult," he said. "It's about being reasonable and using common sense."

He said tourists would not have to carry their original passports and expats could use a Thai driving licence if they have one, or a photocopy of their passport as a form of identification.

[VBF]

23 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

What is false?

 

Both stories I copied and posted were in the media and on TV

If you think that automatically makes them true, you are naive in the extreme! The media loves stories containing bad news and some of it seems to take the attitude "don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story"

[anchadian]

Again, if you are staying at your girlfriend's property, how does she know that she has to submit a TM30 to immigration?  She probably hasn't even heard of a TM30.

[GreasyFingers]

I had a home visit from Phetchabun 2 days ago. The managers of the property who live onsite as well were not asked about a TM30 even though I had returned to Thailand about 2 months previously.

I was definitely not asked as it is not my responsibility. Was not even asked about a new TM28 after being out of the country. A 90 day report had also been completed since my return.

No need for everyone to get their knickers in a knot.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Again, if you are staying at your girlfriend's property, how does she know that she has to submit a TM30 to immigration?  She probably hasn't even heard of a TM30.

Ignorantia juris non excusat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat

Edited June 7, 2018 by jackdd

[sam neuts]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Even if one remains in the same province?

 

That is a difficult one because I actually did it, and they gave it to me so I guess it was correct. But, who knows?

 

I had already arrived in Thailand and went to my home. Got the TM30 the following morning.

 

within a couple of days i went to a hotel for 3 days and they had submitted a TM30 during my stay.

 

Officially when I go back home I had no TM30 because my address had changed during my stay at the hotel, and my immigration office issued another.

 

Maybe  someone other than me would like to check.

 

It cant just be the word of an officer working in the immigration office because that story changes daily.

[anchadian]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

Ignorantia juris non excusat

Quid ius?

 

[sam neuts]

3 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

I had a home visit from Phetchabun 2 days ago. The managers of the property who live onsite as well were not asked about a TM30 even though I had returned to Thailand about 2 months previously.

I was definitely not asked as it is not my responsibility. Was not even asked about a new TM28 after being out of the country. A 90 day report had also been completed since my return.

No need for everyone to get their knickers in a knot.

I agree no need to get excited. It is just a discussion

[KhunFred]

Still ignored all over Thailand. I stayed at my girlfriend's apartment in Bangkok on numerous occasions and when I mentioned the requirement, she thought I was crazy. She made it very clear that she had no intention of reporting anything to the police. She also put rooms on her ID when we were traveling. She still thinks that I have misunderstood the law. Thais seem to think that because they are scofflaws that we farangs can afford to be the same way. 

[The Deerhunter]

17 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

As you have read his other thread already, you certainly noticed he never give any source, any name or any link. He just copy other articles from Facebook posts, regardless of theem being news or rumour. 

 

There are many things false in his OP of this thread. By example :

> A TM30 is required to be completed within 24 hours of arrival at whichever building a foreigner is staying in. This applies to ALL foreigners regardless of, if they are visiting Thailand for a short holiday, or if they are living here more permanently.

False. Jomtien refuses TM30 of people living here on Retirement extension. (They refused mine)

> They are now asking for your TM30 when you report to immigration for your 90 day report, which obviously only applies to long stay visitors. 

False again. I made many 90-Days reports without any TM30

> Remember foreigners should carry their passport at all times according to Thai Law. 

False again. Many articles and speeches of high ranked Police officers on this subject. An official ID such as a Thai Driving Licence is enough.

 

 

 

Sri Racha, like Jomtien is also in Chonburi province.  They have refused TM 30s from me several times when renewing my long stay. "Why? Have you moved house in the last year?"  "No? Then we don't need it."  I suspect busy immigration offices try to cut red tape to save work and less busy places try to implement the most complex interpretations to justify their job.

[luckyluke]

Every experience is interesting to read, so are

the numerous declarations from officials.

 

However in my opinion no guidance should be given, as nothing can be considered as gospel truth.

[Kerryd]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Ignorantia juris non excusat

 

4 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Quid ius?

Illa lex

[mlmcleod]

20 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

The point of all of this is what? when they can have records going back decades of expats living at the same address why is it necessary, after completing an arrival card with the address on  (yet again) to turn up within 24 hours and tell them all over again? It is rather annoying that many of us have to report our address over and over which can be a house or condo we paid for, and where we have been for years without moving. IMO it's madness, but they must have a valid reason for suddenly implementing it over the past year or so. Got fined today for not doing it and was told have to redo every time you re enter the kingdom, within 24 hours with a weeks grace.

