Income statement letters from embassies no longer required, confirms Phuket Immigration

[MrMo]

I share the concerns expressed on accounts with Thai banks.   It's not the banks I distrust but the possibility of orders imposed on them from above  

 

That's primarily why my bulk money (800k) is with a foreign bank and has been for decades.   The government is likely to think twice before it siezes from a British, Japanese or other such financial institutions.   The ATM cards work all over the country and, from experience, they are more likely to issue foreigners with a credit card.

[MekkOne]

8 hours ago, fforest1 said:

191 embassies who after a few months now have said nothing...

it never came to your mind that some embassies had never issued this kind of letter?

[eggers]

Once again, the reporting is appalling + as already stated, this report from an outpost of Thai Immigration!! ..

 

Frankly, Thai Immigration has been lacking in clear information in this whole matter!!

It's one thing to stop using Embassies, but Thai Immigration, in particular,Maj-General Surachate Hakpal, needs to get off his media self promotion & clearly explain what alternative information will be acceptable!!!.. 

 

Instead, have a "hotch potch" of information being suggested by all & sundry...

 

Finally, UK, US, Australian & Danish embassies have shown couldn't give a "flying fart" about their citizens; "not our problem" .... a F****'n disgrace !! Lost my respect!!! 

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, eggers said:

Finally, UK, US, Australian & Danish embassies have shown couldn't give a "flying fart" about their citizens; "not our problem" .... a F****'n disgrace !! Lost my respect!!! 

Have felt that way for a long time. although when a Brit friend died  here their input and help were good.

Edited November 23, 2018 by jacko45k

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, BertM said:

Don't get too excited... Nothing new. OP is very misleading. IO head only said the letters were not required and 800k bank account method was accepted. He DID NOT say monthly income method without income letter was accepted. See his quote below...

 

Of course this letter is no longer needed if the embassy no longer issues it,” Col Archeep explained to The Phuket News today (Nov 22).

“However, the foreigner applying for the visa (or permit-to-stay) will still have to prove that they have the funds to stay in the country, such as by showing bank statements that prove the foreigner has B800,000 in a Thai bank account,” he said.

''prove that they have the funds........such as 800k....'' doesn't exclude the income method, it just isn't specifically mentioned.

Whatever, movement in IO is happening, earlier than I thought. This isn't the end, but as Churchill said, it is the end of the beginning, we need direction from TI in BKK, this will happen, this will be resolved.

[CMNightRider]

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.  No foreigner in their right mind would put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank just to obtain a one year visa.  Someone must have bumped their head when they came up with this idea.

 

[thesetat2013]

Has anyone ever considered that this is Thailand's way of getting their banks some hard cash that they can use to get out of financial trouble... Seems they are pushing the 800,000 more than anything.. What other motives can they be doing this for? 

Anyone here thinking outside the box discussed in this platform? 

[Hockeybik]

12 hours ago, darksidedog said:

..."I feel somewhat betrayed by the Embassies. You can guarantee they will not be there in our corner if/when our cash has vanished."

Someone correct me if I am wrong here... but at least in the case of the US Embassy they never really swore that you had the income anyway, YOU swore under oath in an affidavit in front of an Embassy official that YOU receive the income. Thai immigration wanted the EMBASSY to swear and verify that you have the income. It is totally understandable that the embassies could not do that either from a practical stand or from a legal stand. The demand by Thai immigration is unreasonable - in my opinion. They should and could accept past statements from US or other banks outside of Thailand. For US retirees it's easy to get a letter from SSA that verifies they are sending you money every month. Thailand should be paving the path to retirement visas with gold. Found money for the Kingdom. They should be making it THE retirement destination of the world instead of continually putting up blocks.

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.  No foreigner in their right mind would put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank just to obtain a one year visa.  Someone must have bumped their head when they came up with this idea.

 

What's wrong with Thai banks ? BKK Bank and Kasikorn are international banks with a reputation to consider, the Baht continues to rise on the FX markets and is stable, Thailand has large FX reserves and is one of the least affected Asian countries affected by the turmoil in the markets.

[Hockeybik]

6 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

Has anyone ever considered that this is Thailand's way of getting their banks some hard cash that they can use to get out of financial trouble... Seems they are pushing the 800,000 more than anything.. What other motives can they be doing this for? 

Anyone here thinking outside the box discussed in this platform? 

How many expat retirees do you think are in Thailand? Anyone know? Any guesses? Interesting idea but would the totals be significant? 

[Peterw42]

The OP may as well say motorbike helmets no longer required if you now drive a car. 

