Why are there less people in bars from 2009 to 2015 in southern Phuket

[Old Croc]

Just now, xylophone said:

You are quite right OC...…….I was looking at the latest stats which are up to May this year.

My apologies for yet another senile error, getting too many of these lately!!

I know what it's like, I've also now hit 70!

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

I know what it's like, I've also now hit 70!

Well this year, 71st, I've experienced more "doozies" than ever before and I always thought I was fairly switched on!

 

More to come by the looks of things...……..probably good that I only go out at night once a week, to see friends, have a meal and a sing-song when possible as well as a couple of drinks. 

 

If the westerners are increasing here, then they surely don't visit the bars in anywhere near the same numbers as the "halcyon" days. In those days a friend had a bar and showed me his books/ledgers and after paying the bar rent, salaries, staff and staff house rent as well as his own living expenses, he was still saving/banking over a million baht pa!! Another bar owner was in a similar position!

 

Now bar owners are walking away from the bars because they can't pay the rent and a couple I know have gone back to their own countries to earn money to support the bar...…….must think there is a future in it? 

[schlog]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

 In those days a friend had a bar and showed me his books/ledgers and after paying the bar rent, salaries, staff and staff house rent as well as his own living expenses, he was still saving/banking over a million baht pa!! Another bar owner was in a similar position!

In the golden 90' bars like Kangeroo or U2 need only 2 days of the new year to have 1 million in profit.

 

Bangla was paradise on earth. But we oldtimers still fighting till the day comes and Phuket take us. Like last week Werner from K-hotel. RIP.

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, schlog said:

Like last week Werner from K-hotel. RIP.

I wasn't aware of that!!! What happened? He wasn't that old was he?

[rickudon]

Western tourist arrivals haven't changed much in the last 10 years, maybe up about 10%. The demographics possibly have, more families and backpackers, and with the visa changes, probably less younger people doing visa runs to live in Thailand. Also, the resident expat population is ageing i think - the majority i know came here about 10 years ago in their 50's or early 60's, so now 10 years older .... so not using the bars so much and also many now have wives in tow.

 

Financial reasons - the rise in Thailand's CPI is insignificant, maybe 15% in 10 years. the exchange rates are, for British now nearly 40% less. Those living on savings are getting only a fraction of the interest of 10 years ago. All adds up to less money to spend - alcohol is an easy saving. Also, not mentioned is the COST of alcohol - that has risen a lot more, 25-50% over the last 10 years. Beer is no cheaper from a Thai supermarket than a British supermarket now.

 

So drinking in a bar is less attractive because we are older, have kids, less disposable income and the fringe benefits the bars used to provide are less attractive also ...... Good restaurants on the other hand have increased.

[BritManToo]

47 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Also, not mentioned is the COST of alcohol - that has risen a lot more, 25-50% over the last 10 years.

Beer is no cheaper from a Thai supermarket than a British supermarket now.

 

Not sure about that, was having a large Leo in a Thai restaurant at the weekend, 65bht (inc ice).

When I first started coming here 10 years back, it wasn't much (if any) cheaper.

( I seem to recall 3 large Leos at the 'cheaper' Thai beer bars for 150bht inc bucket of ice, 10 years back)

Pint in a cheaper UK pub, 4-5 pounds a time 2 months back.

 

Beer in UK Tesco, large bottles generally 3 for 5.25 (70bht/bottle) Vs Beer in Makro box of 12 for 500, 42bht/bottle

Spirits in Thailand are often 1/2 the price of the UK.

(Cheapest 700ml bottle Tesco UK Nikita 10 pounds (400bht) Vs Tesco Thailand Red Cock 130bht)

 

Of course, you'll pay a premium for imported European drinks.

[rickudon]

I'm not comparing pub prices. When i first came to Thailand (10 years ago) Leo was about 41 baht each if bought by the box. Now about 51 baht if bought by the box (we buy a lot for the shop). You might get Archa for 500 a box, but i think more than that.  In Tesco UK, or most supermarkets, can get beer for as little as one GBP a bottle or large can if buying a 4 pack (440 or 500 ml), or 1.50 GBP many options. Usually no big boxes except for small bottles and cans.Those are not including special offers! Single bottle prices in Tesco Lotus are 55 and 44 baht for Leo and Archa.

