Why are there less people in bars from 2009 to 2015 in southern Phuket

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, xylophone said:

Yes IMO...……And I think the graph regarding the currency changes is a direct pointer to this and why people are not flocking here in the same numbers – – their holiday/spending money just does not go as far.

 

Not only that, the GFC affected people in other ways (struggling pension funds and banks etc and some funds disappearing altogether) and quite probably made people tighten up on their spending.

 

And to take it a step further, the influx of Chinese, Indians, Arabs and the like, as well as some young families of those nationalities, do not spend time in bars (well not too much anyway apart from the occasional small party of Chinese who will enjoy a live band).

 

I remember the good old days of a completely full Soi Eric, Soi Lion, Soi Crocodile and the original Tiger complex, as well as bars along the beach road and Sawadirak road, not to mention other places, and now those have gone.

 

Sure there is the "resurrected" Tiger and the new Tiger complex, however a great percentage of those bars are now empty and un-leased and Soi Eric has its fair share of empty bars. So yes, less bars.

 

See above...……….

Soi Eric? Never heard of it.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Yes, more Chinese are coming to Thailand.  It is what it is.  But are you suggesting more sex tourists would be good for Thailand? 

I would say yes, if only from a financial point of view. More sex tourists will help fill up hotels, bars, and restaurants.

[Media1]

Since the coup. Many bars have been closed down to make way for the Chinese pests. So the answer is yes. As long as the coup leaders are here immigration will make it hard for easy access. 

[zaZa9]

Definitely less bars.

And less 'staff' in those that survive.

No two ways about that.

[Media1]

2 minutes ago, zaZa9 said:

Definitely less bars.

And less 'staff' in those that survive.

No two ways about that.

Yes

[mike324]

21 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Yes, an interesting thread.

 

"it was obvious that the sex tourist was in rapid decline" - this is an interesting comment.  

 

If there is one thing Thailand has, it's an abundance of cheap sex workers.  Thailand is famous for its sex trade. 

 

Are you saying sex tourists are not coming to Thailand, or are just not coming to Phuket?

compare to the 90s and early 2000s, its a huge difference. There is not an abudnance anymore....not to even mention the quality. 

 

I think there are less bars like other posters have said, exchange rate and prices of goods have gone up.

[Jimi007]

11 minutes ago, bbbbooboo said:

hmmm..... less farangs are coming to Thailand because of all the visa BS primarily I suggest and with the increased cost of living and entertainment etc people are going somewhere else.Its certainly true for me and I suspect many others

Most farangs from western countries don't even need a Visa to visit Thailand for 30 days. I have no issues getting my yearly Visa extensions and now with the online 90 day reports working, I only have to go to immigration once a year! Well, actually twice. One day I apply for the one year extension and have to come back the next afternoon to pick up my passport and get a re-entry permit, just in case.

 

I would say, as has been mentioned, changing demographics  and exchange rates may be more of the issue than a visa. Also the price of a drink these days in a bar isn't a very good deal. 

 

[NoshowJones]

14 minutes ago, bbbbooboo said:

hmmm..... less farangs are coming to Thailand because of all the visa BS primarily I suggest and with the increased cost of living and entertainment etc people are going somewhere else.Its certainly true for me and I suspect many others

I have always said that the Thai government have shot themselves in the foot with all their visa BS, hotel and restaurant owners must be cursing them.

 

Another thing while I'm here, when I first came to Thailand between 2001 and 2005 when there was around 70 Baht to the GBP,  there were two occasions when I got three window seats to myself on the Plane, the first one was with KLM, second time Thai airways. Why is there no chance of this now when there are a lot less tourists, and the exchange rate is so bad, and everything else is so much dearer?

[xylophone]

29 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Soi Eric? Never heard of it.

One of the best and most liveliest soi up until sold and demolished about 4-5 yrs ago...……..now Soi Freedom as I said in my follow up post!

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

one night 4 Chinese men came in, sat down at a table and asked for 4 glasses and ice. They then pulled out their 711 bought beers and proceeded to drink them. He thought ok they may buy food. When asked to order they said they didn't want so he kicked them out.

Similar happens many times here in my local Starbucks...……..a party of 4-6 sit down at a table, dump their Big C shopping bags and sit there without buying anything, shouting and taking up valuable space.

 

A few locals like myself, at times have nowhere to sit. Bloody annoying, and now when I see it I get one of the Starbucks staff to go to the table and present them with a menu!! They soon shift when they know they have to buy something.

