UK PM May's government loses contempt vote over Brexit legal advice

[rixalex]

Most of non-EU immigration is for family reunion, rather than for the purposes of work  

What exactly do you mean by family reunion and what exactly do you mean by "most"?

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[tebee]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

What mainstream reporting? Yes she voted to remain. But the explanation that she's secretly subverting the process is just nuts. The fact is that the EU was never going to get an agreement terms anything like Brexiters claimed they could get. May just ran up against that reality. If you have to resort to motivation ambition coupled with incompetence is a far more likely explanation. I doubt she's looking forward to any of the probable outcomes being her legacy.

 

 

26 minutes ago, rixalex said:

 

And you know this how?



 

'Cos it was obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense that the EU  was not going to change it's constitutional principles for an outgoing members convenience.

 

It's like resigning from the golf club because you expect them to change the rules and let former member play free whenever they want .  

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, rixalex said:

What exactly do you mean by family reunion and what exactly do you mean by "most"?

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family reunion = family reunion and most = most

 

You know, like the normal meaning of those words ....

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

'Cos it was obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense that the EU  was not going to change it's constitutional principles for an outgoing members convenience.

 

It's like resigning from the golf club because you expect them to change the rules and let former member play free whenever they want .  

But at your golf some members are allowed to play for free, and some even get paid for it. Would you really like to be a member of such a golf club.

[rixalex]

The deep hatred towards EU and Europeans was something I didn't expect and wasn't aware of. It's done now.
 
Previously I wished UK to stay with our EU. Now, not anymore. I no longer wish UK to be part of our union. 

Firstly, the hatred is towards the EU not Europeans. Britain is part of Europe and always will be. British people will always be European. The EU doesn't own Europe and nor do you. Sorry about that.

Secondly, as someone who expresses more hatred on this forum than most, who are you to judge others?

Do you realise how bitter and angry you have become?

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[rixalex]

 

 

 

DP

[Jip99]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

family reunion = family reunion and most = most

 

You know, like the normal meaning of those words ....

 

 

Hmmm.... odd that you fail to get your head around the meaning of a simple majority, yet try to lecture others on true meaning of words! ????????

[Jip99]

18 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 

It's like resigning from the golf club because you expect them to change the rules and let former member play free whenever they want .  

 

 

I don’t think £39bn is playing for free.

 

 

A level playing field would be sufficient.

[rixalex]

family reunion = family reunion and most = most
 
You know, like the normal meaning of those words ....

I'm aware of family visit visas where family members come to Britain for holiday. Not sure about the term family reunion. Just wondered whether it meant something different or something more specific.

Regarding "most", that's quite a vague term. The fact that you used it, I was just curious to know more of the numbers involved since you obviously DO or you wouldn't have said it.

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[tebee]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

But at your golf some members are allowed to play for free, and some even get paid for it. Would you really like to be a member of such a golf club.

I'm very proud to be a member of such an egalitarian club, that helps those from an underprivileged  background discover the wonderful world of golf !

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm very proud to be a member of such an egalitarian club, that helps those from an underprivileged  background discover the wonderful world of golf !

When you have no say how your subscriptions are being used it becomes a totalitarian golf club.

[tebee]

Just now, rixalex said:

I'm aware of family visit visas where family members come to Britain for holiday. Not sure about the term family reunion. Just wondered whether it meant something different or something more specific.

Regarding "most", that's quite a vague term. The fact that you used it, I was just curious to know more of the numbers involved since you obviously DO or you wouldn't have said it.

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Family reunion is bringing your wife/husband/brother/sister/parents/grandparents to live with you  permanently in the UK. It's what you will need to apply for if you and your thai wife move back there. 

[tebee]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

When you have no say how your subscriptions are being used it becomes a totalitarian golf club.

But we have a vote on the committee now, though some want us to become a up-country member and lose that. 

[rixalex]

'Cos it was obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense that the EU  was not going to change it's constitutional principles for an outgoing members convenience.