Anyone know how to report it online?

The reason they track this is to catch the unwary and demand a fine!  A receipt is not generally given for the fine!  We learned this the hard way.

Any paperwork creates new jobs for the Immigration Department.  The head of the office is probably ranked based on how many people he has working for him. The same as any military style bureaucracy.

Online reporting is not available to the public.  So be prepared to take a long trip to the nearest immigration office. 

 

I think that any ex-pat should know that Immigration is designed to maximize returns and not service!

[KhunFred]

My land lady,  here in Jomtien, told me this month that I needed to bring my passport to the office to renew my lease, since I was moving upstairs to a new condo owned by a French national. She told me that she needed to report it to Immigration. In three years, she has never asked for this before, so she must have been contacted by IO. In the past, her attitude toward ANY law enforcement issue, including immigration, was that all problems could be solved by 500 baht given to the officer who is giving you a problem. Obviously, even the scofflaws are getting into line. ?

[The Deerhunter]

8 hours ago, JAS21 said:

My son, wife and two children will shortly be here for three days and two nights and will probable never visit Thailand again ... we are in Nonthaburi ... do we need to inform anyone?? They will stay at our home ... Their passports will be British and Spanish ...Will they need to give our address to Immigration at arrivals...I assume that they will get a VOA here  ...they are heading for The UK

Theoretically, yes it applies to you as outlined by the OP.  How you respond to this is up to you. Little info is available as to how the private person a long way from an immigration office (as we are) should respond to this.  Perhaps your nearest Immigration office can tell you what they require from you. Your local police will likely not want to know.  No one will advise you to just do nothing and take your chances but I guess many people do just that.

[KhunFred]

21 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Sri Racha, like Jomtien is also in Chonburi province.  They have refused TM 30s from me several times when renewing my long stay. "Why? Have you moved house in the last year?"  "No? Then we don't need it."  I suspect busy immigration offices try to cut red tape to save work and less busy places try to implement the most complex interpretations to justify their job.

Ditto on this. I did my 90 day only last week and they did not ask for a TM-30.

[sam neuts]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Every experience is interesting to read, so are

the numerous declarations from officials.

 

However in my opinion no guidance should be given, as nothing can be considered as gospel truth.

Fully agreed.

 

I think it is established that some people have experienced things differently from others, and that they should only follow the law as it is relayed to them by whichever official they are dealing with at the time.

 

Just bear in mind that these laws exist or the discussion would not have had people saying "YES i needed a TM30"

 

Laws are frequently changed and officials will all give you different information.

 

If this discussion doesn't exhaust itself over the next couple of weeks.

 

I will post the latest information I have.

 

But, as the laws are flexible in Thailand you will never know exactly what you should be doing, and when.

 

 

[Sydneyboy1]

2 hours ago, sam neuts said:

Always better to know you are living legally even if the laws aren't to your liking.

 

I understand this hasn't applied to everyone which is why it is a problem. 

 

We are only trying to raise awareness and hopefully a few will avoid having problems in the future.

You are always saying "WE" who is we? 

[sam neuts]

35 minutes ago, VBF said:

If you think that automatically makes them true, you are naive in the extreme! The media loves stories containing bad news and some of it seems to take the attitude "don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story"

I am not naive to the media and only posted the reports to show one officer stating one thing. Another officer stating another.

The point is there is no real clarity.

[VBF]

Just now, sam neuts said:

I am not naive to the media and only posted the reports to show one officer stating one thing. Another officer stating another.

The point is there is no real clarity.

Agree with that part for sure! 

[sam neuts]

1 minute ago, Sydneyboy1 said:

You are always saying "WE" who is we? 

There are a few of us involved in researching some interesting topics in Thailand in relation to Tourism and many associated issues.

[BigT73]

2 hours ago, sandrabbit said:

it's also 4 years old and 2 police generals have gone on record since saying that a driving licence is acceptable.

I wonder that too as your driving license contains your passport No. which was confirmed by immigration and dmv during the original process.  I just carry my DL and copy TM6 as this has my passport number matching my DL and my due departure date stamp. im on metv.

[Sydneyboy1]

3 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

There are a few of us involved in researching some interesting topics in Thailand in relation to Tourism and many associated issues.

