2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

You are wrong. The minimum monthly income does not have to be in a Thai bank account. My income has always been paid into my Australian bank account and I have used my Australian Visa debit card at any ATM for the withdrawals. I changed to a Thai bank account 4 months ago

So you reckon your local immigration office will accept either a statement of the Australian account or loads of slips from Thai ATM's as proof of your income?

Just now, Burma Bill said:

Now you Yanks are joining us Brits in all the confusion about CASH in a THAI bank.

Right, we might wind up being mates in the same life boat.  But lets not forget, it was the BE who pulled the plug and sank the ship to fix a minor, pin-hole size leak.    I wouldn't crow about that too much.

4 hours ago, Russell17au said:

I am on the standard Australian Aged pension and I get 43,302B per month

I get $643 per fortnight married wage. My friends are also married, some get $612 and others get $650. Most of us have money also in the bank. Other friends that are not married get $844, single, non-home owner. 

 

$844 gets you barely over the line and if our dollar keeps dropping as it is expected to over the next 5 years, it is going to be a lot less in time. 

 

One of my friends has 700K in the bank, non-home owner and gets almost nothing as a single rate. It is much worse if you are married.

 

We are all very different.

 

 

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Who told the poster the letter was not sufficient?  An immigration official?  An embassy employee?  A fellow at the bar?  A Thai visa poster that was acting like an expert?

I do not know who told the poster. But I do know that there have been a few reports from a few Americans for awhile now that Chiang Mai have asked them for income verification but it does not seem to be with every American, it appears that it is only random

29 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Being an Ozzie I noticed our embassy quickly put out a statement that they will not be changing their stat dec system at all.

It's not a case of whether the embassy is changing their procedures but whether TI will accept it.

40 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So not only are you buying land illegally but you are also staying here illegally.  Did I get that right? 

Absolutely totally wrong. The actual land belongs to my G/F's mother and I paid to have our house built. Could not ask for a better arrangement and I am lucky that we all get on very well. Secondly I am retired here therefore on an Extension to Stay based on Retirement with 800k in the bank. The better option for me as I do not get the 65k a month that others require.

12 minutes ago, Mike Wolfe said:

I spoke to a supervisor by the name of Wattanapong Tawara today at the same immigration office and I made sure I wrote his name down in case a different IO tries to tell me anything different I also wrote down his office phone number but I probably should not post his phone number.  

What did he tell you?

I've always wondered that myself "how do they know I'm not just saying I receive the monthly income that I receive".  I even asked them that at the U.S. Embassy last year and I was told that since you are swearing on a certified official U.S. Government document that you do receive the income that it's actually a felony to lie on that document.  So it's basically perjury to lie on the income affidavit that the U.S. Embassy will continue to provide.  I just figured doesn't make a difference since I actually am being honest about my income every year.  In fact we received a COLA raise since last year so I actually make a little more every month now.    

Anyway the OP never did answer my question yet.  I'd really like to know who he spoke with I know who I spoke with at the same immigration office and I was told exactly the opposite of what he put out.  I wish people would stop spreading rumors I wasn't even planning on posting what they told me today until after I read this post but I felt I had to because there's so much false information and rumors going around about this issue.  

 

"Read this post but I felt I had to because there's so much false information and rumors going around about this issue.  '

 

]These forums have some dodgy characters that are engaging and enjoying fear mongering. Probably a few from OS joining in the fun

 

This is why all genuine posters should only take into account news releases and immigration websites. The rest is just noise

 

 

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

So you reckon your local immigration office will accept either a statement of the Australian account or loads of slips from Thai ATM's as proof of your income?

You want to stop bashing your head against the wall because you are doing yourself some injury. At no time did I say that I had to produce ATM slips as proof of income. It is easy to prove your income. So you do not have any idea what you are talking about as I have been doing the same for 6 years now. So you go and study what the laws are and how they are implemented. Yes, the local immigration offices have accepted my proof of income for the last 6 years without any brown envelopes or using an agent, everything is according to the law.

