Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Maybe we recognise that the result was badly tainted by both sides and call it off?

Or maybe we stop searching for reasons to cancel the referendum result and get on with implementing it.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

Or maybe we stop searching for reasons to cancel the referendum result and get on with implementing it.

Even if the result is tainted by corrupt practices?

[billd766]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

There is nothing democratic or undemocratic about a referendum, they have no legal standing in the UK democratic system. There has only been 3 national referendums in the UK democratic history.

The brexit process had an extremely undemocratic start when the PM thought she could invoke Article 50 on the back of the referendum result. Does not say a great deal for her understanding of the UK democratic system, even arrogant enough to challenge the original court decision.

 

Yes, parliament did vote to trigger Article 50 with a result that was not in keeping with the referendum results. Only 114 votes against Article 50 which means that over 120 MPs voted against the will of the people in their constituency, collateral damage, it was the result the PM wanted.

The vote to trigger Article 50 was just that, and certainly did not put the matter to bed as we have seen from the continual arguments among cabinet ministers. This weekend the PM will beat their heads together until she gets the result she wants, a bit like the Withdrawal Bill. This is UK democracy in action, additional votes do not come into it when you can wield a stick.

Following the vote on Article 50 there should have been a vote in parliament over the SM and CU, then the hole wouldn't have got so deep.

 

Theresa May should act in the same manner as her predecessor, Margaret Thatcher, not by banging heads together but by handbagging them. Banging heads only really works if there is anything inside that works.

 

Perhaps she should also take this quote to heart too. 

 

 

I think my keyboard has developed a stutter.

Edited July 5, 2018 by billd766
edit for bad spelling after I had posted

[CG1 Blue]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Even if the result is tainted by corrupt practices?

You could probably say that about all elections. Other elections are not forensically examined like this one. The only reason the Brexit referendum is being looked into so keenly is because the establishment are so desperate to get it cancelled.

[nauseus]

GOing off topic, I was surprised to see Mr. Carney with no comment on Brexit in this:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44721670

 

More into waistcoats now.

[tomacht8]

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

BREXIT: THE ANSWERS BUSINESSES NEED

 

http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/Brexit Practicalities Scorecard Final.pdf

Good info. Thx
Brexit will come., but nobody knows when it should take place and how exactly it looks like. Only the formal date is known, but there are no realistic plans and feasible timelines present. The UK is well advised first to agree a transitional period to keep the economic damage low. Realistic times for trade agreements are 5-7 years. And then there is even more stress from the orange clown from America who craves WTO rules. That the UK is able to solve all problems and open questions in 9 months is pure fantasy.

[The Renegade]

Quote

Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

Ace of Leaving - Goodbye commencing 29 March 2019

Ace of WTO rules & regs - Commencing 29 March 2019

Ace of no more Brussels, ECJ and £ Billions annually - Commencing 29 March 2019

Ace of free to trade how and with who we please - Commencing 29 March 2019

 

The only cards that should be getting slapped on the EU's table.

 

That will focus their minds and get rid of their silly idea that they are going to keep the UK tied to Brussels, the ECJ and paying £Billions for the pleasure.

 

If May cannot do that. It is time to step down and get someone with a pair, who will do it.

[bristolboy]

"Ace of free to trade how and with who we please - Commencing 29 March 2019"

You think just possibly, maybe, perhaps it might be the case that the "who we please" might not be pleased at all to trade on terms that please the UK? 

 Nostalgic for the days when Britannia could force the Chinese to allow opium to be sold?

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

But supply chains would only be affected for less than 20% of their market. And that's in a worst case 'no deal' scenario.

The moves to other places in Europe are for other reasons. The Slovakia plant was simply to increase production I believe. And that decision was made in 2015 - pre referendum.

 

China is the growth market for JLR sales. But it's convenient to paint their strategy as an anti-Brexit one.

 

 

We can believe what the directors of JLR say or we can believe some geezer on an expat forum spouting his own personal opinion. 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

I don’t know what you’re waffling on about, I’m not sure if you know yourself

 

*** There is nothing democratic or undemocratic about a referendum ***

Wrong, it is a democratic process, if you think it is not, please say why.

 

Everyone and his grandmother’s cat knows that a UK referendum is not legally binding.

 

Everyone knows that the government said in the advisory leaflet they sent to every household “ This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide”

 

Everyone knows that pressure was put on the government not to trigger article 50 without putting it to a parliamentary vote; they did this, after a high court ruling, which is democracy working perfectly, and everyone knows the result of that vote.

 

This is how democratic process works in the UK, I fail to see why you cannot understand that; you just keep claiming that anything you disagree with suddenly becomes undemocratic, without any logical reason why. This continually recycled wailing from remainers has become very tiresome.