So you are GROUP of trolls.  Trying to whip up confusion on TVF. Seems you are the spokesman.  Maybe a 1 man group. 

[VBF]

6 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

I wonder that too as your driving license contains your passport No. which was confirmed by immigration and dmv during the original process.  I just carry my DL and copy TM6 as this has my passport number matching my DL and my due departure date stamp. im on metv.

I don't have a Thai DL so tend to take a photo of my PP photo page, Visa page and TM6 and if i extend my visa, a photo of the stamp - then they're all in my phone, plus i have a paper copy of the PP in my wallet.

However...I've never been stopped yet so hopefully........

Edited June 7, 2018 by VBF

[KhunFred]

15 minutes ago, mlmcleod said:

The reason they track this is to catch the unwary and demand a fine!  A receipt is not generally given for the fine!  We learned this the hard way.

Any paperwork creates new jobs for the Immigration Department.  The head of the office is probably ranked based on how many people he has working for him. The same as any military style bureaucracy.

Online reporting is not available to the public.  So be prepared to take a long trip to the nearest immigration office. 

 

I think that any ex-pat should know that Immigration is designed to maximize returns and not service!

The new animated cartoon on the Chonburi Immigration site is absolutely hilarious. Everyone needs to watch it if you need a laugh. We're going to track down all these terrorist bombers by requiring all those renting rooms to the public to file TM-30 reports.  Yep, no doubt that terrorist bombers are on their last legs here in LOS. ?

[sam neuts]

2 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

I wonder that too as your driving license contains your passport No. which was confirmed by immigration and dmv during the original process.  I just carry my DL and copy TM6 as this has my passport number matching my DL and my due departure date stamp. im on metv.

Just because a law is either not enforced, or visibly ignored, it doesn't mean the law has been removed from existence.

 

Time will tell how many people end up with TM30 and if the Passport law is changed or not.

 

Your own counties government website often has useful information on it with regards to many specific countries and their advice.

 

I am only telling people to take a look at the situation rather than ignoring it.

[sam neuts]

4 minutes ago, Sydneyboy1 said:

So you are GROUP of trolls.  Trying to whip up confusion on TVF. Seems you are the spokesman.  Maybe a 1 man group. 

Definitely not trolls as far as I know. We are spending money on research, and time preparing lots of useful information. If people don't want to read it. I have no objection.

The confusion is from the law, not from us.

[chickenrunCM]

TM 30 must be done by landlord, foreigner is not responsible for TM30. As you can´t own any land you cannot own a property, only a Condo, where the condo management has to do it. It is clear written in the law, how is responsible

[Kerryd]

Immigration Act

In the name of his Mejesty King Bhumibol Enacted on the 24Th of February B.E. 2522 The 34Th year of the present reign

Wherease it is deemed proper to revise the Law on immigration

Section 1 : This Act shall be called the “ Immigration Act, B.E. 2522 ”

Section 2 : This Act shall be enforced after the lose of ninety days from the date of its publication in the Government Gazette.

Section 3 : Immigration Acts : 1. B.E. 2493 ( 1950 ) 2. B.E. 2497 ( 1954 – NO.2 ) Shall be repealed In lieu all others laws , regulations , or rules witch are provided for in this Act or contradictory hereto or inconsistent herewith , the provision of this Act shall be applied.

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office. The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General. In making notification under this Section , the alien may make notification in person or send a letter of notification to the competent official , in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the Director General .

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

In case the house , dwelling place , or hotel where the alien has stayed under provision of Para.1 is located within the Bangkok area , such notification must be reported to the competent official at the Immigration Division. Making notification , in reference to the Para 1 and 2 of this Section , must comply with regulations prescribed by the Director General.

Here is the link to the Immigration Act (Thai language):
https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=58b4f72454b2f90a80136447

Here is a link that ubonjoe provided in a thread on the subject last November: Immigration Act B.E. 2522 English translation

Edited June 7, 2018 by Kerryd
added hyperlinks

[Kerryd]

Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses

According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national." If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau. The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30. The notification of residence of foreign nationals within 24 hours can be made in a number of ways to make the notification as convenient as possible:
- In person at the respective office, or
- Through an authorised person at the respective office, or
- By registered mail, or
- Via internet.

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/การแจ้งที่พักคนต่างด้าว