 

Spirits have gone up a similar amount (although cheaper than UK), As for wine ... 40% this year! 

 

Obviously hard to compare bar prices because they vary so much. But in real terms in GBP, that Leo now costs twice as much - so many drink less. 

[AndyJo]

I like the way it’s going.  Less idiots!

Before all kind of crap could afford a trip to Thailand. 

Now I don’t have to see those suckers

[mrfaroukh]

Probably bad economy in most European country, higher expenses in Thailand, low pension.

[Dazinoz]

6 hours ago, AndyJo said:

I like the way it’s going.  Less idiots!

Before all kind of crap could afford a trip to Thailand. 

Now I don’t have to see those suckers

Its good to be perfect

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, rickudon said:

Those are not including special offers! Single bottle prices in Tesco Lotus are 55 and 44 baht for Leo and Archa.

Tesco Lotus is a premium price store in Thailand, comparing it to Tesco UK as a price gauge isn't really fair.

U-beer in Makro 500bht/box.

3x 620ml bottles in Tesco UK 5.25p

 

Does anyone drink beer from cans? (except yobs)

[schlog]

13 hours ago, xylophone said:

I wasn't aware of that!!! What happened? He wasn't that old was he?

He was 62. Send you BM.

[rickudon]

You will be hard pressed to buy a single large bottle of Leo anywhere for under 55 baht, as the wholesale price is around 51 baht a bottle. My wife sells for 58 baht.

 

I actually like U-beer, but i do not think it was around 10 years ago. And yes, cheaper than Archa sometimes.

 

Quote

3x 620ml bottles in Tesco UK 5.25p

That is the price for imported beers to the UK, can get Singha and Chang at that price, which would make it only 10-15% more than in Thailand! Plenty of beers at one GBP (43 baht), although most are in cans (Carlsberg, Heineken) ... you can get London Pride (a proper beer) in Tesco UK for only 1.50 GBP a bottle, about 64 baht ......... No, beer prices ARE similar.

[Old Croc]

1 hour ago, schlog said:

He was 62. Send you BM.

72?

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, AndyJo said:

Before all kind of crap could afford a trip to Thailand. 

Still can and do and they are called Chinese.

Unfortunately seeing more of them and no amount of drownings will keep them away...…….much like the lemming syndrome.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, schlog said:

He was 62. Send you BM.

Thanks Schlog and have replied. Much appreciated.

[RedCardinal]

I came to Rawai a bit more than 10 years ago, so around the timeframe being discussed.  I was in my 30's, and I think there's also been a change in the age demographic of westerners here due to the ever-increasing difficulties in getting visas for those under retirement age. When I came first there were lots of young westerners who partied more and were probably less constrained in their consumption and spending than older folk are.  Today it's far more difficult for that same demographic group to easily stay here, and I reckon that's certainly a part of what we're seeing.  Every year I've been here there has been some new requirement or barrier introduced for getting a regular visa.

 

The other thing that comes to mind is the change in the professions held by the migrants who come or came here.  When I first arrived there were lots of offshore workers who came and went every 4-6 weeks.  Then came the young gamblers.  Both of these high-spending groups are now in decline, the former due to the oil industry turmoil, and the latter due to the various visa crack-downs that make it far less attractive to stay here.  Meanwhile, the currency volatility doesn't help anybody, but I suspect it affects the retirement demographic more than the young independent travellers.

[NamKangMan]

On 7/14/2018 at 1:25 PM, cmrichsw said:

It is easy to shop online (phone apps - you know for whatever) why go to bars. Maybe I just think different then the rest but it works for me.

 

 

I agree.

 

Many sex workers that previously would have worked in bars are now freelancing off their telephones.  They can be self employed this way. 

 

You would not be the first guy to sit at a bar, not buy any lady drinks, have a few beers, while scrolling through various pictures and profiles, and then leave to meet a girl outside your hotel. 

 

I know a guy with some mobility issues that sits in the bar of his hotel, he has a few beers, and has a girl off an app meets him in the bar for a drink, before they both go upstairs. 