7 minutes ago, worrab said:

Absolutely totally wrong. The actual land belongs to my G/F's mother and I paid to have our house built. Could not ask for a better arrangement and I am lucky that we all get on very well. 

 

 

You are indeed lucky that you get on well.

 

 

If you did not get on well you would quickly find yourself very unlucky....

6 hours ago, Moon37 said:

It's odd to have to draw a map.  Why would a somewhat well dressed (long pants, button shirt) (handsome - Ha!) having their 5th year renewal be a fraud?  And I had the address written down to the street zone xx/yy, condo name and apt number etc.  I had no idea why this "drawing a map" more than once could vet some one.

I know exactly why, it's because the think you're lying. So they put a little bit of time between each map drawing and look for mistakes between them.

 

They don't believe a word you say.

 

This is the same reason why they occasionally turn up at peoples houses, they want to catch you out.

Just now, ukrules said:

This is the same reason why they occasionally turn up at peoples houses, they want to catch you out.

Ironically, they use the provided map to get there!  ????

From guys I talk to 15,000bht to an agent will take care of things. No worries Mate.

32 minutes ago, Mike Wolfe said:

wasn't planning on posting what I learned today until after I read this post because I went and asked to speak with a supervisor at immigration today and I asked him about this same issue today and that's not what they told me at all.

Mike- thanks for posting.  The earlier post stating the opposite makes me wonder if that Thai Imm Officer did not have the British Embassy situation in her mind and somehow did not understand that not all people are affected and mistakenly thought  this applied to everyone.  I remember the post- the OP said she was a female officer.

Normally  when you go to CW- for an extension of retirement/marriage- your initial discussion is with a basic Io who checks your paperwork and if all in order then sends the paperwork to her immediate supervisor who does a secondary interview- sometimes they ask a question and sometimes they don't-just sign off- you are told to then wait.  The 3rd IO- you normally do not see- he sits in another cubicle and he is the actual person who approves your extension- The other Ios/clerk  pick up the passports and call your name and you are finished. Except for marriage extensions- one reports back in 30 days for final decision.

 

I would tend to agree that no change has been made= since no Embassy has made an announcement and no Thai Imm system other than one person- has come forward with info they will unilaterally not accept the US Embassy Letter. Reports from CM- indicates letter accepted but added proof needed.

 

I have been doing extensions at CW for years and know the system well- most of the Initial IOs are female as well as their supervisors but the senior reps are males. If that was the person you spoke with- I would believe his info- rather than anyone in between.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, ToS2014 said:

I just wonder if the USA did this to all its immigrants?  I'm military retired, VA disabled and on SS disability.  I can PROVE it all.  Show me one immigrant that can..... I digest, off subject I know; but to to all those that have lived on BS income verifications to extend their stay this is/could be a problem.  For those that can and have proof of monthly stability/income you have no worries.  For those that departed their home state to thwart the rules, and then complain about Thai law is....well fill in the blank.

A friend of mine from the UK got some kind of investment visa to the US about 15 years ago, I think he needed to invest $500k USD to get whatever visa he was issued plus employ some number of people, not sure how many.

 

He did that and built a company which is still running to this day even though he moved back to the UK long ago.

 

 

23 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Yes, when police can demand urine sample on the street,

The clique which was caught doing this (or accepting an alternative bribe), began the operation just after their "happy ending massage" racket was shut down.  They were transferred to Nakhon Nowhere, as a result of the bad-press. 

 

In the West, you are less likely to get a urine-test arbitrarily, but almost certain to need one for employment-permission - so, you are still life-wrecked if you can't pass it. 

 

I share your sentiments on invasion-of-privacy and what is essentially forced-testimony against oneself (by State or Employer), but Thailand really isn't the place to be doing things that would cause one to fail that sort of test - many better options for those who have a concern of failing it.