[zaZa9]

You should have caught the next plane , it wasn't even half full !

 

I would agree that Thailands bars arent a bargain anymore.

Maybe going out drinking is something tourists can cut from their itinerary to save money - 7/11 beers by the pool  may happen a lot more regularly than before..

 

Theres certainly way more 7/11s...

 

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by zaZa9

[Media1]

8 minutes ago, mike324 said:

compare to the 90s and early 2000s, its a huge difference. There is not an abudnance anymore....not to even mention the quality. 

 

I think there are less bars like other posters have said, exchange rate and prices of goods have gone up.

Nothing to do with sex tourist decline. All about the regime and there China love. Happy to sacrifice Thai entertainment industry for smoking buses and remove income from the huge bar industry. Also removing any mystic Thailand once had. That's why they will get elected and they know it lol.

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

Most farangs from western countries don't even need a Visa to visit Thailand for 30 days. I have no issues getting my yearly Visa extensions and now with the online 90 day reports working, I only have to go to immigration once a year! Well, actually twice. One day I apply for the one year extension and have to come back the next afternoon to pick up my passport and get a re-entry permit, just in case.

 

I would say, as has been mentioned, changing demographics  and exchange rates may be more of the issue than a visa. Also the price of a drink these days in a bar isn't a very good deal. 

 

I would say that the visa situation will affect a lot more of the younger tourists under fifty, who want to stay longer term, I think that is the most common age for tourists. A lot of hotels and restaurants will be losing a lot of business there.

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Similar happens many times here in my local Starbucks...……..a party of 4-6 sit down at a table, dump their Big C shopping bags and sit there without buying anything, shouting and taking up valuable space.

 

 

 

A few locals like myself, at times have nowhere to sit. Bloody annoying, and now when I see it I get one of the Starbucks staff to go to the table and present them with a menu!! They soon shift when they know they have to buy something.

 

These people are really the pits.

[theonetrueaussie]

5 Years ago thailand was cheap this is no longer the case and there are many neighboring countries that are far far cheaper. 4 years ago was 33 THB to 1 AUD now its 24 THB to 1 AUD along with high inflation it is not good for tourists these days. 

As for the bars 4 years ago many pretty ladies in the bars and 1000 THB for the night now many average ladies in the bar all wanting 2-3k a night. As many have said the demographics have changed and many more chinese coming these days, however most are on tours and their bus take them to mainly chinese operated and run places so compared with sexpats it's probably not as good for the locals. 

Another thing to remember was 4-5 years ago you could stay forever on tourist visas no problem but these days no matter what visa you have you never know if you will get denied at the airport. There are just too many easier and cheaper options in the region for tourists to choose and they are choosing them over thailand. 

Just my 2 cents

[Jimi007]

10 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I would say that the visa situation will affect a lot more of the younger tourists under fifty, who want to stay longer term, I think that is the most common age for tourists. A lot of hotels and restaurants will be losing a lot of business there.

The immigration laws haven't changed since 2004 when I arrived, other than they want a map and a photo of you in front of your house, so I really doubt it has any influence on the fewer numbers at bars. Under 50, get a multi entry tourist visa and thirty day extensions... And now you get 30 days even at a land border, no more 15 days and no limit to the number of entries with a multi entry tourist visa.  Only two entries without a visa.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Jimi007

[LivinginKata]

28 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I have always said that the Thai government have shot themselves in the foot with all their visa BS, hotel and restaurant owners must be cursing them.

 

Another thing while I'm here, when I first came to Thailand between 2001 and 2005 when there was around 70 Baht to the GBP,  there were two occasions when I got three window seats to myself on the Plane, the first one was with KLM, second time Thai airways. Why is there no chance of this now when there are a lot less tourists, and the exchange rate is so bad, and everything else is so much dearer?

 

Trouble is that 70 Baht rate was an aberration due to f/x meddling. When I arrived in 1996 it was 36 baht to GBP. In 1998/89-ish I was getting 90 baht to the GPB but just for a single week. Since then the rate has declined due to global financials, and BritExit killed the Baht rate.  So for me 44 Baht is still a better rate than I initially invested in Thailand when buying a 30 year lease and plunking a big fixed deposit in a Thai bank, and back then I was getting 18% fixed interest. Enough to live off, but no way now. So as expected it's all a big money roller coaster.