[Hockeybik]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

What's wrong with Thai banks ? BKK Bank and Kasikorn are international banks with a reputation to consider, the Baht continues to rise on the FX markets and is stable, Thailand has large FX reserves and is one of the least affected Asian countries affected by the turmoil in the markets.

I'd rather not hold that much in one place but the major Thai banks are probably no worse than other banks in the region.

 

[roquefort]

8 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

As far as I am aware, Thai immigration have demanded that embassies actually verify our income statements rather than simply notarise them and, so far, 4 embassies have said no, get stuffed. Nothing strange about that. They have not said they will not accept income letters from those 4 embassies, it is those 4 embassies that have said they cannot issue letters that comply with the demands of Thai immigration.

How hard can it be for the embassies to verify income statements? I have used the income method for years and the British Embassy always demanded copies of my pension statements before issuing the letter.

Verification done.

[jacko45k]

30 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.  No foreigner in their right mind would put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank just to obtain a one year visa.  Someone must have bumped their head when they came up with this idea.

 

I assure you many many foreigners have deposited 800,000 baht in a Thai bank to get their retirement extension, and live on! Most of the ones I know I would define being sober minded. Insane would be to go back to the UK and live a miserable retirement because, in a huff, I had a distrust of local banks or am annoyed at the actions of my Embassy.

[Hockeybik]

3 minutes ago, roquefort said:

How hard can it be for the embassies to verify income statements? I have used the income method for years and the British Embassy always demanded copies of my pension statements before issuing the letter.

Verification done.

They did not verify with the agency or bank or whoever was paying you, they only verified what you showed them. I think Thai Immigration wanted the embassies to verify all the way back to the source and you are not a valid source.

[Formaleins]

That headline is garbage and misleading, not at all helpful to anyone on this site. Should be ashamed for printing it.

[jacko45k]

23 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

Has anyone ever considered that this is Thailand's way of getting their banks some hard cash that they can use to get out of financial trouble... Seems they are pushing the 800,000 more than anything.. What other motives can they be doing this for? 

Anyone here thinking outside the box discussed in this platform? 

I would get back in the box! ????

Do you think the input of a few thousand retirees is substantial to the Thai economy currently valued at 15.450 trillion baht, the 8th largest economy of Asia.

[garzhe]

13 hours ago, fforest1 said:

This is great so I dont need any money to get a one year extension...Yahoo...

Please read the article again

[KiChakayan]

9 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes.  But it is unfortunate that he only mentioned the method which has never required an embassy letter, and did not elaborate on what those of us who relied on those letters to qualify, might do in the future.

Why would this be unfortunate? He did a great job, not giving any information he didn't have. The only thing he's got at this stage is that anyone can extend with a 800k deposit. Being Thai he is probably puzzled by all this agitation, why not just wait and see?

[wwest5829]

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The only thing coming from immigration I will pay attention to is when it comes from the Immigration Bureau not some head of a local office.

It is certainly lacking any useful information in IMO.

Agreed. The US diplomatic mission presenting in Chiang Mai stated that they had met with Thai Immigration officials in Bangkok and it was affirmed that the regulation had not changed. 800K retirement, 400K marriage in the bank OR the monthly income 65K retirement, 40K marriage.

[Peterw42]

34 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

Has anyone ever considered that this is Thailand's way of getting their banks some hard cash that they can use to get out of financial trouble... Seems they are pushing the 800,000 more than anything.. What other motives can they be doing this for? 

Anyone here thinking outside the box discussed in this platform? 

Over a 12 month period, income method or lump sum method is the same amount of money 800k pa. There is no net gain to the amount of money in thai banks each year.

[BigT73]

Theres always the option of Citibank which you can open from home country (where possible) and one in Thailand.  They have free international transfers up to $100,000 aud per day from selected countries and instant global transfers.  You could park your money the required 2 or 3 mnths then send the bulk of it back after the extension.  They also have foreign currency accounts which you can convert to baht. 

May be worth a read.

 

https://www.citibank.com.au/aus/banking/making_transfers.htm

https://www.citibank.com.au/aus/banking/moving-overseas.htm

 

 

[garzhe]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I would get back in the box! ????

Do you think the input of a few thousand retirees is substantial to the Thai economy currently valued at 15.450 trillion baht, the 8th largest economy of Asia.

Cant help thinking there is some method in this madness. Pure speculation but I think the next step will be to allow pensions paid in to Thai banks to be acceptable as proof of income. Then, guess what ! you become taxable in Thailand.

[newnative]

Very bad headline, as is often the case.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, garzhe said:

Cant help thinking there is some method in this madness. Pure speculation but I think the next step will be to allow pensions paid in to Thai banks to be acceptable as proof of income. Then, guess what ! you become taxable in Thailand.

