Red Wine bargain in Phuket

[stuarty]

13 hours ago, xylophone said:

No I don't believe they do, because it clearly states it is "Tesco's finest" so in effect what they're basically saying is that it's a good wine from a mass marketing, mid to low range supermarket!

 

 

Did you actually read anything I said?

Edited May 16, 2021 by stuarty

[xylophone]

31 minutes ago, stuarty said:

Did you actually read anything I said?

Yes, but if you think that having the silver sticker promoting "Tesco's Finest" fools anybody, then you are very wrong. I and others who post on here know full well what to expect, and it's NOT the finest wine at all, just the "finest" in a price bracket from a supermarket chain.

 

Your assertion that it, "Works especially well with gullible expats in locales such as Asia. QED on this forum", therefore lacks merit, as well as being insulting. And especially for you........"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you".

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, schlog said:

 

I also really like winepro and need to go again. Would be great xylo if you could name your top 3 red wines from winepro after your testing.

Will do, my friend, although so far I've been disappointed with the first one I've tried which is a Chilean Reserva Cabernet Sauvignon, 2018 by Correa Lisoni.

 

Was quite looking forward to that because as a rule the "reserva" tag is used on the better wines, but this one was very disappointing, with little to no nose, and little in the way of tannins and fruit. In fact I would say it was "dead" before it was even bottled.

 

In fact I was so disappointed with it, the little I have left in the bottle I will put in the freezer to use in the cooking, and will try and Aussie wine tonight although that has a bit of a "chequered background" from what I can tell. I say this because when I was doing some research on it, notes from the vineyard itself said that it was 100% Cabernet Sauvignon, but they added some fruit to it???

 

I have sent them an email asking what they meant by that, but I do suspect that fruit has been added, but not in such an amount that it needs to be detailed on the label (as I recall from a long way back, wines in Australia can have up to 10 or 20% of another variety in them, without it being disclosed on the label), so it will be interesting to try that one tonight.

 

If that also turns out to be a dud, then I will be very disappointed indeed. However I will keep you informed of my findings.

[schlog]

On 5/15/2021 at 3:49 PM, xylophone said:

Jeez, there was none left when I looked the other day!! Was there much of it left??

Xylo at Lotus Thalang are still 10 bottles rioja in stock. Ask the alc girls because they are little bit hidden. Got before some bottles!

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, schlog said:

Xylo at Lotus Thalang are still 10 bottles rioja in stock. Ask the alc girls because they are little bit hidden. Got before some bottles!

Well Schlog, as soon I saw your email I quickly shot up to Tesco Lotus Thalang and arrived outside of their door at about 1:57 PM, so rushed into the wine area, which I couldn't find initially, managed to see the Rioja and loaded six bottles into my bag and actually ran down to the counter and plonked the wine in front of the cashier...........and she said " cannot do" and pointed to the fact it was 2 PM according to her, according to me there was about a minute to spare, and no amount of talking or persuading or talking to the supervisor helped me in any way, shape or form.

 

Of course I was angry having driven at breakneck speed from Patong, but there was nothing I could do apart from waiting till 5 PM which I wasn't prepared to do.

 

So I thought long and hard about it and suddenly remembered that I had tried it before and I wasn't overly enamoured with it, so consoled myself with the fact that I could spend the money I would have spent on a nine year old bottle of wine, on another one from Wine Pro instead, or even buy my favourite Hopes End, so all was not lost.

 

In fact, thinking even further, I was probably keen to buy it because of the price, rather than the quality of it, so I put today's trip down to a favour for my little Suzuki Swift, and in enabling me to get out of my apartment to do something different for a change.

[xylophone]

@schlog

I have some news for you my wine loving friend, inasmuch as I have tried four of the wines I bought the other day from Wine Pro, so here is my verdict on them: –

 

1. Chilean Reserva Cabernet Sauvignon, 2018 by Correa Lisoni. 524 baht. This wine did absolutely nothing for me, because it was a poorly made wine IMO, with no nose to speak of, weak to non-existent tannins and no fruit to be found anywhere. Would never buy again. A huge disappointment as a "Reserva".

 

2. An Australian Cabernet Sauvignon, 2018 by Jock McPherson 524 baht. Initially I was a little confused about this wine as on their website they mentioned adding more "fruit" to the wine during the process, so I sent them an email and they replied very swiftly, to their credit.

 

They apologised for the confusion saying that the fruit they added was actually parcels of grapes/juice from their other vineyards, and although they didn't say it, it was probably done in order to round off the wine.

 

It was a nice Aussie wine with slight nose of plums and black fruit, very soft, but lovely tannins and a hint of a taste of blackcurrants in the mid-palate to finish. Would definitely buy again as although not a blockbuster of a wine it is classy enough to want to try another bottle at least.

 

3. Another Australian called, Outstation, Shiraz Cabernet, 2019, 449 baht. I initially didn't find much in this wine at all, until I chilled it slightly and let it breathe a little longer, and the taste of the fruit did come through, not strongly so, but enough to enjoy the wine. A typical Aussie barbecue wine with no pretence to anything other than being very drinkable/swiggable.