You never know until you try and we never tried. I'm not saying we would have got everything. Negotiation is a give and take. But to get anything you have to go in hard and then soften up from there. A bit like bartering for something. Your first bid has to be low to end up with a decent price. Our first bid was high and it's gone up from there.

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[melvinmelvin]

35 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I have. Prior brexit I had very little knowledge about British politics and media. Well, I watched BBC every now and them, but the exposure how British people really talk and think was a huge surprise to me.

 

Also my British friends, with whom I have interacted, were mainly well educated professionals. I lived in an information bubble. 

 

As time passed, I have (in a way unfortunately) burst my pink bubble about UK and British people. The deep hatred towards EU and Europeans was something I didn't expect and wasn't aware of. It's done now.

 

Previously I wished UK to stay with our EU. Now, not anymore. I no longer wish UK to be part of our union. 

 

So, change of mind is possible. It's not always to the better, but possible nevertheless. 

 

you have some good points there oilinki,

I'll savour an iso olut on that,

 

however, the points will not sell easily here I am afraid

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

But we have a vote on the committee now, though some want us to become a up-country member and lose that. 

But the committee are not fulfilling their duties if they don't treat members equally if they allow some members onto the golf course without paying a centime, if these non paying paying members decided to leave the golf club do you think they would fork out a leaving fee.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

Out of curiosity, in how many countries you were resident and paid local taxes to that country?

You lived 1 year in each country?

 

I have personally been a resident (4 years+) to only 3 countries and paid local taxes to only 4 countries. That's also why I'm wonder your number of 38 countries, which is a huge number.

 

For shorter trips, there was naturally any need to become resident nor get a work permit nor pay local taxes. During my secondary work, which I did while traveling, I worked illegally.

 

You don't have to spend a year working in a country. I was paying tax in France after 4 months, Germany was after 3 months, Thailand after a couple of months, Pakistan I was paying a withholding tax after 2 months.

 

You really ought to travel more and live in other countries than your beloved EU.

 

FYI I don't really give a rats horlicks whether you believe me or not?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You don't have to spend a year working in a country. I was paying tax in France after 4 months, Germany was after 3 months, Thailand after a couple of months, Pakistan I was paying a withholding tax after 2 months.

 

You really ought to travel more and live in other countries than your beloved EU.

 

FYI I don't really give a rats horlicks whether you believe me or not?

So that's 5 countries where you paid taxes. 

 

I have traveled alright quite enough already in 6 continents and spend 1/3 of my life outside of my beloved EU. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, rixalex said:

 

Firstly, the hatred is towards the EU not Europeans. Britain is part of Europe and always will be. British people will always be European. The EU doesn't own Europe and nor do you. Sorry about that.

Secondly, as someone who expresses more hatred on this forum than most, who are you to judge others?

Do you realise how bitter and angry you have become?

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- Why did you vote to leave the EU?

- Immigration, immigration, immigration

 

Yeah, not hatred towards those pesky Europeans who at the same time steal our jobs and our benefits as they don't work. 

 

I'm afraid to disappoint you. I'm neither angry nor bitter. I'm just chatting here. 

I'm however quite disappointed for what I have learned. I give you that.

[tebee]

 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

 

Firstly, the hatred is towards the EU not Europeans. Britain is part of Europe and always will be. British people will always be European. The EU doesn't own Europe and nor do you. Sorry about that.

Secondly, as someone who expresses more hatred on this forum than most, who are you to judge others?

Do you realise how bitter and angry you have become?

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This is a textbook example of the phenomenon psychologists call "projection."

[rixalex]

 
- Why did you vote to leave the EU?
- Immigration, immigration, immigration
 
Yeah, not hatred towards those pesky Europeans who at the same time steal our jobs and our benefits as they don't work. 
 
I'm afraid to disappoint you. I'm neither angry nor bitter. I'm just chatting here. 
I'm however quite disappointed for what I have learned. I give you that.

No, not immigration, immigration, immigration. Uncontrolled immigration, uncontrolled immigration, uncontrolled immigration. What is it about that distinction that causes you to constantly ignore it?