 

If you look at a few of these apps, you can see hundreds, if not thousands of girls freelancing off their phone. 

 

This would mean bar owners have less staff applicants for selection, would be missing out on profits from lady drinks and bar fines, as well as the girl sweet talking the customer back to her bar the next night.  

 

For the customers, no lady drink prices and bar fine to pay, and no need to bar hop looking for someone you are attracted to. 

 

At this stage, I wouldn't say the sex trade here has been "digitally disrupted" like Uber did with the taxi industry, but yes, it is happening, and appears to be growing in popularity. 

[CLW]

Like it or not. Western tourists are no longer the target group number one for Thailand tourism marketing. It's now Chinese and Indian followed by other Asean states.

Times have changed and nothing you can do.

[LivinginKata]

2 hours ago, RedCardinal said:

<snip>

The other thing that comes to mind is the change in the professions held by the migrants who come or came here.  When I first arrived there were lots of offshore workers who came and went every 4-6 weeks.  Then came the young gamblers.  Both of these high-spending groups are now in decline, the former due to the oil industry turmoil, and the latter due to the various visa crack-downs that make it far less attractive to stay here. 

 

Exactly correct.  In years past we had quite a number of offshore workers and online gamblers. All youngish guys. With the restrictions in stamp on arrival and border hops we lost 6 good paying guests and the local bars lost a lot of income. 

[watcharacters]

On 7/13/2018 at 1:05 PM, NamKangMan said:

 

Less people in less currently surviving bars does not create a bright economic outlook for the hospitality sector on Phuket.

 

It will all persevere and in 20 years people will be writing "i remember how good it was in 2018".

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Exactly correct.  In years past we had quite a number of offshore workers and online gamblers. All youngish guys. With the restrictions in stamp on arrival and border hops we lost 6 good paying guests and the local bars lost a lot of income. 

And the Offshore Bar was where a lot gathered...………….but very empty these days!

[LivinginKata]

49 minutes ago, xylophone said:

And the Offshore Bar was where a lot gathered...………….but very empty these days!

 

Not so many back in the day. I remember the place being built. First an Italian restaurant that lasted a year or so. 3 offshore workers leased it and turned into the Offshore Bar as a place for their various girl friends  to run. Service was terrible, bar food never available. So place was usually quiet. Off shore guys preferred Bangla - the old Fire House was famous in the offshore world.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, CLW said:

Like it or not. Western tourists are no longer the target group number one for Thailand tourism marketing. It's now Chinese and Indian followed by other Asean states..

Dont think that its much to do with marketing .

And its nothing to do with whether people are Western, Chinese or Indian

Thailand wants holiday makers , not long term stayers

[CLW]

Dont think that its much to do with marketing .
And its nothing to do with whether people are Western, Chinese or Indian
Thailand wants holiday makers , not long term stayers

Well, I recognised a trend in learning Chinese instead of English and the putting up of signs and menus in Chinese language

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, CLW said:

25 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

Well, I recognised a trend in learning Chinese instead of English and the putting up of signs and menus in Chinese language

  There has been a huge influx of Chinese recently and so signs are for them .

What do you mean by Thais are learning Chinese and not English now .

How did you come to that conclusion ?  

 

[CLW]

  There has been a huge influx of Chinese recently and so signs are for them .
What do you mean by Thais are learning Chinese and not English now .
How did you come to that conclusion ?  
 

Observation from the tourism related courses at my university

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, CLW said:

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

  There has been a huge influx of Chinese recently and so signs are for them .
What do you mean by Thais are learning Chinese and not English now .
How did you come to that conclusion ?  
 

Observation from the tourism related courses at my university

How many Thais are now taking Chinese lessons these days , compared to those talking English lessons ?

   And what were the numbers from five years back ?

[CLW]

How many Thais are now taking Chinese lessons these days , compared to those talking English lessons ?
   And what were the numbers from five years back ?

I don't know. It was just an observation.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, CLW said:

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

How many Thais are now taking Chinese lessons these days , compared to those talking English lessons ?
   And what were the numbers from five years back ?

I don't know. It was just an observation.

It wasnt an observation , because you didnt observe anything .

A few people learning Chinese at Uni doesnt prove that a Country-wide "trend" is in progress .