UK Pensions (2018)

[beautifulthailand99]

13 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Whilst I'm inclined to agree, I doubt very much if the such a question would be chosen.

I also doubt if either of the main parties would commit to unfreezing pensions, they're too busy appeasing those who want Brexit at any cost, many of who have no interest whatsoever in justice for those expat pensioners who are affected by this rule and are unlikely to be swayed by a commitment to address it. 

Precisely and couple that with their being no votes in the frozen expat pensions and a cost of £3 bn never going to happen. If anything an impecunious chancellor looking for easy savings may even think of extending the country list particularly if we Brexit. 

 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-6704467/Frozen-expat-state-pension-Itd-cost-3bn-five-years-thaw-them.html

 

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Precisely and couple that with their being no votes in the frozen expat pensions and a cost of £3 bn never going to happen. If anything an impecunious chancellor looking for easy savings may even think of extending the country list particularly if we Brexit. 

 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-6704467/Frozen-expat-state-pension-Itd-cost-3bn-five-years-thaw-them.html

 

 

 

If ???

 

An impecunious chancellor would consider UK pensions only being paid to claimants within the UK......... as with Bereavement Benefits.

[billzant]

Tweet from ICBP "Delighted to see @UKLabour commit to ensuring 'the pensions of UK citizens living overseas rise in line with pensions in Britain' in #LabourManifesto. It is time to #EndFrozenPensions and give the half a million UK state pensioners living overseas the pension they deserve" 

End Frozen Pensions @pensionjustice

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, billzant said:

Tweet from ICBP "Delighted to see @UKLabour commit to ensuring 'the pensions of UK citizens living overseas rise in line with pensions in Britain' in #LabourManifesto. It is time to #EndFrozenPensions and give the half a million UK state pensioners living overseas the pension they deserve" 

End Frozen Pensions @pensionjustice

Blimey apoplexy for the Brexiteers amongst us who will of course have to decry commie Corbyn and continue to accept their penury along with their principles. Boris told the just over 60 woman last night who just lost out on her pension tough tittie luv we aint any money for that. And this is the triple locked pension to boot. Anyway good that they wouldn't sell out their principles for a naked handout and most anyway won't have a vote. 

 

A Government spokesperson said: 'It would cost the taxpayer more than £3billion over five years to change course on an issue which has been clear and settled government policy for seven decades, so we naturally have no plans to do so.'

 

[ivor bigun]

10 hours ago, billzant said:

Tweet from ICBP "Delighted to see @UKLabour commit to ensuring 'the pensions of UK citizens living overseas rise in line with pensions in Britain' in #LabourManifesto. It is time to #EndFrozenPensions and give the half a million UK state pensioners living overseas the pension they deserve" 

End Frozen Pensions @pensionjustice

It was Blair  who faught tooth and nail right up to the court of human rights to ensure pensiones were not increased ,anyone who thinks Labour would upgrade pensions is living in cloud cukoo land . no party would 'waste" money on us .

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

It was Blair  who faught tooth and nail right up to the court of human rights to ensure pensiones were not increased ,anyone who thinks Labour would upgrade pensions is living in cloud cukoo land . no party would 'waste" money on us .

I fail to see how  dismissing a manifesto pledge to uprate pensions overseas simply because it appears in the ' wrong party ' does the campaign any good.

Without dragging this into a political debate , it became Labour Policy 2017 . The first time any official opposition party has supported unfreezing pensions.

 

[OJAS]

12 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

If ???

 

An impecunious chancellor would consider UK pensions only being paid to claimants within the UK......... as with Bereavement Benefits.

 

As already appears to be the case for our Aussie cousins (if my understanding of the Australian Aged Pension thread is correct)???

 

 

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

It was Blair  who faught tooth and nail right up to the court of human rights to ensure pensiones were not increased ,anyone who thinks Labour would upgrade pensions is living in cloud cukoo land . no party would 'waste" money on us .

