Time after time particularly in Pattaya I hear from other expats that kindness can be seen as a weakness.

lets face it sometimes in Thailand we need to be assertive and know how to say NO.

 

those who cant i guess have to shack up with a thai partner to do it for them.

 

i had a few incidents which made me think should i stop being kind and polite in Pattaya and walk around with a scrowl on my face so people think they cant use me.

 

Some peole find it hard when doung business or negotiating to do both , be seen as kind and be seen as assertive,

 

Thailand can be very difficult for those 

Thailand no different to any where else. No means no

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You can be very kind and polite to people all of the time!!

You also have to set rules/standards from the word go and live by them.

Many people will try to test you to see if you can be used,it is like playing poker.don]t show them what you are holding.

Glad you brought that up because was taking advantage off a couple times from the people managing my condo, I use to smile to them all the times and when needed basic things ( 1 copy or handle a package) they always ask for money, kept smiling at me with a smirk look in their faces, like saying ..""" you stupid foreigner keep giving...."""" until one day decided to tell them NO... whowwhoww what a surprise in their faces, almost looking like they were electrocuted.... a couple days later asked for a copy of a document, they did it with the same "fake" smile but didn't ask for money, now being not so kind I get better service and ""MAYBE just MAYBE a little more respect LOL

You can be kind,without been stupid,or weak,2 different things,

 I find you get further been kind and polite,with a smile,

than been a grumpy old bastard,who thinks only of oneself.

 

regards worgeordie

There are foreigners who accept anything from a Thai, they even give a big tip for a normal service which they already paid for.

 

Those ruin it for the rest, that's why the bellboys in a hotel always expect a tip and even dare to ask for it.

 

You are farang, so behave like one....that's what i do at least. 

You can be a kind person, but at the same time not allow yourself to be a doormat for others. I have some friends who do not know where to draw the line, and they are constantly being taken advantage by friends and strangers, due to their incredibly open hearts. There has to be a balance. I believe you can maintain an open heart, but your must have the ability to summon up your inner butthead, for the right person or the right occasion. 

 

Now, when it comes to relationships, I see guys who are really taken advantage of, as a result of being too kind. Sometimes, kindness is perceived as weakness. Thai women do not admire or like weakness in their men. Most seem to prefer a real man, who is willing to take charge, make decisions, be bold and courageous, and act like a man, not a wimp, or an emasculated fool. If you are not willing to be the captain of the ship, she will take over, as every ship needs a captain. Are you up for the task?

 

You can be kind to a woman, but you have to set the limits, be able to say no, and be able to push back. Especially in the early stages, where certain boundaries are being established. This seems to be the number one mistake I see alot of guys making. Pushing back also means setting the timetable. Many Thai women want things fast, and they want it now. We have to be able to push back against that, and counsel patience, and take our time. If it is good, it is only going to get better. If there are issues, or if she is insane, or if she has the emotional development of a 13 year old, or if she is stupid jealous or possessive, and selfish, those things will manifest themselves over time. Time is your ally, and it is rarely her ally. Use it wisely. We are not in the West, and we do not have to behave as such. Women here like a real man. A strong man. Thankfully. 

The system posted this twice.

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The system posted this twice.

As you didnt mention Trump , the system celebrated by re posting it 

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You can be kind to a woman, but you have to set the limits, be able to say no, and be able to push back. Especially in the early stages, where certain boundaries are being established. This seems to be the number one mistake I see alot of guys making. Pushing back also means setting the timetable. Many Thai women want things fast, and they want it now.

Yes, its very important to do that from the beginning , if the relationship is set in you giving and her taking , changing that set up will lead to resentment .

Well, some people see kind people as weak.  They think cruel, ruthless people who are selfish, or treat people badly are 'strong' and something to aspire to.  That, in my view is very sad and selfish view, and if you are like that you are not going to have a nice experience of life and humanity.  You are going to be pretty lonely really, even if you have tonnes of money to live a hi so lifestyle, you probably will be surrounded by very shallow 'friends' and hangers on.  

 

Like another poster said, being kind is not the same as being stupid.

 

Also being kind does not have to do with giving away money, or spending money on people who want things off you.  That would be more in the stupidity area. So is constantly giving a partner or friends money or material things as a way to 'own' them or make them in you debt somehow.  

 

I am by nature mostly a kind person.  I am also very patient and level headed.  However, I have rarely given people money or things I can not afford to give.  Helping people in practical ways is a more kind thing to do.  It might require more effort that throwing cash at them, but its much more helpful and appreciated in the end in my experience.  If you are genuinely kind you will find many people will come to realise it, and they will be real true friends, who will also help you out in the future if you have a problem... with no agenda about making money or getting something out of it.  

 

Also sometimes, you have to be 'cruel to be kind'.  Sometimes giving people an easy fix for a problem they are having is actually more harmful to them in the long run.

 

So, in answer to OP question, being kind is not weak.  Being stupid and naïve will be seen as a weakness… and the vultures and parasites will come circling!  

 

 

56 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Glad you brought that up because was taking advantage off a couple times from the people managing my condo, I use to smile to them all the times and when needed basic things ( 1 copy or handle a package) they always ask for money, kept smiling at me with a smirk look in their faces, like saying ..""" you stupid foreigner keep giving...."""" until one day decided to tell them NO... whowwhoww what a surprise in their faces, almost looking like they were electrocuted.... a couple days later asked for a copy of a document, they did it with the same "fake" smile but didn't ask for money, now being not so kind I get better service and ""MAYBE just MAYBE a little more respect LOL

They dont care about the loose change they no longer get from you for photocopies as they are probably stealing thousands from you every month without you being at all aware of it.