 

This is the sort of wine and the price I would compare to my staple Aussie swiggers, Barwang, Hopes End and JJ McPherson range, although I think these have the slight edge on the wine above.

 

4. A French wine this time, a Cotes du Rhone by Victor Berard, 556 baht. I am fond of Cotes du Rhone wines and their certain rusticity, which again means that they have no pretence to be anything other than a blend of three grapes prevalent in the area. Certainly the Syrah came through in it and it was enjoyable, and cheaper than others I have seen in the shops here, so I'll probably buy more, just because I like the wine style, and always have done.

 

Due to try a few more over the coming three or four days, so I will update this on my findings.
 

Cheers.

[schlog]

Thanks xylo for your great review.

Will go next monday to winepro and buy your wine 2/3/4.

Hoping to find also a good primitivo.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, schlog said:

Thanks xylo for your great review.

Will go next monday to winepro and buy your wine 2/3/4.

Hoping to find also a good primitivo.

If you do find a good Primitivo, Schlog, reasonably priced, then please let me know as always on the lookout for a "good one".

[stuarty]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

If you do find a good Primitivo, Schlog, reasonably priced, then please let me know as always on the lookout for a "good one".

So I thought long and hard about it and suddenly remembered that I had tried it before and I wasn't overly enamoured with it, so consoled myself with the fact that I could spend the money I would have spent on a nine year old bottle of wine

 

A 9 year old Rioja at that price in Thailand, that's already cooking wine. How can you suddenly remember that a wine you had before is rubbish. Also I think you mean JJ McWilliams, maybe. They apologised for adding other fruit to their wine?  Mate they were sending it to Asia.  It's wine with other fruit juice, it's not to round it off.  There's no such thing.

 

You are an amiable but rank amateur.

[stuarty]

36 minutes ago, stuarty said:

So I thought long and hard about it and suddenly remembered that I had tried it before and I wasn't overly enamoured with it, so consoled myself with the fact that I could spend the money I would have spent on a nine year old bottle of wine

 

A 9 year old Rioja at that price in Thailand, that's already cooking wine. How can you suddenly remember that a wine you had before is rubbish. Also I think you mean JJ McWilliams, maybe. They apologised for adding other fruit to their wine?  Mate they were sending it to Asia.  It's wine with other fruit juice, it's not to round it off.  There's no such thing.

 

You are an amiable but rank amateur.

 

I was timed out of edit but here's my full tirade.  Pay a bit more and get a lit more.  Even in Thailand

 

So I thought long and hard about it and suddenly remembered that I had tried it before and I wasn't overly enamoured with it, so consoled myself with the fact that I could spend the money I would have spent on a nine year old bottle of wine

 

A 9 year old Rioja at that price in Thailand, that's already cooking wine. How can you suddenly remember that a wine you had before is rubbish. Also I think you mean JJ McWilliams, maybe. They apologised for adding other fruit to their wine?  Mate they were sending it to Asia.  It's wine with other fruit juice, it's not to "round it off".  You just made that up - There's no such thing.

 

Finally, as someone who worked in Tesco's marketing department, I'm almost sorry to say your naive view on the indication of a silver sticker declaring "Tesco's finest" as indicating an aspect of quality is just plain wrong.  It is a tool to push what they need to shift in larger volume  (at least in the wine section, if not in the food so much) and no indication of quality at all. But I get that you have very limited choice in Phuket  I would stick to Winepro and also take their advice ( I have no connection there but they know their stuff)

 

You are an amiable but rank amateur.

[JetsetBkk]

1 hour ago, stuarty said:

Also I think you mean JJ McWilliams, maybe. They apologised for adding other fruit to their wine?  Mate they were sending it to Asia. 

 

But, but, I like JJ McWilliams. I really like it. Oh, philistine, me.

[stuarty]

4 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

 

But, but, I like JJ McWilliams. I really like it. Oh, philistine, me.

 

[stuarty]

6 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

 

But, but, I like JJ McWilliams. I really like it. Oh, philistine, me.

No that wine is OK and unpretentious if that's your price range and your bag, except it's worth paying a little more if you can afford it, for a significantly better wine . It's the silver sticker Tesco stuff I am railing against (and 9 year old Rioja that everyone seems to be rushing out to buy?!).

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, stuarty said:

 

I was timed out of edit but here's my full tirade.  Pay a bit more and get a lit more.  Even in Thailand

 

So I thought long and hard about it and suddenly remembered that I had tried it before and I wasn't overly enamoured with it, so consoled myself with the fact that I could spend the money I would have spent on a nine year old bottle of wine

 

A 9 year old Rioja at that price in Thailand, that's already cooking wine. How can you suddenly remember that a wine you had before is rubbish. Also I think you mean JJ McWilliams, maybe. They apologised for adding other fruit to their wine?  Mate they were sending it to Asia.  It's wine with other fruit juice, it's not to "round it off".  You just made that up - There's no such thing.