 

Indeed. Various politicians of various political persuasions have made valiant promises over the years while not in government to unfreeze our pensions - only to have an abrupt change of heart following their first meeting with DWP's Sir Humphrey after being appointed to a ministerial position in that department!

[billzant]

4 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

It was Blair  who faught tooth and nail right up to the court of human rights to ensure pensiones were not increased ,anyone who thinks Labour would upgrade pensions is living in cloud cukoo land . no party would 'waste" money on us .

As it is in the Labour manifesto it is worth promoting out of self-interest, whatever your party allegiance. Is it in the manifestos of the other parties? 

 

In the past there has been no difference between the two parties in government concerning this issue. I cannot imagine Blair "fighting tooth and nail", he just did what the establishment wanted to keep in power.

 

Whilst Blair and Corbyn are leaders of the same party at different times in history, they have vastly different policies. I don't think Corbyn would stand up for expats per se, but I think he would stand up for all people getting the pension they paid for wherever they are; fighting for pensions for all is a class issue he would support.

And Corbyn has been a member of the APPG http://frozenbritishpensions.org/.

In recent times I suspect government has refused to unfreeze frozen pensions because of austerity, the Corbyn group in the Labour party are definitely anti-austerity.

[billzant]

3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

it became Labour Policy 2017 . The first time any official opposition party has supported unfreezing pensions.

 

How was it policy? In a manifesto?

[cleopatra2]

54 minutes ago, billzant said:

How was it policy? In a manifesto?

See this link and Corbyn Next Labour goverernment promise

 

http://frozenbritishpensions.org/jeremy-corbyn-gives-labours-backing-pension-unfreezing/

 

 

[billzant]

Cleopatra, thanks for this.

 

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

See this link and Corbyn Next Labour goverernment promise

 

http://frozenbritishpensions.org/jeremy-corbyn-gives-labours-backing-pension-unfreezing/

 

 

but , but , but he's a commie , terrorist sympathizer - Id' rather starve than accept his blood money - besides which he will Venezuela the economy so there will be no money for anyone. Finally he won't get in, so as you where. 

[ivor bigun]

14 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

but , but , but he's a commie , terrorist sympathizer - Id' rather starve than accept his blood money - besides which he will Venezuela the economy so there will be no money for anyone. Finally he won't get in, so as you where. 

The other thing as well is that if that bunch of commies got in ,the pound would sink so low ,it would not make much difference if it was frozen or not .

[OJAS]

18 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

See this link and Corbyn Next Labour goverernment promise

 

http://frozenbritishpensions.org/jeremy-corbyn-gives-labours-backing-pension-unfreezing/

 

 

But would he still feel the same after having had his arm firmly twisted by the Cabinet Secretary if he ever made it inside 10 Downing Street?

[sandyf]

On 11/24/2019 at 2:05 AM, beautifulthailand99 said:

A Government spokesperson said: 'It would cost the taxpayer more than £3billion over five years to change course on an issue which has been clear and settled government policy for seven decades, so we naturally have no plans to do so.'

 

Wasn't capital punishment a clear and settled government policy for centuries, how much has that decision cost the taxpayer.

Money is always available when the government wants to spend it, something brexit has proved beyond any shadow of doubt.

[beautifulthailand99]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

Wasn't capital punishment a clear and settled government policy for centuries, how much has that decision cost the taxpayer.

Money is always available when the government wants to spend it, something brexit has proved beyond any shadow of doubt.

The thing is there are so precious few votes in frozen expat pensions why would any government other than magic Grandpa Jeremy consider it apart from weasel words?

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The thing is there are so precious few votes in frozen expat pensions why would any government other than magic Grandpa Jeremy consider it apart from weasel words?

Unfortunately that is the reality, the country is governed by political expediency.

[theoldgit]

On 11/26/2019 at 10:32 AM, sandyf said:

Unfortunately that is the reality, the country is governed by political expediency.

