BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[GinBoy2]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think you're wrong about your comment above re the British Embassy. I hope you're more right about your conversation with your U.S. Embassy contact.

 

 

That above pretty clearly looks like STOPPING to me.

 

The question you all (Americans) should be asking is this.

 

If they are requiring the British Embassy to verify income, why would they apply different standards to other nationalities?

 

Now I ‘think’ actually from my interactions with Brits a lot just rely on their State pension so it should be relatively simple.

 

We tend to be a bit more complicated, using Social Security, IRA’s 401k’s etc

 

Do you think the embassy in Bangkok is going to do the leg work to verify all sources?

 

I just don’t see it

 

So either the Brits are just over hyping it, or if it’s real it’s coming for everyone eventually

[Shouldhaveknownbetter]

Just now, dontoearth said:

  In the US the embassy would not be allowed to check government pensions either.  All of the various income statements would have to be supplied by the individual applying or a sign-off letter giving the embassy power of attorney to exam govt. pensions, bank accounts, etc.   It is just way to complicated.  Our major pension Social Security top range is close to 2K or 65K baht but very few qualify for that much monthly payment, perhaps 5% of the pensioners would get that much.  Then the embassy or thai govt. is left trying to verify private pension letters.  Something even banks are not too skilled at doing from the amount of worldwide fraud that takes place.

I believe Social Security tops out at around 3400 dollars.

[Jingthing]

I'm sure they will continue to issue the affidavits, the issue is whether the immigration department will accept them or not.

Thai immigration may demand evidence to back up the letter as they've always had the right to do. Smart applicants should make true claims in the letter and bring evidence to immigration to present only if it demanded. Never present any document that isn't explicitly required.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rayfork]

So, no overcharged, 50 quid letter to pay for!!

[assayer]

6 hours ago, SkyNets said:

So just get a print out from your Thai bank showing your pension payments. Whats the problem, unless you have been lying.....

Some of us don't have our money going to a Thai Bank, YET.

 

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I asked for a response/comment today from the U.S. Embassy BKK, and have yet to receive any reply.

 

If I was ThaiVisa, should I have ignored what the British Embassy said re the U.S. and sat around waiting before accurately reporting what the British Embassy actually said, rightly or wrongly?

 

I don't think so, and journalism is my profession.

I must be getting old but I thought I saw a Thai name in the press release and now when I went back to look it's gone.  Who wrote the British statement that said the Americans will start doing it?  Who, what, where, when and why. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

But people were originally saying that they were going to stop issuing the Proof of Income Affidavit all together which is not even accurate information for the British Embassy that’s what I meant about the false rumors.  They’re just gonna make people prove they actually do have the money before issuing the document, so okay not as big of a deal as they were making it seem like just an inconvenience is all it really might be.

 

John, now it's you who are repeating false info online.

 

Contrary to what you're saying here now for the 2nd time, the British Embassy has in fact said they are STOPPING issuing income letters for Thai Immigration, not just requiring the applicant to provide proof as you say above.

 

 

Maybe they'll change their mind as a result of all the resulting hubbub. But right now, the Brits are STOPPING, period.

 

[Denim]

Really not such a big deal unless you have a wife or other commitments here.

 

For those that do ...... It will slowly get worse unless you have serious cash to put in a Thai bank ( when you find one that ignores the law and will open an account for you )

 

For the rest , unless you have been foolish enough to buy a property here ( using dubious partners to evade the law ) it is a great reason to leave !

 

If you are still in control of your life there are plenty of places to move to. Not necessarily much better but many offer a new and different experience to Thailand.

 

As long as you don't make the silly mistake of wanting to put down roots in a silly lawless banana state then you are worrying about nothing.  Heavens ......you have already quit the motherland, why limit yourself as to where you go ?

 

You are not really wanted here. The little you spend here is peanuts to the cash earned from the Chinese hoards only recently escaped from surfdom.

 

See the writing on the wall and be flexible.

