Negotiating down the electric

[Hal65]

About 2 years ago I moved into a fan room at a guesthouse (in Pattaya). It was a pretty good deal being a 1 bedroom for 5,000/month. Electric for fan rooms was 10 baht/unit. Air con rooms were charged at 8 baht/unit. I got a fairly high bill 3 months in and negotiated my rate down from 10 to 8.

 

Now I'm weighing buying a portable A/C unit. Nothing uses electric like the A/C so it would cost a lot at 8/unit. If I could get 5/unit, that would take a lot off the bill and make more sense. But there are a couple issues:

 

1) My landlord lied when we negotiated one and a half years ago ("I give you 9/unit then ok? Ok fine, 8 baht. But electric company raised rate for me to 7/unit last month"). 

2) Even if he forgot his lie above, wanting a lower electric rate to use A/C that I buy myself, that does not improve the unit, looks like gaming the system.

 

One thing working for me is that I am obviously long term. Most tenants seem to be here for a few months.

 

For you guys good at negotiating, how would you bring down the electric again? Would you just outline the facts and justifications, as I have above? Or would you do something different?

[burningup]

First things first . Dont buy a mobile unit. Google it and search here on TV , most owners just use them as a beer glass stand since they are useless as air con units.

 

Its hard to negotiate after you move in. All you can do is tell him you are out if he wont play ball but since he told you his cost is 7 baht he will let you go rather than lose face and drop to 5 ..he is a liar electricity is about 4 baht in my condo in Bangkok so it wont be more expensive in pattaya

[Get Real]

I would simply check out if I have enough money to stay in Thailand, and rent a place as well as pay my electric bill before I put myself in that position.

Thought ,I´ve heard it all! Coming to stay in Thailand, and then seek advice on how to negotiate to a lower electric bill? Amazing Thainland seem to attract a couple of aazing people too.

[Hal65]

9 minutes ago, burningup said:

First things first . Dont buy a mobile unit. Google it and search here on TV , most owners just use them as a beer glass stand since they are useless as air con units.

 

Its hard to negotiate after you move in. All you can do is tell him you are out if he wont play ball but since he told you his cost is 7 baht he will let you go rather than lose face and drop to 5 ..he is a liar electricity is about 4 baht in my condo in Bangkok so it wont be more expensive in pattaya

 

I've read if you have one with a hose and vent the hot air out, it works decently. The bad ones aka "swamp coolers" run the air over water, which is about the same as using a mister beside a fan.

[richard_smith237]

Best position from which to negotiate is to have another place ready to move into. 

Have reasonable expectations, if the landlord is not prepared to meet these expectations move to the other place. 

 

If you don’t want to move you have no bargaining power. 

 

That said, the law recently changed on the cost of electricity for places renting out 5 rooms or more.. by law the cost of electricity should be at the rate charged by the metropolitan electricity authority...

 

[KneeDeep]

58 minutes ago, Get Real said:

I would simply check out if I have enough money to stay in Thailand, and rent a place as well as pay my electric bill before I put myself in that position.

Thought ,I´ve heard it all! Coming to stay in Thailand, and then seek advice on how to negotiate to a lower electric bill? Amazing Thainland seem to attract a couple of aazing people too.

 

Oh the irony..... people who live in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

I can barely understand what you have written. Perhaps you shouldn't post before you have learned to properly write. Get the point? ?

If the place isn't registered as a hotel, richard_smith237's comments may have it covered

 

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, burningup said:

he is a liar electricity is about 4 baht in my condo in Bangkok so it wont be more expensive in pattaya

This landlord may be paying the commercial rate which is higher than the domestic rate.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, Hal65 said:

I got a fairly high bill 3 months in.......

I wonder what that means?

 

In my large condo I have my air-con on 24/7, and I have a fridge-freezer and an oven and a large TV, and a PC on all the time etc., yet my bill is usually around 1400-1800B/month.

[Hal65]

42 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I wonder what that means?

 

In my large condo I have my air-con on 24/7, and I have a fridge-freezer and an oven and a large TV, and a PC on all the time etc., yet my bill is usually around 1400-1800B/month.