Indeed, that's sadly the case, we're actually competing with the WAPSI Women, Women against State Pension Inequailty, who argueably have a stronger case and more public support.

Correcting that mistake will cost more than ours I believe, maybe that's why BJ is shying away from giving a commitment to do so.

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Indeed, that's sadly the case, we're actually competing with the WAPSI Women, Women against State Pension Inequailty, who argueably have a stronger case and more public support.

Correcting that mistake will cost more than ours I believe, maybe that's why BJ is shying away from giving a commitment to do so.

It is a sad state of affairs when competition can be perceived in respect of equality, something is either equal or its not, and there can be nothing more unequal than receiving less return for the same contribution.

This is an extract from the HOC briefing paper on the subject.

 

"When the rate of pension was increased in 1946, the increase was not paid to pensioners abroad. The reasons for this decision appear to have been related mainly to the then forthcoming new scheme of National Insurance. It was considered that the substantial increase in pension, from 10 to 26 shillings, was a first instalment of the new scheme and that pensioners abroad had made only a small contribution to their pensions and could not reasonably expect a share in the new scheme."

 

I made contributions for 49 years and one incomplete year, about 3 months short of the maximum that can be paid, hardly a small contribution.

The women have more support because they are there with the media and politicians with a grudge against the Tories behind them. If 500 thousand frozen pensioners all returned to the UK and claimed the full pension the media would be all over it, but it's never going to happen and the government knows it.

Bojo is only sticking to the status quo that has been there for years. Another extract from the same document. Parliament and the HoL have voted to take our money to meet future domestic liability. Reversing that decision would be an admission of failure in the first place and that goes against human nature.

 

"PRESENT POLICY
10. Continuing constraints on public expenditure have meant that, since 1981, the government has given no new commitments to uprate pensions abroad…
11. Agreeing to additional expenditure on pensions paid overseas would be incompatible with the government’s policy of containing the long term cost of the social security system to ensure that it remains affordable.
12. In June and July 1995, during the passage of the Pensions Bill, amendments were tabled in both Houses calling for upratings to be paid. All were defeated by large majorities. "

 

As I have said in previous posts, a "new" commitment to uprate pensions in Europe would be in breach of the stated policy.

 

[Expattaff1308]

On 11/24/2019 at 11:52 AM, cleopatra2 said:

I fail to see how  dismissing a manifesto pledge to up rate pensions overseas simply because it appears in the ' wrong party ' does the campaign any good.

Without dragging this into a political debate , it became Labour Policy 2017 . The first time any official opposition party has supported unfreezing pensions.

 

Remember Steve Webb (Lib Dem MP) 4 times he stood up in Parliament and condemned the Frozen Pension, calling it unjust and immoral saying it was time to put this right....  Move on to the Tory/Lib Dem coalition... New Pension Minister Steve Webb...Nothing has been done about this for decades and I see no reason why anything should change now!!!!!!

Dont believe pledges in their manifesto it's simply there to attract votes and then when elected will find an excuse not to implement.  

[cleopatra2]

33 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Remember Steve Webb (Lib Dem MP) 4 times he stood up in Parliament and condemned the Frozen Pension, calling it unjust and immoral saying it was time to put this right....  Move on to the Tory/Lib Dem coalition... New Pension Minister Steve Webb...Nothing has been done about this for decades and I see no reason why anything should change now!!!!!!

Dont believe pledges in their manifesto it's simply there to attract votes and then when elected will find an excuse not to implement.  

I will raise 2 points

Was the unfreezing of pensions in either of the coalition partners manifesto

Secondly as minister he would be bound by collective responsibility.

Whilst he may have personnaly disagreed with the coalition stance on this point ( i do not know if he did or not ). He is bound to accept the government position or resign if he felt it was of significant issue.