 

And for those that DO have family commitments here  , ask yourself this....which is more difficult and expensive. Staying here and jumping over ever higher hurdles or taking your wife and children to live in the UK. where the hurdles are if anything, harder to get over than here.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Denim

[MysteryIsland]

If you read the British Embassy announcement it said when you apply for a Retirement or Marriage VISA IN THAILAND you will not get a letter of income.  It does not say for those who have a retirement or marriage visa and are renewing it for another year.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

I must be getting old but I thought I saw a Thai name in the press release and now when I went back to look it's gone.  Who wrote the British statement that said the Americans will start doing it?  Who, what, where, when and why. 

 

I never saw any name associated with the British Embassy email. When I went back to re-read the original TFV post in the original thread, it just said email from the British Embassy to ThaiVisa, not naming the source.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, MysteryIsland said:

If you read the British Embassy announcement it said when you apply for a Retirement or Marriage VISA IN THAILAND you will not get a letter of income.  It does not say for those who have a retirement or marriage visa and are renewing it for another year.

 

I think you're pointlessly splitting hairs on the use and misuse of the terms "visa" and "extension of stay" here by various folks.

 

The British Embassy used the term "visa" in their communication, but from the content of it, they're pretty clearly referring to the extensions of stay that the Embassy income letters support.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Do you think the embassy in Bangkok is going to do the leg work to verify all sources?

 

I just don’t see it

 

So either the Brits are just over hyping it, or if it’s real it’s coming for everyone eventually

 

I think one of the basic differences between the UK and the US context here is the nature of the actual documents each are issuing.

 

From what I understand, the UK document is a certification BY the U.K. Embassy itself.

 

Whereas for the U.S., the income affidavit is a statement by the applicant (not the Embassy) that's merely certified by the Embassy as that person's statement.

 

My sense is that's part of what's causing the issue for the British Embassy. Though, if the U.S. and other country embassies can continue getting away with merely certifying their citizens statements, you kind of have to wonder why the Brits couldn't simply do the same thing.

 

[dontoearth]

14 minutes ago, Shouldhaveknownbetter said:

I believe Social Security tops out at around 3400 dollars.

The maximum monthly Social Security benefit payment for a person retiring in 2018 at full retirement age is $2,788. However, the maximum allowable benefit amount is only payable to those who had the maximum taxable earnings for at least 35 working years.  from the ss website

BTW, full retirement age is 70 and a half in the US.   I would assume you had to make 250K  a year or so to get that kind of money.  I did very well in life over 100 k in  earnings the last 17 years and took the 62 years buyout and ended up with 1100 a month.  I had done my own investing and didn't really need the SS income.  I would have waited until full retirement age but since I had left work I would not get any more money.

[dontoearth]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Sorry. The difference between 2K and 65K is huge, so which is it?

 

If they are in the top range, most probably they don't need to live in a foreign country where everything is different.

  $2K in US Dollars 65Kb in thai baht.  Sorry I didn't put in the $ and B.

[NaamGin]

19 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I'm sure they will continue to issue the affidavits, the issue is whether the immigration department will accept them or not.

 

I received an email from my visa agent a few months ago informing me that any of their US customers using the Income Affidavit method for visa renewal must also include supporting documents that match the Income affidavit amount moving forward. This was in CM, so it may be a specific requirement just for this immigration office. 

[GinBoy2]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think one of the basic differences between the UK and the US context here is the nature of the actual documents each are issuing.

 

From what I understand, the UK document is a certification BY the U.K. Embassy itself.

 

Whereas for the U.S., the income affidavit is a statement by the applicant (not the Embassy) that's merely certified by the Embassy as that person's statement.

 

My sense is that's part of what's causing the issue for the British Embassy. Though, if the U.S. and other country embassies can continue getting away with merely certifying their citizens statements, you kind of have to wonder why the Brits couldn't simply do the same thing.

 

Isn’t that the cruz of this?

 

The decision was made by the British Embassy following a meeting with immigration in May in which they confirmed that they expect the embassy to verify all sources of income of British Nationals requesting an income letter.

 

So, you know as well as I do do, that is not what you get in the affidavit when you raise your right hand.

 

Thats why I don’t see why they would apply a different standard for the Brits versus everyone else.