[natway09]

Short answer   "Yes" because there are less farangs coming to Thailand.

You lot going on about exchange rates must realize that your countries currency is weak because

your balance of trade just cannot sustain it where as Thailand's economy is moving along pretty well

with very few bludging off the state

 

[NoshowJones]

30 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

The immigration laws haven't changed since 2004 when I arrived, other than they want a map and a photo of you in front of your house, so I really doubt it has any influence on the fewer numbers at bars. Under 50, get a multi entry tourist visa and thirty day extensions... And now you get 30 days even at a land border, no more 15 days and no limit to the number of entries with a multi entry tourist visa.  Only two entries without a visa.

"The immigration laws haven't changed since 2004 when I arrived". The tourist visa rules have changed drastically since then, I won't bother explaining.

[kalidescopemind]

I think what has happened is a lot of girls just use their phones now to get sex work and cut the bar out.   All they need is 10 or so Johns and they are set.  I could see in Pattaya 7 years ago that the best girls were walking around the malls during the day with their phones.   since then just about everyone has a phone now.  Before they were bored with no phones and they made a good effort to be friendly.   Times have changed.  

[Kerryd]

13 minutes ago, Jimi007 said:

The immigration laws haven't changed since 2004 when I arrived, other than they want a map and a photo of you in front of your house, so I really doubt it has any influence on the fewer numbers at bars. Under 50, get a multi entry tourist visa and thirty day extensions... And now you get 30 days even at a land border, no more 15 days and no limit to the number of entries with a multi entry tourist visa.  Only two entries without a visa.

But that did change (for awhile at least). For example, between late 2005 and the Fall of 2006, I had a 9 month gap between contracts. Too young for a "Retirement" Visa, didn't want to splurge on an "Elite" card and never even thought about going to a different country to get a Tourist Visa of any kind. 
Didn't seem worth the hassle when all I had to do was make a trip to the border once a month, spend 2,500 baht which included 2 meals, a movie or 2 and expert assistance with the process, and I was good to go for another month.

Did that 9 times in a row before we finally went back to work. But it wasn't long after that when they started cracking down on the huge numbers of other people that were doing the same thing. When you see all those buses full of people at the same border crossings and realize that it literally happens every single day, probably at most major border crossings around the country, you realize that you aren't talking about a couple hundred people doing a "30 Day" runs every month, but more like 10s of thousands that were (are) doing it. 

I think when they cracked down on the "Border Runners" it may have resulted in a lot of them looking for greener pastures elsewhere. Remember how the rule had changed that you could only get something like 3 "30 Day" stamps in a year, then it was you could only get 15 days at land borders, then it was changed back to 30 days (for some countries).

There were a lot of people that were living here on those 30 Day stamps. I haven't had to do a "border run" in over a decade so I'm not sure if they are still as busy as they used to be but I suspect that a lot of those people aren't here anymore.

[cmrichsw]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

Its called socialising

 

I like my socialising as you call it one on one. Apps arange socialising without the excess cost of drinks, try it sometime it is much better for your health.

 

[Jimi007]

20 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

But that did change (for awhile at least). For example, between late 2005 and the Fall of 2006, I had a 9 month gap between contracts. Too young for a "Retirement" Visa, didn't want to splurge on an "Elite" card and never even thought about going to a different country to get a Tourist Visa of any kind. 
Didn't seem worth the hassle when all I had to do was make a trip to the border once a month, spend 2,500 baht which included 2 meals, a movie or 2 and expert assistance with the process, and I was good to go for another month.

Did that 9 times in a row before we finally went back to work. But it wasn't long after that when they started cracking down on the huge numbers of other people that were doing the same thing. When you see all those buses full of people at the same border crossings and realize that it literally happens every single day, probably at most major border crossings around the country, you realize that you aren't talking about a couple hundred people doing a "30 Day" runs every month, but more like 10s of thousands that were (are) doing it. 

I think when they cracked down on the "Border Runners" it may have resulted in a lot of them looking for greener pastures elsewhere. Remember how the rule had changed that you could only get something like 3 "30 Day" stamps in a year, then it was you could only get 15 days at land borders, then it was changed back to 30 days (for some countries).

There were a lot of people that were living here on those 30 Day stamps. I haven't had to do a "border run" in over a decade so I'm not sure if they are still as busy as they used to be but I suspect that a lot of those people aren't here anymore.