 

23 hours ago, onera1961 said:

tries to track your every movement (by 90-day reporting which is not uniform across all immigration office),

Mail in a form every 3 mo or do online - not the end of the world.  But agree the related TM-30 system is nuts - they need to steamline this into something sane.

 

23 hours ago, onera1961 said:

controls the Web, tries to monitor social media sites, bans e-cigarette, etc. etc. I can give many more examples, for me it is a police state.

Social media is primarily a form of spying / control over private lives - just look at where the early start-up capital for Google, FB, etc came from.  And, again, regarding employment in the West, better be careful what you dare to say on "social media" (regardless of whether it is true), or else.  Big Brother "HR" is watching.

 

17 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I have also kept a small house (around 50K in a rural university town) in the US. Like my summer home but unfortunately I end up there during the snow season ????.

What are the annual property-taxes on a $50K USD place like that, these days? 

 

17 hours ago, onera1961 said:

If you're 65, medicare will take care of you on US soil. You need emergency fund (as you said) to cover you here in Thailand till you're able to move to the USA. 

The irony is, they (Medicare) could save a bundle if they just paid-out to a govt (or even private) hospital in Thailand for the care, instead of making you go back there for it. 

 

Even before I left the USA for good, I used to do "medical tourism" to Mexico for dental - saved 85%+, and still have some decades-old work intact, today.

49 minutes ago, Mike Wolfe said:

I spoke to a supervisor by the name of Wattanapong Tawara today at the same immigration office and I made sure I wrote his name down in case a different IO tries to tell me anything different I also wrote down his office phone number but I probably should not post his phone number.  

Thanks but it really doesn't matter since I pretty much firm in my opinion in my post as to the left hand not knowing what the right-hand does! Every office seem to make their own interpretation of what the head immigration wants thus all the rumors etc.. 

You stay in Thailand for a year and don't do a 90 day report? 

Yep if you do a border run every 89 days you're not here for 90 thereby no need to report as you check in at the border

Sent from my SM-J250F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

37 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You want to stop bashing your head against the wall because you are doing yourself some injury. At no time did I say that I had to produce ATM slips as proof of income. It is easy to prove your income. So you do not have any idea what you are talking about as I have been doing the same for 6 years now. So you go and study what the laws are and how they are implemented.

First the ritual, self-righteous pontification, then...

 

38 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Yes, the local immigration offices have accepted my proof of income for the last 6 years without any brown envelopes or using an agent, everything is according to the law.

...the rather sketchy and incomplete answer.

 

So, at the risk of being pedantic but bearing in mind you said earlier the your money goes into an Australian bank account and you make withdrawals from that account though ATM's while you are here in Thailand:

 

1.  What immigration offices accept your overseas-based proof of income?

 

2.  What exactly do you show the IO's at these immigration offices as your proof of income?

 

Maybe you have already posted this precise information already in one of these fast-growing, common-subject threads and I may have missed it already for which I apologize.

 

Thanks Russell

1 hour ago, Mike Wolfe said:

I wasn't planning on posting what I learned today until after I read this post because I went and asked to speak with a supervisor at immigration today and I asked him about this same issue today and that's not what they told me at all.  

Of course what you were told is 100% correct and the OP was fed a load of lies, how can you be sure that it's not the other way around ?

Of course what you were told is 100% correct and the OP was fed a load of lies, how can you be sure that it's not the other way around ?

Because the liar IO isn't supported by an announcement both on immigration and USA embassy websites

The one telling the truth doesn't need the support of an announcement

What's causing your confusion?

4 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Because the liar IO isn't supported by an announcement both on immigration and USA embassy websites

The one telling the truth doesn't need the support of an announcement

What's causing your confusion?

I'm not confused, I'm reading directly opposing stories and I don't doubt that both posters are explaining what happened exactly as it happened, word for word.

 

That one immigration supervisor knows more than another should be expected.

 

There is zero clarity here right now, it's not confusion.