If we need to speculate I would bet they found a few people living and working in Thailand or misbehaving who were here based on an income Stat Dec or Affidavit that in reality was false.

[ginjag]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I assure you many many foreigners have deposited 800,000 baht in a Thai bank to get their retirement extension, and live on! Most of the ones I know I would define being sober minded. Insane would be to go back to the UK and live a miserable retirement because, in a huff, I had a distrust of local banks or am annoyed at the actions of my Embassy.

Insane ??   For 11 years when I started my old age pension (at that time I never saw in writing that if I moved to Thailand not normally residing in the UK, that I would not get increment increases)  So the pension is static at 87 pound sterling. Back home I would receive above 160 pound and winter payments NHS, transport discounts and the rest.  Summing up the UK would be far worse off if I returned.  So WT& are they thinking by capping my pension ??  an official told me it is because I am not spending the money on the UK   Ha Ha Ha.  but in the Philip you receive the full amount, even if you are not residing in the UK.

But on topic the pension given out in full makes a big difference to the cash in the bank and the pension.   Maybe I was stupid in changing my address on my UK bank statement, and yearly statement from the pension department.  Being honest does not pay in this respect.   As many friends over here get full pension. 

[fred110]

12 hours ago, nasa123 said:

But in Phuket and Pattaya ++ can you NOT open a bank account in any bank if you don't have a B-Visa and work permit. The banks here are afraid of money laundering and black money, so here are not Immigration in phuket with on their own rules.

No, I use Bangkok bank with retirement extention.

[jabis]

1 minute ago, garzhe said:

 

Thats right but do you know anyone declaring pensions paid in to a foreign bank who registered with the Thai tax office and pays taxes in Thailand. As far as Im aware Thailand has never pursued foreign residents to collect tax on pensions payed abroad.

Hehe, they don't pursue even their own citizens in that regard, tho I'd suggest most foreign-owned companies are the ones paying most of the income tax anyways ????

[Suradit69]

10 hours ago, fforest1 said:

So your saying ALL other embassies are just fine with verifying income?
I say not a chance in hell... 

Probably at least some of the others are a bit more casual in their interpretation of "verified" and "proof," especially those whose officials aren't fluent in English ... since most of the noise surrounding all this has been in English and/or Thai.

 

In many threads in the past, posters from several countries other than the US enjoyed posting negative comments about Americans who supposedly claimed unrealistic amounts of income on their embassy income affidavits. They went on to claim that their own wonderful embassy diligently verified the amounts that they were claiming.

 

And then, voila, at least one of those wonderful, diligent embassies was the first to announce they couldn't verify the income of their nationals.

 

And one of the most vocal critics on TV (who comes from one of the Scandinavian countries) has recently posted comments suggesting that he's suddenly concerned that his embassy may soon be in the same position and that we should all sing a round or two of Kumbaya.

 

It seems reasonable to conclude that someone in the Ministry of Home Affairs reads at least some of the threads on media platforms such as Thai Visa, particularly those threads dealing with immigrations issues ... such posts commenting on over-stayers, visa runs, Ed visas, visa agents and, of course, extensions ... and there have eventually been reactions. 

 

23 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

If we need to speculate I would bet they found a few people living and working in Thailand or misbehaving who were here based on an income Stat Dec or Affidavit that in reality was false.

They may have been actually "found" or they just read about them on Thai Visa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Suradit69

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, eggers said:

Finally, UK, US, Australian & Danish embassies have shown couldn't give a "flying fart" about their citizens; "not our problem" .... a F****'n disgrace !! Lost my respect!!! 

To be honest, I would need respect for my embassy in the first place before it would be possible to lose it.

 

That said, in the case of this issue, the 4 embassies that have so far informed their citizens that they cannot comply with the requirements of Thai immigration to prove individual income are ironically being more transparent with their ex-pats than the rest, and have been pro-active by making the announcement. This is of course in the understanding that the requirement from immigration has been asked of all embassies/consulates.

 

So far, Denmark has been the first to issue notice 'with immediate effect'. IMO, this is the first country of many to do this in the next few months. The reason for this thinking is that the embassies do not have the resources to comply, and by resources I mean the authority, manpower or time to check and confirm any individual's claim to the required incomes. This is not going to change anytime soon, especially with the re-writing of global privacy laws.

 

It is very easy to Dis your own embassy for not 'taking care of it's citizens', but before you do, you need to understand they don't have the amount of power that many assume they do have in another nation's backyard.

 

The answers lie with Thai immigration as to how this plays out, not to the embassies, who have to follow the requirements of the country that they have pitched their tents in. And again, IMO, this issue needs to be addressed by immigration very soon to lay the ground rules as it isn't going away.

Edited November 23, 2018 by chrisinth