 

So back to my statement before, either the Brits are just exaggerating the situation, or it’s coming for all

[Issanjohn]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think you're wrong about your comment above re the British Embassy. I hope you're more right about your conversation with your U.S. Embassy contact.

 

 

That above pretty clearly looks like STOPPING to me.

 

That’s false information read the email they sent and see the information to the left.  They inform them about the minimum monthly income requirement and what the savings income is.  For a marriage visa it’s either 400,000 Baht in the bank or a minimum of 40,000 Baht of monthly income.  And it’s a little more for the retirement visa.  Although I agree with you that statement “we are stopping” as in totally stooping is pretty inflammatory and it’s misleading when you read what their email says about proving the income requirements.  I’m just glad that the United States embassy is not doing this.  

 

One thing I did notice is that the British Embassy also wrote on their “we will continue accepting applications until 12 December 2018 now that I didn’t know about.  Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  So that means the British Embassy actually did give their citizens advanced notice after all and are still providing the Proof of Income Affidavits the same way they always have until December for a few more months.  So that’s good news at least.  

 

I wish this website should have included that little detail that they’re still doing it until December because that little piece of information could have prevented a lot of the hysteria that’s going on on this website.  They should have included that and all the facts not just half truths and misinformation.  I think people on here just like to get everyone excited unnecessarily maybe to get more readers or whatever.  The quote on there “we will accept applications until 12 December 2018” ought to put some people’s mind at ease.  That quote actually makes me feel a lot better and this doesn’t even effect me so again thanks for showing me that information because I have not even looked at the British Embassy website.  

 

Additionally if you don’t believe me about my conversation with the United State Embassy call or email them yourself as I did, and look at the United States Embassy website because their website has NO ANNOUNCEMENTS about stopping this same service.  If the British Embassy gave their people at least a few months notice as they have and they are still actually providing the service until December then I am sure the United States Embassy would’ve provide advanced notice as well like the British Embassy did.  Regardless it’s a moot point because I’ve already called and asked about it and it’s a nonissue for United States Citizens.  

 

So apparently I was very wrong about the British Embassy not giving advanced notice because according to this announcement they are actually still providing the service until December which is actually good news for Brits because they still have time to be prepared.  I only thought that the British Embassy didn’t give advanced notice because of what this website has been saying as if it’s some sort of cataclysmic emergency or something.  It’s just a procedural change is all.  Although the way the British Embassy expressed it was way over the top. 

[Shouldhaveknownbetter]

Just now, pookiki said:

I do know that it is possible to direct deposit US social security payments and other pension payments (monthly) to Bangkok Bank in New York and then the money is routed to your Thai Bangkok Bank account.  However, it is a bit of a pain because withdrawals from such an account must be done in person with a passbook.

 

As far as I know, no one has discussed the real irony of this situation in that when a person applies for the initial retirement visa, information is requested on current balances in bank accounts but there is no requirement to show a minimum monthly income or minimum bank balance.  Only when you extend in Thailand. 

 

A US citizen will receive annual statements from Social Security and other pension sources for tax purposes. Would these documents be acceptable to the embassy or the Thai government??  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Bottom line -- I don't see the corruption ending for agents who extend retirement visas for individuals from neighboring countries who have very little income at all!

 

I have a Bangkok bank account which my SS payments go to and I have an ATM card that I could use but I do not accept in emergencies.  I transfer the money from my Bangkok Bank account to another bank using the Internet and then use that bank's ATM for everyday funds.

[baansgr]

6 hours ago, SkyNets said:

So just get a print out from your Thai bank showing your pension payments. Whats the problem, unless you have been lying.....

And what about those that get paid every 3 or 6 months.....I suppose they should just go home...

[Changoverandout]

27 minutes ago, Postmaster said:

I agree with darksidedog

I think the British Embassy have come out of the Meeting with Immigration Officials and realised that this is an opportunity for them to get out of doing this work for British nationals.  Why has it come to a head anyway?

Has some falsification come to light for example ?  My view is that those of us who are organised sufficiently once a year to be able to produce P60's from various pensions and the annual letter which comes notifying the increase in State Pension is verification enough so long as these are original documents. To my mind this is yet another example of lazy civil servants. When I was a civil servant I used to look for extra work not try to defray it.  I wanted to make myself indispensable. There were many around me just sitting counting time towards their pensionable age. Not for me that.