3 hours ago, Russell17au said:

You are wrong. The minimum monthly income does not have to be in a Thai bank account. My income has always been paid into my Australian bank account and I have used my Australian Visa debit card at any ATM for the withdrawals. I changed to a Thai bank account 4 months ago

Maybe this is where we started talking at cross angles?

 

What you state above is true when taken in context of the state of play BEFORE the BE advised that their income letters would no longer be forthcoming. Indeed, for the past 7 years, I have extended successfully with a BE income letter issued after they looked at my proof of income in an overseas bank.

 

My subsequent posts regarding Thai Immigration only being interested in the two methods of money in a Thai bank account is based on the situation now; that is after the BE income letters will cease. This has been confirmed by the BE's press release and the comments by the BE's documentation lady on the radio interview relating to this issue.

 

Now, I stand to be corrected if some Immigration offices will accept evidence of money in a foreign account WITHOUT any supporting, foreign government-issued or endorsed bit of paper. However, as I asked in my slightly earlier post, which Immigration offices and what foreign-sourced documentation do they accept?

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Can't set an alarm clock 2+ months ahead.

no calendar to remind you or app on your phone? lol

18 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Because the liar IO isn't supported by an announcement both on immigration and USA embassy websites

The one telling the truth doesn't need the support of an announcement

What's causing your confusion?

Incredibly naive about government worker's veracity post of the day award goes to...

Why doesn't the bloody Thai Immigration office make a clear statement, like as from 1 January 2019 all "Proof of Income letters from all Embassy's will not be accepted, eg, affidavit, Stat Decs. To me it is still unclear, are we talking about an actual written letter produced by the Embassy with accompanying income documentation from your home country?

For me, I go to the Australian Embassy with official government pension supporting documents from Australia, These documents are attached to a Statuary Declaration declaring my income. The embassy merely checks the statuary declaration and supporting documentation and rubber stamps them with an official embassy stamp and signs and dates the Statuary Declaration as a witness. At no point is there any computer checks to verify my income that I know of.

 

I am due for renewal in December, will be interesting as to what I will be told when I apply this year at my local Immigration Office.

3 hours ago, blackhorse said:

He forgot about the 800 k? Dude that's not a slip up. It's the biggest mistake he could possibly make. Iimmigration could care less about the do you know who I am story that would have transpired

Rules are rules. Your mate is a fool, to much thinking with the little head me thinks

I think you missed my point.  Why is it that a deadbeat can stay here by lying about his monthly income by simply swearing he makes 65K a month with no proof and a guy who has over a million in cash is told to take a walk?  Of course he flucked up. I was curious about the logic of it all. Not that there is any in the Land of Scams.

41 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Thanks but it really doesn't matter since I pretty much firm in my opinion in my post as to the left hand not knowing what the right-hand does! Every office seem to make their own interpretation of what the head immigration wants thus all the rumors etc.. 

This.

3 hours ago, Mike Wolfe said:

The man I spoke with today is a very senior level immigration supervisor and he told me exactly the opposite of what you posted.  So far you're the first person to post any information about this and it only came from one immigration officer, and I'm the second person.  What was the immigration supervisors name?  I'm really curious to know if you spoke to the same IO as I did which was the same immigration office as well.  I really want to know who you spoke with, I know who I spoke with at immigration.  Again according to him they will continue to accept the income affidavits next year and they have no plans to change the process for any citizen of any country and that came from a high level immigration supervisor at the same office.   

I thought so.  Until unfounded rumors of new rules are posted on Thia Immigration websites or other legal outlets, people should be calm.  So far, 28 pages of near hysteria for an unconfirmed rumor.  People need to listen to UbonJoe and not people crawling out of the woodwork to spread rumors.

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

I know exactly why, it's because the think you're lying. So they put a little bit of time between each map drawing and look for mistakes between them.

 

They don't believe a word you say.

 

This is the same reason why they occasionally turn up at peoples houses, they want to catch you out.

It is one of those things lied to enough and you will start asking for proof.