 

Respect? They dont even know what the word means.

No. 

Its called taking an advantage of the situation that we find ourselves in and we all do it .

Say if KFC said that they would give free food to felangs , we would be there everyday taking advantage and not only would we just go there , we would bring all our felang friends along as well

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

You can be a kind person, but at the same time not allow yourself to be a doormat for others. I have some friends who do not know where to draw the line, and they are constantly being taken advantage by friends and strangers, due to their incredibly open hearts. There has to be a balance. I believe you can maintain an open heart, but your must have the ability to summon up your inner butthead, for the right person or the right occasion. 

Very well put, at 58 i'm still learning, and i guess the learning never ends.

Some people get so disappointed from people, that they get to love cats and dogs more than humans.

Thankfully, i still prefer the company of humans, but one needs to be very careful.

 

After trying different methods including your idea, the simplest one that worked for me is "my cup" followed by "cop coon cup" (I know its spelt incorrectly, but its how I pronounce it)

I throw in a smile and shake head as no thanks.  The vendors dont push it from there as they assume I know a bit of Thai. They appreciate I am respectful and dont look down at them, they smile and continue on their way.

Worst thing to do is acknowledge them in first place. Never speak to them or make eye contact, just a gentle shake of the head looking away and they are gone

 

Where people get unstuck is talking to them eg but I already have a watch.

Once you start communicating they have your attention.. And the speil begins

 

No frigging way I'm going to engage with them when they keep coming at me in a bar one after the other. They have no manners.. If I'm eating and they are tapping me on the shoulder I give a good elbow shove

 

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Ha ha one of the blessings of letting my wife handle the money, at any moment I can turn out my pockets and truthfully tell them I have no money, my wife has the money ????

 

Demonstrating you are thoughtful, helpful, generous, and accept life is not always about you, is not always linked to your wallet. ????

It's only seen as a weakness by those who are weak.

No.

 

It's seen as weakness + stupidity.

 

 

Unless there is some self-advantage to it down the line.

 

 

Self advantage is the only thing that matters. 

As we note from some comments, the perception of how a person reacts with others is judgement through the eyes of people with varied lifestyles, and, experiences

 

Somehow it would appear to some, holding the door open for a following person is weak, allowing a person to go before you to the cashier you as you have 30 items and they have one is weak, tipping for good service is weak, giving to those less fortunate is weak, assisting somebody lift a heavy object into a truck is weak, helping to push a broken down car off the road is weak, visiting relatives in hospital is weak, being polite is weak.......heaven forbid lending a relative a few baht to help them out in times of real need!!

 

Those whose perception is so negative and self centred are surely weak attempting to be strong!

Thailand is a collectivist society in relation to Western societies which are more individualistic.

 

Thus the Thai is confused by a Westerner's indifference to his own vulnerability by not having a network of friends, family, a protector and connections in a foreign land in which the weak are often exploited.

 

Whilst the Westerner feels cheated by the fact he is sometimes exploited when he feels he is being kind and good and generous, unaware for the most part that this is a land where the weak are routinely exploited, rules don't apply, institutions to protect the public with the same name as in the West don't protect the public and most of all, you need friends with some standing in Thailand to help you out in conflicts.

Thanks guys. Now I know why my Ex-wife used to beat me up twice a day.

No reason why you can't be assertive in a kind and polite manner 

The weakness is in worrying how other people will perceive your kindness.

 

To that end, I differentiate between genuine kindness -for fun and for free- and using kindness as a bartering chip or other leverage -expecting something in return.

 

Some guys' lives revolve around sweating the small stuff and making a 20 baht tip (or not) an issue of supreme importance.

13 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Very well put, at 58 i'm still learning, and i guess the learning never ends.

Some people get so disappointed from people, that they get to love cats and dogs more than humans.

Thankfully, i still prefer the company of humans, but one needs to be very careful.

 

The more I learn about humans, the more I love my dog.

11 hours ago, 473geo said:

Somehow it would appear to some, holding the door open for a following person is weak, allowing a person to go before you to the cashier you as you have 30 items and they have one is weak, tipping for good service is weak, giving to those less fortunate is weak, assisting somebody lift a heavy object into a truck is weak, helping to push a broken down car off the road is weak, visiting relatives in hospital is weak, being polite is weak.......heaven forbid lending a relative a few baht to help them out in times of real need!!

If the above are signs of weakness, I AM WEAK and darn proud of it. These are all my traits and will always be.

And if these "services" give me pleasure and an inner smile, that makes me feel strong. It's a win/win.

2 hours ago, impulse said:

The weakness is in worrying how other people will perceive your kindness.

 

To that end, I differentiate between genuine kindness -for fun and for free- and using kindness as a bartering chip or other leverage -expecting something in return.

 

"character is how you treat someone who can do nothing for you"

 

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Had a beautiful and educated Thai girl (with a master degree in UK) with which I had awesome conversation until she heard I showed mercy and sympathy towards a beggar on the streets of Bangkok (told her I handed the beggar 1000 baht because it made me feel well with myself and because I can and like to help people in need). After that she was very careful and reserved towards me and she told me " she doesn't want to be/ become that lady I offered money to" in another conversation we had. I could feel that she was kind of uncomfortable that a farang showed mercy to a Thai and she remembered that aspect (Well at  least that was my sentiment )

 

Yeah , most high class Thais really hate the poor and uneducated even if perhaps its not ones fault if they were born poor and have no perspective . It has maybe some roots in their religion where If you are rich you did good on your previous life and if you are poor it's the opposite , IDK. 

 

Anyway it can be applicable to people in the West too