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[sandyf]

5 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Actually it's not an issue at all. Brits will continue to be able to travel, work and retire in EU countries, even with the "hardest" of Brexits.

 

The only thing you have right is that leavers would not recognise the issue, as far as they are concerned 'EU directive ' is just another swear word.

Despite what you would like to believe, many do see losing EU citizenship and the associated rights as an issue.

 

Generally, however, the legal regime for non-EU citizens is (much) less favourable compared to the generous provisions applicable to Union citizens.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2017/599361/EPRS_BRI(2017)599361_EN.pdf

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The only thing you have right is that leavers would not recognise the issue, as far as they are concerned 'EU directive ' is just another swear word.

Despite what you would like to believe, many do see losing EU citizenship and the associated rights as an issue.

 

Generally, however, the legal regime for non-EU citizens is (much) less favourable compared to the generous provisions applicable to Union citizens.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2017/599361/EPRS_BRI(2017)599361_EN.pdf

 

 

So, Sandy, are you saying that Brits will NO LONGER continue to be able to travel, work and retire in EU countries

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The only thing you have right is that leavers would not recognise the issue, as far as they are concerned 'EU directive ' is just another swear word.

Despite what you would like to believe, many do see losing EU citizenship and the associated rights as an issue.

 

Generally, however, the legal regime for non-EU citizens is (much) less favourable compared to the generous provisions applicable to Union citizens.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2017/599361/EPRS_BRI(2017)599361_EN.pdf

 

 

So, Sandy, are you saying that Brits will NO LONGER continue to be able to travel, work and retire in EU countries

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

So, Sandy, are you saying that Brits will NO LONGER continue to be able to travel, work and retire in EU countries

We will be unable to do it paperwork free and certain jobs will be closed off to us. Freelancers will be particularly badly hit. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, rixalex said:

No, not immigration, immigration, immigration. Uncontrolled immigration, uncontrolled immigration, uncontrolled immigration. What is it about that distinction that causes you to constantly ignore it?

Uncontrolled immigration aka Europeans who take the jobs and don't work at all at the sametime. 

 

If you listen interviews of the EU people who currently reside in UK, it's quite clear that they have heard the underlying message loud and clear. Many of them have already left, so congratulations, you got what you wanted and you haven't even brexited yet. 

 

Nobody can blame them. Who would want to live in such hostile environment what UK has become. 

[rixalex]

Family reunion is bringing your wife/husband/brother/sister/parents/grandparents to live with you  permanently in the UK. It's what you will need to apply for if you and your thai wife move back there. 

Ok, I thought they were more commonly known as settlement visas. Anyway, I'm a little surprised that they account for the majority of non EU immigration. Not disputing it. Just a bit surprised. So what is this figure then in rough percentage terms?

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[bristolboy]

46 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Uncontrolled immigration aka Europeans who take the jobs and don't work at all at the sametime. 

 

If you listen interviews of the EU people who currently reside in UK, it's quite clear that they have heard the underlying message loud and clear. Many of them have already left, so congratulations, you got what you wanted and you haven't even brexited yet. 

 

Nobody can blame them. Who would want to live in such hostile environment what UK has become. 

Almost a fifth of EU doctors have made plans to leave UK following Brexit vote

 

A BMA survey of EEA (European Economic Area) doctors working in the UK has found that almost half are considering leaving following the EU referendum result, with almost one in five having already made solid plans to relocate elsewhere.

There are approximately 12,000 EEA doctors working in the NHS in England – 7.7 per cent of the UK medical workforce – with many more working in public health and academic medicine¹. Recruiting from Europe has been vital in dealing with staff shortages in UK health services, ensuring the NHS can provide high-quality, reliable and safe patient care.

https://www.bma.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2017/november/almost-a-fifth-of-eu-doctors-have-made-plans-to-leave-uk-following-brexit-vote

[rixalex]

This is a textbook example of the phenomenon psychologists call "projection."

I'd skip straight to the section on denial as that seems to be what you are suffering from.

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