 

183 units last month billed at 1,464 baht. I run 2 fans all day. I have a fridge and laptop running. My 1,300 watt kitchen appliance is on 1 hour a day. Other than that, not sure why I use so many units. But living in 5 places, my bills have always been in this usage range. I think it is the laptop and 2 fans that add up the units.

[Hal65]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

That said, the law recently changed on the cost of electricity for places renting out 5 rooms or more.. by law the cost of electricity should be at the rate charged by the metropolitan electricity authority...

 

 

Would you bring this up? I admit to still not knowing how to handle inconvenient (to the other party) discussions artfully. 

 

Other thing is, maybe he just adds the 700 he loses (or 1000+ if I use AC) to the rent.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Quote

Or would you do something different?

 

I wouldn't have rented there in the first place. 10 Baht per unit is just price gouging, have you seen what your landlord pays to the PEA/MEA? It's less than half what you're being charged. You get A 10,000 Baht bill, he puts over 6000 in his grubby little pocket.

[Hal65]

4 minutes ago, NilSS said:

 

I wouldn't have rented there in the first place. 10 Baht per unit is just price gouging, have you seen what your landlord pays to the PEA/MEA? It's less than half what you're being charged. You get A 10,000 Baht bill, he puts over 6000 in his grubby little pocket.

In Pattaya the cheapest places pull this trick. Then charge 4 to 6 k for the room but hit you with 10 baht/unit electric. I have done the math and it still works out to a deal, but is of course annoying.

 

I theorize that this is a form of price stratification done intentionally at the lower end places. Thais have little need for electric (they don't sweat that much and eat out). We do.

[Get Real]

11 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

 

Oh the irony..... people who live in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

I can barely understand what you have written. Perhaps you shouldn't post before you have learned to properly write. Get the point? ?

If the place isn't registered as a hotel, richard_smith237's comments may have it covered

 

It must be the spelling, saw that I missed aazing. I should be amazing. Hope I helped you now. The rest was not hard to understand, and I will explain it in one sentence for you.

Come to Thailand and have enough money to pay you bills and be happy. 

If you think that is ironic, and has something to do with glass houses??? Advice: Google the meaning of thoose words.

[thailand49]

At best he is getting the rate at 4-5 baht so him matching it? As for Bangkok?  what I sense at times is who you know is the rate an owner might pay.  Here in Pattaya, I have a small apartment unit I pay just over 4 baht.

[spidermike007]

Always buy an inverter unit. They are more expensive, but are so much more efficient, that you end up saving enough in electric to eventually pay for the unit. And every time I install an AC unit in a rental property, I make it clear to the landlord, that when I leave, the AC goes with me. I offer to repair their walls back to the original condition, or leave the AC tubes for the next tenant. That is as far as I will go. Lastly, I prefer to rent homes, where I can pay the meter rate. I do not like getting fleeced on electric, and consider it indecent for a landlord to mark up utilities. So, I do not rent the unit, unless I can get the actual electric bill, and pay the electric myself, at the actual rate. A message to greedy landlords- Get creative. Make your money elsewhere. Not off my electric!

[oldies1]

On zaterdag 11 augustus 2018 at 12:35 PM, Get Real said:

Thought ,I´ve heard it all! Coming to stay in Thailand, and then seek advice on how to negotiate to a lower electric bill? Amazing Thailand seem to attract a couple of amazing people too.

5.000/month, then complaining about electric bill  ☺️

Cheap Charlie strikes again ??

[UKJASE]

can anyone point me to the new regulations that apparently say landlords are not allowed to charge tenants more for the electric than the government rate?

 

i heard this in the bar the other night, but the person was not sure if it had come into effect yet or not

[The Fat Controller]

May 1 2018

 

https://www.tilleke.com/sites/default/files/Feb_18_Residential_Building_Leasing_Business_Subject_to_Contract_Controls_0.pdf

[Hal65]

How would you guys bring up the new electricity law in a non-confrontational way?

 

Non-ideal that it is in English, if anyone has a Thai language link, please post it also

[DrDave]

On 8/11/2018 at 10:58 AM, Hal65 said:

 

183 units last month billed at 1,464 baht. I run 2 fans all day. I have a fridge and laptop running. My 1,300 watt kitchen appliance is on 1 hour a day. Other than that, not sure why I use so many units. But living in 5 places, my bills have always been in this usage range. I think it is the laptop and 2 fans that add up the units.