Or they got older than 50 and got a retirement extension, like I did once I turned 50. Yes, I was one of those who did the visa run to Ranong every 30 days. I guess I was "lucky" when I turned 50, right as they were "cracking down" on visa runs! 

 

 Try getting your Thai wife a visa to go to the USA if you think the immigration laws are bad here! It took me about 2 years. After 5 years she now has a10 year  US Green Card, a couple of thousand dollars later in fees alone! Along with a ream of paperwork I did, or you can add another $10K USD for an immigration attorney!

Edited July 14, 2018 by Jimi007

[RT555]

Thailand is getting old, especially myself that it Feels less safe. Money doesn't go far. 

I don't go out as much as I used to

 

Cambodia is alot cheaper, and have spent more time there than Thailand. A pint of beer is 15Bt, here it rarely goes below 100Bt

I'm working in Myanmar, I just choose P. P over Bangkok. 

[Mauiguy]

Police checkpoints discourage lots of farangs from going out at night.

Add in the overpriced taxi fares and what once was a reasonable expenditure becomes prohibitive.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Mauiguy
Spelling errors

[Kerryd]

Most countries can control (to a degree) the kinds of tourists that come to their country. Changes to Visa rules and Tourism promotions can result in great influxes of tourists from one area/region while causing a drop in arrivals from others.
 

I think what may have happened is that, long ago, Thailand realized that most of the "sex tourists" were coming from "Western" countries and it was all that nasty sex business that was giving the country a bad name.

Hence, I suspect that the "powers that be" decided to tone down the tourism promotions in the Western countries and increase it in places like India and China. Perhaps they thought that the loss of revenue from the high spending Westerners would be offset by greater numbers of tourists from "poorer" countries.

 

I'm just guessing here, but that's the general impression I get. If that was the plan I don't think it is working to well. For example, 10 drunk "Westerners" spending 5,000 baht per day on accommodations/food, drink, women and whatever else (jet skis, etc) = about 50,000 baht per day.

20-30 people from a country like India or China, that maybe (maybe) spend 1,000 per day = 20-30,000 per day. And keep in mind, they probably aren't spending that money in the same places a lot of the "Westerners" would be. From the sounds of things (and personal observations), I'd suspect that a lot of the Indian/Chinese tourists would be lucky to be spending 1,000 per day on average.

(Remember the whole deal about the "zero dollar" tourism where planeloads of Chinese were coming to Thailand for holidays but literally not spending a penny.)

There was a reason why "Western" tourists earned the nickname "2 week millionaires". The average (Western) tourist spent 10-14 days in Thailand and blew money like they were millionaires on a mission to spend as much as possible as fast as possible.
10(ish) years ago, I'd be in a "club" and at closing time if my bin was around 7,500 baht it was an "average" night. That was back when my holidays were about 31 days at a time, 3-4 times a year. 
Compare that to a group of guys from a large country to the West of Thailand that walked into my friend's beer bar and tried to barter him down on the price of his draft beer (which was 60 baht for a glass at the time I think). They ended up buying 1 beer and split it between 5 of them.

Or compare it to a club where the same sort of guys would get charged a "membership fee" to enter and then look at you weird when you stroll right on in without question. The club(s) know that the only way they are going to make money from those guys is by charging an admission fee. I recall one night I spent about an hour in one place like that and probably spent more than the 4 other guys who came in at the same time spent all night. They literally sat there for an hour nursing a small glass of beer (each). Most of the girls wouldn't go near them because they knew they'd get groped mercilessly and wouldn't get a single drink or tip out of any of them.

Or another place that had made deals with some Asian tour groups. A busload of them would arrive and each be offered a Coke or a beer. They'd sit for an hour and then their guide would signal them and they'd all get up and leave. I noticed many a time that they barely even touched the Coke (or beer), let alone order another and they certainly didn't interact with the girls. Whether they chose a beer or a Coke, the "tour agency" was charged 100 baht per person. So 30 people equalled 3,000 baht.
I spent more than that in 2 hours in the same place.
The owners of those business are making money but in some cases it's barely enough to meet expenses. The staff are getting their salaries but not a whole lot more.

And in the end, I don't think it has helped Thailand's "image" at all, nor has it reduced the "sex trade". There is still a large influx of girls "from the country" heading to Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya to compete for jobs. Still as many (or more) bars and go-gos (probably at least 3 times as many as 10 years ago) but fewer customers for them and, as a result, higher prices in a lot of cases.