Everyone and his dog knows that it is the Tory PM that does not yet have a negotiating position agreed within her own cabinet. 

 

The PMs Cabinet it must be observed contains lights  movement - people who two years after the referendum have yet to come up with a negotiating position. 

 

 

No wonder Brexiteers are becoming increasingly agitated. 

 

What an utter shambles. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Going back to the original headline:

 

"Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain"

 

The EU commission and negotiators reject out of hand every proposal put to them. They will continue to do this until the last knockings. 

They do this in the hope we will just give up and fall back into line.

They do this with confidence, knowing that Westminster is stuffed full of Remainers and that there is a concerted effort from MSM and billionaire globalists to scare the UK public.

 

Asking the UK to put it's cards on the table is a joke, and they are laughing into their expensive EU funded lunches.

 

PM May, who knows a good deal more about this than you, has agreed to come back with her 'cards' (the Government's Negotiating Position), but she also admits she doesn't have the UK's negotiating position agreed with her own cabinet. 

 

So while your post is full of emotion stirring stuff, the fact is the UK has not yet presented its requirements to the EU.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

I don’t know much about the Jersey option to be honest.  Which of these things would the Jersey option deliver if any?

 

- We leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ

- We no longer have to contribute billions to the EU budget

- No more freedom of movement

- We no longer have to follow EU regulations

- We can strike trade deals independently with other nations

- We leave the Common Agricultural Policy

- We leave the Common Fisheries Policy

 

If it delivers all / most of them, then it might be the right compromise.

If it delivers none / few of them, then it's not leaving the EU is it?

 

You should email that to the PM, she's desperately looking for a negotiating position to take to the negotiations (Until now she still doesn't have one).

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Everyone and his dog knows that it is the Tory PM that does not yet have a negotiating position agreed within her own cabinet. 

 

The PMs Cabinet it must be observed contains lights  movement - people who two years after the referendum have yet to come up with a negotiating position. 

 

 

No wonder Brexiteers are becoming increasingly agitated. 

 

What an utter shambles. 

 

But look on the bright side, we don't have Labour in charge.

[CG1 Blue]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We can believe what the directors of JLR say or we can believe some geezer on an expat forum spouting his own personal opinion. 

 

 

Perhaps you believe that company directors don't spin things. I'm not that naïve

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Perhaps you believe that company directors don't spin things. I'm not that naïve

You may not be that naive but clearly they know something about supply chains that you don't.

"But supply chains would only be affected for less than 20% of their market. And that's in a worst case 'no deal' scenario."

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Well, the government at the time spent £9 million of taxpayers money, advising everyone in the country to vote remain, so you may well have a point 

They gave their best advice. 50P a pamphlet including delivery too much? What would you have them do? A pop up book maybe?

Edited July 5, 2018 by Grouse

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

I don’t know much about the Jersey option to be honest.  Which of these things would the Jersey option deliver if any?

 

- We leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ

- We no longer have to contribute billions to the EU budget

- No more freedom of movement

- We no longer have to follow EU regulations

- We can strike trade deals independently with other nations

- We leave the Common Agricultural Policy

- We leave the Common Fisheries Policy

 

If it delivers all / most of them, then it might be the right compromise.

If it delivers none / few of them, then it's not leaving the EU is it?

 

Seems like Jersey gets on satisfactorily with the agreement it has with the EU. But I'll cherry-pick just one of the above which seems to me to be a major Brexit misunderstanding by leavers - i.e. striking trade deals independently. Apart from facing competition from the EU (which has a far greater consumer market clout than the UK) it could take YEARS to implement just one trade agreement from scratch.

 

With the USA it could take 3 years to implement an agreement, see link below. In other words, the UK cannot just go shopping and buy a trade agreement within days, weeks or months. And we would have to renegotiate deals with 30 or so countries we already have deals with by virtue of being in the EU. 

 

Here is one link that provides an insight: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/how-long-do-trade-deals-take-after-brexit/  

 

One reason the UK government is attempting to renegotiate a trade deal with the EU before exiting.  

 

 

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Going back to the original headline:

 

"Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain"

 

The EU commission and negotiators reject out of hand every proposal put to them. They will continue to do this until the last knockings. 

They do this in the hope we will just give up and fall back into line.

They do this with confidence, knowing that Westminster is stuffed full of Remainers and that there is a concerted effort from MSM and billionaire globalists to scare the UK public.

 

Asking the UK to put it's cards on the table is a joke, and they are laughing into their expensive EU funded lunches.

 

And shoulder chips come out in force! Now it's expense account lunches (rather passé these days) and rich people and those with an education. Why don't you take the advice of people have done reasonably well or better. You may all get an expense account lunch yet ?