Edited November 29, 2019 by cleopatra2

[Tanlic]

Fist time in as long as I can remember my pension never turned up via the Kasikorn bank today....Comes like clockwork around 9am every 4 weeks my proof of life is up today........anyone else? or does anyone know the reason for delay......guess it will be Monday now ?

[denby45]

27 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

Fist time in as long as I can remember my pension never turned up via the Kasikorn bank today....Comes like clockwork around 9am every 4 weeks my proof of life is up today........anyone else? or does anyone know the reason for delay......guess it will be Monday now ?

Check your pulse.

 

Den

[denby45]

14 minutes ago, denby45 said:

Check your pulse.

 

Den

Seems I chose the wrong person to have a joke with. My apologies Tanlic.

 

Den

[vogie]

48 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

Fist time in as long as I can remember my pension never turned up via the Kasikorn bank today....Comes like clockwork around 9am every 4 weeks my proof of life is up today........anyone else? or does anyone know the reason for delay......guess it will be Monday now ?

Yes my pension has failed to turn up at my Bangkok Bank today, checked my pulse, still didn't turn up.

[nong38]

There are no votes in unfreezing the pensions of ex pats, we need to accept that. There may come a time when that changes, like these WASPI women kicking up a fuss or expats in the EU being brought into line but that is not now is it?

I await a celebrity figure to come forward and champion the case and put it forward to the HMG to change the morality and fairness of the issue, for the foreseeable future the incoming HMG seem to have enough on the plate with dealing with the Brexit and their announced manifesto plans, so waiting for Parliamentary time to change our position is looking over the horizon unless the knight in white comes over the horizon to change the status quo.

The best hope we have is that the new Chancellor will give us some more allowances against tax, nothing mentioned only that taxes wont go up under the Tories, we can but hope.

[Tanlic]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes my pension has failed to turn up at my Bangkok Bank today, checked my pulse, still didn't turn up.

Thanks Vogie.....That denby's easily wound up LOL......was pulling your leg Den

[billzant]

 

1 hour ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Dont believe pledges in their manifesto it's simply there to attract votes and then when elected will find an excuse not to implement. 

Whilst I accept Cleopatra's point in reply to this, it is important to recognise the following:-

 if a pledge is not in a manifesto then that policy isn't going to happen.

 

If there is a pledge in a manifesto there are no guarantees, but if it is not in the manifesto there is almost a 100% guarantee - it won't happen.

If your approach is that all politicians are liars and you are still going to vote, then why not vote for those who offer you more?

[billzant]

12 minutes ago, nong38 said:

There are no votes in unfreezing the pensions of ex pats, we need to accept that. There may come a time when that changes, like these WASPI women kicking up a fuss or expats in the EU being brought into line but that is not now is it?

I await a celebrity figure to come forward and champion the case and put it forward to the HMG to change the morality and fairness of the issue, for the foreseeable future the incoming HMG seem to have enough on the plate with dealing with the Brexit and their announced manifesto plans, so waiting for Parliamentary time to change our position is looking over the horizon unless the knight in white comes over the horizon to change the status quo.

The best hope we have is that the new Chancellor will give us some more allowances against tax, nothing mentioned only that taxes wont go up under the Tories, we can but hope.

No votes - agreed.

Celebrity figure - APPG Frozen Pensions inc Corbyn (http://frozenbritishpensions.org/) and Labour's manifesto

"the incoming HMG seem to have enough on the plate with dealing with the Brexit and their announced manifesto plans," agreed not in the Tory manifesto.

Just no likely white knights on the horizon of certain parties? Amber Rudd, maybe, as she gave money to EU expats?

[Expattaff1308]

2 hours ago, Tanlic said:

Fist time in as long as I can remember my pension never turned up via the Kasikorn bank today....Comes like clockwork around 9am every 4 weeks my proof of life is up today........anyone else? or does anyone know the reason for delay......guess it will be Monday now ?

My Last Payment earlier in the month didn't turn up on querying was told it could take 9 business days possibly 11 days giving a weekend (arrived on the 9th business day)