Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[Ban Phe Dezza]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Multiply fortnightly income by 26 then divide by 12 for the monthly amount.  At 23 baht to the dollar that's a bit over 42,000.

Enough for the marriage visa requirements, to which I think Will was referring, but well short of the requirements for retirees.

Not if you are Married to a Non Australian EG Thai the Pension drops to Roughly $630 pfn  or in Baht terms 

1,260AUD =30,001.77THB  the basic pension is not enough unless centrelink does not know and that is a different issue 

[wharria]

I travel back to the UK every year and obtain an multi entry  'O' visa, The requirements now are over 50 years of age and prove an income of £1200 per month or if over 65 you can show proof of a Government pension. Prior to this you had to prove an income of £900 per month. The visa fee used to be £75 and is now £125.

They will only accept cash payment at the Embassy and if applying by post only Postal Orders are accepted which increases the cost by another £30+ with the postage.

[DJ54]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I've been expecting it for a couple years now, but it'll happen because they want you gone.

Not necessarily could be their efforts to weed out ones that really 

abused the letter with income that is low and perhaps doing something illegal to survive. 

 

We cant always think their out to get us. When I totally retire 

it could be a stretch although minor. Hopefully they’ll clean 

up those they’re targeting.

 

Come back and say ok mission accomplished here’s some new requirements that are favorable for those of you that show you

like it here and show it. 

 

I know I’m dreaming but one can only hope! And to break the ice some beautiful cars...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pattaya46]

15 minutes ago, balo said:

Just use a visa agent instead , to avoid all this mess. 

Apparently many "agents" are now unwelcomed at Pattaya Immigration...

and I am rather happy of that 

[AGareth2]

16 minutes ago, balo said:

Just use a visa agent instead , to avoid all this mess. 

bring in 65 k a month and send back what you don't use

doesn't say you can't

[OmarZaid]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

It's designed to force expats to actually prove they can meet the financial criteria instead of signing a possibly fraudulent stat dec.

Exactly --- they want the lying riff-raff gone

[totally thaied up]

2 minutes ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

Not if you are Married to a Non Australian EG Thai the Pension drops to Roughly $630 pfn  or in Baht terms 

1,260AUD =30,001.77THB  the basic pension is not enough unless centrelink does not know and that is a different issue 

Yep, I am married and it does not even come close. If retired, does not even come close and immigration knows it. Combo method cannot be used if married. You will need to show interest or dividends to meet the slack if married. Easiest method is keeping 400K in a bank.

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

The question is why now and whether the Thai government is behind it to force expats to bring more money into the country or is it a cahoot of the US, UK and the aussie governments for reasons that are know only to them...

Much more likely that the numbers of retirees etc suspected to have been playing the system and falsifying their income documents has risen to the level that Immigration had enough of it.  You all know who you are, you are the ones responsible. 

 

I suppose that poetic justice is seeing to it that those who did that, i.e. they couldn't meet income requirements legally so they goosed everyone else, are the ones that will suffer in the end!

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, Will27 said:

Surely it will mean a lot of people (not just Aussies) will be going to places like Savannakhet and HCMC

for visas now.

Why?  Are the financial requirements for a retirement extension to a visa issued in those places different?  Serious question.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

I'd suggest that the ones who don't have been using the stat dec method from the embassy.

I'd suggest that the ones who don't have been misusing the stat dec method from the embassy!

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

... They have NEVER accepted the 65k a month into a Thai bank, ...

Citation needed.

 

Do you know or have read about anyone trying it and being declined? Maybe there's a band of silently happy long-termers who have been doing it this way for years and have never had issues and right now they are having a right old giggle at all this panic.

 

[Will27]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Under Australian law, the person who signs a stat dec knowing it is false may be imprisoned for 4 years. The policeman, lawyer, public servant, school teacher and other honourable people who WITNESS your signature on the document bear NO responsibility for the substance of the document.

 

This is no different from the system that applies in 101 civilized countries all around the world.

They (Stat Decs) are still not worth the paper they're written on.

 

MAY be imprisoned.

I haven't heard of many, if any.