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Perhaps you believe that company directors don't spin things. I'm not that naïve

I believe they control the investments, employment/lay-off decisions of the company for which they are directors. 

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I don’t know much about the Jersey option to be honest.  Which of these things would the Jersey option deliver if any?

 

- We leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ

- We no longer have to contribute billions to the EU budget

- No more freedom of movement

- We no longer have to follow EU regulations

- We can strike trade deals independently with other nations

- We leave the Common Agricultural Policy

- We leave the Common Fisheries Policy

 

If it delivers all / most of them, then it might be the right compromise.

If it delivers none / few of them, then it's not leaving the EU is it?

 

I notice that you miss out the most important issues.

 

I think a deal on "controlled free movement" can be achieved.

 

What EU regs do you wish to drop?

 

How would you like to see CAP change? It has already changed significantly and our farmers do well and produce well

 

I don't eat much fish

[Eloquent pilgrim]

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

They gave their best advice. 50P a pamphlet including delivery too much? What would you have them do? A pop up book maybe?

Well considering that they got it completely wrong, and failed miserably to understand how the electorate felt about remaining in this nepotistic, decaying union, I would say it was far too much, far, far, too much

[tebee]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Ace of Leaving - Goodbye commencing 29 March 2019

Ace of WTO rules & regs - Commencing 29 March 2019

Ace of no more Brussels, ECJ and £ Billions annually - Commencing 29 March 2019

Ace of free to trade how and with who we please - Commencing 29 March 2019

 

The only cards that should be getting slapped on the EU's table.

 

That will focus their minds and get rid of their silly idea that they are going to keep the UK tied to Brussels, the ECJ and paying £Billions for the pleasure.

 

If May cannot do that. It is time to step down and get someone with a pair, who will do it.

Most people at this point now understand that a no deal Brexit would be a bad thing - save for those in thrall to the mendacity of Jacob Rees-Mogg. But even they admit (if cornered) that no deal cannot mean no deal.

 

There is now a mountain of evidence to suggest things very much will come to a grinding halt. Put this to a Brexit headbanger and they will tell you how we can do a deal to sort it out after the fact. The fact of matter is that the UK needs formal trade relations with its nearest and largest neighbour. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

19 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think a deal on "controlled free movement" can be achieved.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha … you have certainly started cranking up the humour as you age old bean. That was the only significant concession that Cameron asked for, and Merkel and Drunker said  “ **** off Davey, your proletariat will never vote leave” …… you are so  funny at times, especially when you achieve it without any intention of so doing

[stephenterry]

Headline today from an insistent Theresa May after the latest Novichok incident "Salisbury is open for business." 

Pity the rest of the UK isn't.

[tebee]

Brexit was always going to mean either:

 

1. 3rd party relationship and the restructuring of large sections of the U.K. economy, or

2. Integrated relationship and the blurring (at best) of the red lines

 

Generational leadership fail that this has never been properly explained.

 

@Sime0nStylites
 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

12 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Headline today from an insistent Theresa May after the latest Novichok incident "Salisbury is open for business." 

Pity the rest of the UK isn't.

Ho, Ho, Ho, yet another example of side-splitting humour from a remainer. Have you been all day thinking that up, or is it plagiarised

[aright]

57 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You may not be that naive but clearly they know something about supply chains that you don't.

"But supply chains would only be affected for less than 20% of their market. And that's in a worst case 'no deal' scenario."

 

Didn't Volkwagen  clearly know something about diesel emissions violations but forgot to tell the general public.

Half a million vehicles recalled as I recall. So much for "they" clearly knowing

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We can believe what the directors of JLR say or we can believe some geezer on an expat forum spouting his own personal opinion. 

Last year suspicion of diesels emissions cheating on two Mercedes Benz engines resulted in Daimler executives being summoned to meet government officials in Berlin. Almost 3 million vans and cars recalled.

 

So much for believing directors. I think we know where the naivete lies

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Well considering that they got it completely wrong, and failed miserably to understand how the electorate felt about remaining in this nepotistic, decaying union, I would say it was far too much, far, far, too much

50p to tell you the government's feeling

 

Followed by a referendum to understand your feeling

 

What do want? Another pamphlet? 

[Grouse]

47 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha … you have certainly started cranking up the humour as you age old bean. That was the only significant concession that Cameron asked for, and Merkel and Drunker said  “ **** off Davey, your proletariat will never vote leave” …… you are so  funny at times, especially when you achieve it without any intention of so doing

Actually Cameron won a useful concession on free movement which was lost because of the referendum. I'm pleased you find this amusing. I don't, maybe because I understand the likely consequences?

[Grouse]

51 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Headline today from an insistent Theresa May after the latest Novichok incident "Salisbury is open for business." 

Pity the rest of the UK isn't.

Amesbury is shut