It's fairly easy to calculate what your usage should be based upon the info you provided, and around 200 units (KWh) per month is about right.

 

Your kitchen appliance is using about 40 units/month, and your laptop is probably well under 25. You'd need to know the wattage of the 2 fans, but assuming 75 watts each, the fans together are using about 110 units. The refrigerator is using the rest.

 

One thing to consider is turning off the fan if you're not in the room. Fans (unless they're drawing in cooler air from outside) do not make a room cooler - they just make you feel cooler due to air movement.

[Hal65]

Argh, forgot to mention my slow cooker (2nd appliance) which is on about 6 hours a day. But nice projections. Didn't realize the fans used that much.

[gaff]

On 8/11/2018 at 9:15 PM, KittenKong said:

I wonder what that means?

 

In my large condo I have my air-con on 24/7, and I have a fridge-freezer and an oven and a large TV, and a PC on all the time etc., yet my bill is usually around 1400-1800B/month.

 

Seems impossible.

1 brand new aircon 10 hours a day already costs around 2000 thb/month.

 

 

[mogandave]

Let me get some popcorn...

[rickudon]

15 hours ago, gaff said:

 

Seems impossible.

1 brand new aircon 10 hours a day already costs around 2000 thb/month.

 

 

Disagree.

 

We live in an old Thai house (so poor insulation) and run one (non-inverter) air-con for 8-10 hours a day. We also run 2 fridge-freezers, 2 drinks fridges and 4 washing machines (run shop). We also have an electric shower, used 6 plus times a day. Several fans on for most of the day. 2 TVs. Various electric kitchen appliances. Numerous lights. About 4 people live there on average all day.

 

Electric bill - comes in at typically just over 2,000 baht.

 

[johng]

Disagree.
 

 
Electric bill - comes in at typically just over 2,000 baht.
 

Seems very low to me considering all those appliances.

[KittenKong]

16 hours ago, gaff said:

Seems impossible.

1 brand new aircon 10 hours a day already costs around 2000 thb/month.

My electric bill with my crappy old no-name non-inverter air-con was around 3,500B-4,000B. Once the new one was installed it immediately dropped to around 40% of that.

 

I should clarify that my air-con (which is on all the time and only gets turned off if I am leaving my condo overnight or longer) is set to 27 degrees, which is the temperature I find most comfortable. Also I pay the domestic rate to the PEA.

[rickudon]

Our air-con is set to 27 centigrade, mainly just on at night. only 12.000 BTU. Washing machines not heavily used maybe 100 washes a month. Drink fridges only on 12 hours a day. lights all LED now. Cooking mainly gas but do have microwave, toaster, halogen oven, and electric barbeque used about once a month.

 

Before shop and aircon bill under 1,000 baht, when we got aircon bill still under 2000 baht.  Only had a 3,000 baht bill in April or May this year. July bill was 2,500 baht (just checked),  June a bit less. Before the extra washing machines our bill in cold season was under 2,000 baht, although didn't use air-con every night.

 

 

[swissie]

I always negotiate up on my electric. While it will increase my electric bill, it will also increase my Karma. My respectable Thai-Landlord told me so.
Cheers.

[mogandave]

Our air-con is set to 27 centigrade, mainly just on at night. only 12.000 BTU. Washing machines not heavily used maybe 100 washes a month. Drink fridges only on 12 hours a day. lights all LED now. Cooking mainly gas but do have microwave, toaster, halogen oven, and electric barbeque used about once a month.
 
Before shop and aircon bill under 1,000 baht, when we got aircon bill still under 2000 baht.  Only had a 3,000 baht bill in April or May this year. July bill was 2,500 baht (just checked),  June a bit less. Before the extra washing machines our bill in cold season was under 2,000 baht, although didn't use air-con every night.
 
 

Three loads of laundry a day? How many kids do you have?

[Felt 35]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:45 AM, Get Real said:

It must be the spelling, saw that I missed aazing. I should be amazing. Hope I helped you now. The rest was not hard to understand, and I will explain it in one sentence for you.

Come to Thailand and have enough money to pay you bills and be happy. 

If you think that is ironic, and has something to do with glass houses??? Advice: Google the meaning of thoose words.

Pay bills double the norm and be happy........?