[wonder6281]

At least I won't need to go the Embassy anymore. That's a positive. 

[OJAS]

43 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

And in the case of UK, cost the NHS a good few thousand pounds to look after those re-patriated guys.

Plus the cost to DWP of unfreezing their State Pensions!

[chingmai331]

Have not read all these pages but i think probably the Thai Immig does not want all farangs gone, but rather to 'give' more money to Thai banks. The banks do nothing to get the foreign money but can support various loans to Thai businesses, etc.

And of course, the Thai Monarchy recently invested lots of money in Siam Comm Bank so naturally he wants more cash (our cash) into the Thai banking system.  Of course, he is a great guy but who can afford lousy investments when the remedy is so easy.

More here:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-16/thai-king-now-holds-crown-property-bureau-s-billions-in-assets

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Citation needed.

 

Do you know or have read about anyone trying it and being declined? Maybe there's a band of silently happy long-termers who have been doing it this way for years and have never had issues and right now they are having a right old giggle at all this panic.

 

of course it's been accepted, in conjunction with the embassy letter, now the step forward has to be, without the embassy letter but only TI can decide that and as of yet they have said nothing.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, cleverman said:

No mention of military pensions, which can be proved, they say they won't issue the stat. Dec. as they can't prove the income. Military pensions are proof positive. It is not I who needs to read again .

Since you have apparently already sh!t in your local immigration nest, as an Aussie ex- special forces bloke, maybe you need to pluck up the courage and go ask them yourself if they will accept a piece of paper issued by a foreign government, quoting figures in a foreign currency that is not written in Thai.

 

We'll wait.

[fvw53]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That has been discussed over and over again the other topics about the embassy income proof. All 3 embassy are saying that you can prove you income by transfer the required income of 40k or 65k baht in a Thai bank. But immigration have not confirmed that will be accepted.

Not sure why you would think immigration would double the money in the bank. There is no basis for stating that.

 

The Embassies changing their involvement should give notice at least 3 months in advance... better still 6 months

[Russell17au]

Now with the loss of income for the Australian Embassy Notarial Service it will mean a reduction in staff levels so there will be more Thai's out of work and then Australia will not need the fortress that they are in now so they will do the same as the Brits and sell it off even though it is only new and possibly move into the same office tower that the New Zealand and British embassies are in

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

Now with the loss of income for the Australian Embassy Notarial Service it will mean a reduction in staff levels so there will be more Thai's out of work and then Australia will not need the fortress that they are in now so they will do the same as the Brits and sell it off even though it is only new and possibly move into the same office tower that the New Zealand and British embassies are in

cosy

[Will27]

17 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Why?  Are the financial requirements for a retirement extension to a visa issued in those places different?  Serious question.

There is no financial requirements required for a non-o visa based on marriage at those 2 places.

[garyk]

Wonder who else will be joining the party before January 1? 

[maxisrael]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

And not just those issued by the American, Australian and British embassies either!

This is bull

 

If i want the letter from my embassy i have to show my (state) pension(s)  and other income original papers AND my tax papers so they only show net income with is stated on the declaration

[Will27]

16 minutes ago, wonder6281 said:

At least I won't need to go the Embassy anymore. That's a positive. 

What about to vote or to renew your passport??

[nausea]

Personally, I think the Thais mucked up, I doubt they expected this reaction. I also blame those embassies that were issuing statutory declarations willy-nilly without any proof at all, which I guess prompted this initiative. If the agent route fails we'll probably see a mass migration to Cambodia. I'm sure they'll welcome the money. Pensioners don't live here on zilch, and whether it's 30,000bt or 63,999bt a month it all goes into the Thai economy, no-one is sending money home. Why people who have a genuine pension of 64 thou are worrying is beyond me, you have the documentation, just show it; the embassy letter was always just a gloss for me anyway, as a UK guy.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, nausea said:

Personally, I think the Thais mucked up, I doubt they expected this reaction. I also blame those embassies that were issuing statutory declarations willy-nilly without any proof at all, which I guess prompted this initiative. If the agent route fails we'll probably see a mass migration to Cambodia. I'm sure they'll welcome the money. Pensioners don't live here on zilch, and whether it's 30,000bt or 63,999bt a month it all goes into the Thai economy, no-one is sending money home. Why people who have a genuine pension of 64 thou are worrying is beyond me, you have the documentation, just show it; the embassy letter was always just a gloss for me anyway, as a UK guy.