I wish that were true, we do NOT get annual letters NOR annual increase in pension.

[chickenslegs]

A lot of posters have stated that an Embassy letter is a requirement for extensions of stay based on monthly income. I have always believed this to be the case, and I'm sure I've seen it listed as a required document on posters in Jomtien Immigration office.

 

However, here is a a screenshot from the Thailand Immigration Dept website ...

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

 

There is no mention of an Embassy letter - just "evidence of income ..." (see documents to be submitted).

 

 

[dontoearth]

1 minute ago, GinBoy2 said:

Isn’t that the cruz of this?

 

The decision was made by the British Embassy following a meeting with immigration in May in which they confirmed that they expect the embassy to verify all sources of income of British Nationals requesting an income letter.

 

So, you know as well as I do do, that is not what you get in the affidavit when you raise your right hand.

 

Thats why I don’t see why they would apply a different standard for the Brits versus everyone else.

 

So back to my statement before, either the Brits are just exaggerating the situation, or it’s coming for all

   With all due respect the British were the first to cave-in.  Unfortunate because most citizens of most countries believe the embassies are there to uphold their laws properly not cooperate with any tin horn outfit.  I guess that is just wishful thinking.

[Issanjohn]

34 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Yes john no problem, but your Post came over as a little frantic, no worries

I just wanted to express it so people can stop worrying because there’s so much hysteria about this issue.  

[Issanjohn]

30 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I'm sure they will continue to issue the affidavits, the issue is whether the immigration department will accept them or not.

Why wouldn’t they that’s Thai Immigrations requirement for extensions is that Proof of Income Affidavit.  That’s not what changed it is the British Embassy making the change apparently in December.  

[jesimps]

6 hours ago, SkyNets said:

So just get a print out from your Thai bank showing your pension payments. Whats the problem, unless you have been lying.....

There's been nothing official from the Thais saying they'll accept this. Nasty goit to suggest people are lying. Some seem to rejoice in others problems.

[zydeco]

6 minutes ago, NaamGin said:

 

I received an email from my visa agent a few months ago informing me that any of their US customers using the Income Affidavit method for visa renewal must also include supporting documents that match the Income affidavit amount moving forward. This was in CM, so it may be a specific requirement just for this immigration office. 

You said this started "a few months ago" in CM. ThaiVisa's article claims this has been in place since May.  My question is for US and UK people using the letter, how many in the past month or so, who should have been effected by this change, have been required to show any supporting documents?

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Hong Kong is a big bore....

I guess I won't bump into you then. Never mind.

[zydeco]

6 minutes ago, baansgr said:

And what about those that get paid every 3 or 6 months.....I suppose they should just go home...

Good point.  Because many annuities are paid out only once per year.  I know that is the case with my TIAA-Cref contract that supplements my SS. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

That’s false information read the email they sent and see the information to the left.  They inform them about the minimum monthly income requirement and what the savings income is.  For a marriage visa it’s either 400,000 Baht in the bank or a minimum of 40,000 Baht of monthly income.  And it’s a little more for the retirement visa.  Although I agree with you that statement “we are stopping” as in totally stooping is pretty inflammatory and it’s misleading when you read what their email says about proving

 

 

John, I still think you're wrong and misinterpretting the British Embassy info.

 

They're not going to be issuing future income letters, period. The proof they're talking about in the sidebar is the proof that they're telling Brits to submit to directly to Thai Immigration -- not to the British Embassy.

 

Everyone else here clearly understands what the British Embassy has said as STOPPING, period.

[Shouldhaveknownbetter]

Just now, Jingthing said:

To a Thai bank or U.S. bank?

Did they require the statements or did you present them without being asked?

The statement was from Bangkok Bank.  The agent that I used suggested I bring it. I am sure that if you use an USA based bank ATM card and you pull a statement it will show the location of the ATM and that will work.  My feeling is that they just want anything official or not to show incoming money but the Affidavit is the main thing.