 

It goes against logic, but it seems that in Thailand, if business goes down the preferred solution is to jack up the prices and try to make more from fewer people ! For example, a few years ago I happened across a go-go on a side street off of Walking Street. The music sounded good so I went inside. Nice place, lots of girls, choreographed stage show going on. No other customers in the place. Ordered a Jack/Coke. Got the bin. It was about 50% more than what most other clubs were charging for the same thing. They didn't even have any girls on Walking Street (or anywhere else that I could see) trying to lure customers into the club.

 

Went back about 10 days later, Same thing, good music, lots of girls, no customers. Ordered a Jack/Coke and it had gone up in price and was almost double what I'd have paid in Polo or Baccara or Angel Witch. Watched one guy walk in and order a beer. He got the beer, looked at the bin, shook his head, gave the girl some money, took a swig of the beer and walked out. (I'd have finished the beer at least but I guess he figured if the beer was that expensive there was no point in even looking at anything else.)

Was going to go there the following week with a buddy, just for the music, however the place had closed by then.
Seems to be the same story for the girls. By rights, when supply outweighs demand, prices normally go down, not up ! But for the girls, it seems to be the other way around. When demand is low, prices go up so they can try and make the same money off of fewer customers. 

You'd think it would be a booty-hunters dream right now ! Less competition, more girls to choose from. But as mentioned a few posts above, where once a "long time" would cost you a bar fine and 1,000 baht (maybe 1,500 for a "star"), it is now up to 2-3,000 for a regular girl (maybe 5,000 for a "star") and "long time" may be what "short time" used to be. 

So back to the beginning. If the plan of the "powers that be" was to try and improve Thailand's image by reducing the "sex trade" and targeting tourism from places like India and China to make up for the lost "sex tourism" money, the plan isn't working.
The sex trade doesn't seem to be diminished at all but a lot of businesses aren't making anywhere near the same money they used to.

(BTW - I did a little research for another post in a different thread and it showed that from 2005 to now, the number of tourist "arrivals" has steadily increased every year except for 2009 (where there was a slight dip in the numbers due to all the political unrest, violence and the airport take-over by PAD). 
Last year set a record for the number of arrivals and the numbers this year are already ahead of last years totals for the same time. Next year it is estimated they'll crack 40 million arrivals.

 

Probably not going to help all the bars and business owners though. Especially if all those record numbers aren't spending any money (anywhere) !

 

 

[LivinginKata]

39 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

<snip>

I think what may have happened is that, long ago, Thailand realized that most of the "sex tourists" were coming from "Western" countries and it was all that nasty sex business that was giving the country a bad name.

Hence, I suspect that the "powers that be" decided to tone down the tourism promotions in the Western countries and increase it in places like India and China. Perhaps they thought that the loss of revenue from the high spending Westerners would be offset by greater numbers of tourists from "poorer" countries.

<snip>
So back to the beginning. If the plan of the "powers that be" was to try and improve Thailand's image by reducing the "sex trade" and targeting tourism from places like India and China to make up for the lost "sex tourism" money, the plan isn't working.
The sex trade doesn't seem to be diminished at all but a lot of businesses aren't making anywhere near the same money they used to.
 

 

Yes. The Patong 'city fathers' talked about that 'policy' about 10 years ago. They made it very clear that they wanted the 'sleeze' in Bangla moved away to the outskirts of Patong, and family friendly venues opened, like mini malls and shopping.

[Seeall]

On 7/13/2018 at 11:41 AM, NamKangMan said:

 

"I still visit Thailand but drink at home." - huh????

Quite simple, he probably has a nice collection and thus no need for hired help?

[dotpoom]

On 7/12/2018 at 9:05 AM, BritManToo said:

Our money (all white currencies) is worth less in Thailand, and prices (especially of women) in Thailand are a lot higher.

Lots of other countries to visit where the currency changes are little or none.

Without the lure of cheap women, no point in visiting a bar.

I still visit Thailand but drink at home.

Coconut lady (beach Rd.) still selling their wares between 500 and 700 Bt....too expensive?

[KKr]

On 7/13/2018 at 11:41 AM, NamKangMan said:

 

"I still visit Thailand but drink at home." - huh????

a Russian saying goes that most drinkers are not alcoholics because they drink with someone else,
but that drinking alone means you for sure are an alcoholic.

Also, it was recognised recently (about 15 years ago) that beer alcoholism does exist. Did you know that ?