A gloss for you but a must for IO

[misterphil]

I transfer £2,500 (107,000 THB) each month from the UK to my Thai Kasikorn account. Can this be classed as an average monthly income? 

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

Have not read all these pages but i think probably the Thai Immig does not want all farangs gone, but rather to 'give' more money to Thai banks. The banks do nothing to get the foreign money but can support various loans to Thai businesses, etc.

I considered this, when this first arose - but as pointed out in the other threads on this letter-topic, Thailand has huge foreign-reserves, so this doesn't make sense.  I really doubt this decision came from the banks or other higher-authorities. 

I think immigration considered the embassy-letter system to be cutting into their agent-money and decided to terminate it, by demanding what they knew many foreign nation's laws would not permit (privacy laws, etc).

[sumrit]

  

Quote

 

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

It's designed to force expats to actually prove they can meet the financial criteria instead of signing a possibly fraudulent stat dec.

 

39 minutes ago, OmarZaid said:

Exactly --- they want the lying riff-raff gone

  

Pure conjecture but, once we've all legally proved and confirmed our income while living in Thailand, they could change the rules further. The next step could be for us to complete a Tax Return form from the Thai Tax Office. Having to pay Tax in Thailand on money earned elsewhere would be bad enough but, for those on the fiddle, having to pay tax on income they don't actually have, but fiddled the figures to get a visa................ ????????

 

And insisting we all put our incomes in a Thai bank to match those using the 800/400k baht method, then taxing all of us on our incomes would create a lot of income for the Government.

 

[JackThompson]

 

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

2 hours ago, TSF said:

Looks like all farang living in Thailand on annual extensions will now need to have the 400K & 800K THB in a Thai bank account in order to continue living in Thailand. Now, just wait and see if next year they'll double the required sums. I've been expecting it for a couple years now, but it'll happen because they want you gone.

The 800K hasn't been increased for many years so it would be no surprise to see an increase, but tell me, why would the Thai government want us gone?

Only gone if we aren't paying agent-laundered "tribute" to them.  In-person applicants don't pay tribute, so are being whittled-away.  The reality following TI's previous crackdowns demonstrate the only purpose was increasing this sort of "tribute." 

 

45 minutes ago, Shiver said:

I haven't followed the whole of all the threads on this topic, so apologies if I'm repeating someone else's comments, but...

 

Wouldn't it be better for all concerned that they just demand some money be kept on escrow (eg. $2000) so that if they have a need to send you back for some reason, they're doing it on the foreigners funds, then do like Cambodia and charge a few hundred dollars for a 1 year visa, and forget the 90 day thing, and make life more simple for all concerned?

Sure - But how would that make agent-money or elite-money for immigration to pocket?  They could just require "stabilize and send-home" health-insurance, and all "foreigner" potential liabilities would be covered - hence no need to peek into private financial matters at all.  Any foreign beggar/vagrants (who managed to pay for the health-insurance) would be picked-up and deported on-sight.

 

37 minutes ago, poanoi said:

hoping they will just ditch requirements altogether beside stating how much they want per year, its more transparent, its easier to compare

living cost with other nations, it will end immigration corruption just like that, and to top it off the state of thailand makes more money

"End immigration corruption" is not the goal.  In-person applications for extensions do not (usually) generate under-the-table money, so they become harder and harder for more and more people every year.  Meanwhile, agent-applications remain trouble-free, with no money, home-visits, TM-30s, etc needed.  This embassy-letter change aims to eliminate another class of people who could previously do honest, in-person, corruption-free applications of stay.

If anything is clear, it is that regulations are not changed for the benefit of the "State of Thailand" or her wonderful people.  If that were the goal, all those expats already forced-out by previous immigration-changes would be welcomed back to resume spending their foreign-sourced capital here, so that the businesses I watched be boarded-up could re-open and re-hire Thais.