 

Finally, as someone who worked in Tesco's marketing department, I'm almost sorry to say your naive view on the indication of a silver sticker declaring "Tesco's finest" as indicating an aspect of quality is just plain wrong.  It is a tool to push what they need to shift in larger volume  (at least in the wine section, if not in the food so much) and no indication of quality at all. But I get that you have very limited choice in Phuket  I would stick to Winepro and also take their advice ( I have no connection there but they know their stuff)

 

You are an amiable but rank amateur.

Oh dear, so much wrong with your posts that I don't know where to start.

 

But let's start with the fact that I've been buying, drinking and collecting wines for 50 years and have had several wine cellars over the years, as well as touring France with a French wine merchant and being invited to private tastings at Château Lynch Bages, Château La Bastide and at a winery in Corton as well as having private tastings in Chateauneuf du Papes  and with Michel Ogier  in the Northern Rhône, and I could go on but it would be wasted on someone like you by the sound of it.

 

Your description of the Rioja wine is so far out of touch, as to be unbelievable, as Rioja Gran Reserva is not released until after about six years of production, and is a long lasting wine, and I remember having the 1964 from Frederico Paternina, and drinking the last of it around in 1987, when I was offered a huge price for my remaining two bottles by the owner of Spanish restaurant. So that wine was 23 years old and still drinking well. So much for your comment about "cooking wine". But ignorance is bliss in your case.

 

You also seem to have gotten a couple of things mixed up, because the wine (Jock MacPherson Cabernet Sauvignon)in which I stated that the winery apologised for adding "fruit" to their wine, on their website, was the fact that they added grapes and the juice from a couple of their other vineyards to the finished product to "round it off", which is not uncommon practice in many wineries. And no I didn't make it up because I have still got the email from them, not that I would waste time sending it to a philistine like you.

 

I know full well about the practice of adding fruit juice to wines, and have written extensively about it on threads here, especially the Montclair thread which was running for quite a long time. You might want to read it to improve your knowledge.

 

Yes you have launched on a bit of a tirade, but with so many mistakes as I think that you were either drunk at the time of writing it, or simply a rank amateur, and that all seems to stem from my comment about Tesco's Finest, in which I suggested that it wasn't in fact the finest wine around, but was the finest in a lower range of wines offered by mid range supermarket, which you can't seem to understand. And of course no one is fooled by it.

 

Never mind, I'm quite at home with my wine knowledge and my extensive wine experience, as well as attending wine tastings in New Zealand and France, and even being paid a compliment by a New Zealand Master of Wine who stated that, "you certainly know your wines".

 

I was also asked to write the monthly wine magazine for a New Zealand importer and distributor of French wines when I decided to retire.

 

I can only assume that jealousy is playing a part in your tirades, but then your lack of knowledge on what you have written certainly shows that you don't even qualify as a "rank amateur", more a bitter and twisted rube.

 

Life is too short to get mixed up with people like you who don't know their wine, and who take pleasure in denigrating others who do, so on you go to ignore.

 

PS. You poor thing, you got everyday Rioja mixed up with the Rioja Gran Reserva. You see in your case, a little knowledge is dangerous! LOL.
 

Edited May 20, 2021 by xylophone

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, JetsetBkk said:

 

But, but, I like JJ McWilliams. I really like it. Oh, philistine, me.

I don't know where that poster got his information from, but to my knowledge JJ McWilliams do not add fruit (as in other than grapes) to their wines, and for the price it is a well produced wine.

 

Carry on enjoying it and ignore the posts from this bitter and twisted poster.

[xylophone]

21 hours ago, schlog said:

Thanks xylo for your great review.

Will go next monday to winepro and buy your wine 2/3/4.

Hoping to find also a good primitivo.

I tried one more wine last night from Wine Pro, although I can't recommend it to you because I didn't think it was that special, and I bought it more as an experiment to see if the particular wine had improved over what it used to be.

 

The wine was a Carignan by Les Ormieres and wasn't expensive at 482 baht a bottle, and I was keen to try it after many years of not doing so.

 

You see the Carignan grape doesn't have a good reputation as it's a high yielding vine, which can be subject to many diseases and it was only propagated initially because of its high yield and ability to be able to add a little backbone to other wines in the south of France. In fact at one time it was one of the most highly planted grapes in France, until the French government ordered some of the vines to be pulled up because the low quality of the wine was not doing anything for the reputation of France.

 

There are some very old vines left and some winemakers choose to focus on those and make a wine, which I had tasted years ago and thought was "different". It is also added to other wines in the south of France, particularly in the Languedoc region, and it is sometimes added to the older varieties of Chateauneuf du Papes, but only in small quantities.

 

This one I found hard to pin down, but it was a fruity wine with soft tannins, but hard to wax lyrical about it.

 

I have got a Chianti and a Carmenere left to try, so will keep you informed.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

topic for wine touts, their random recommendations and their alcoholic retinue here , it seems.........

suggest research and select your wine then locate stock in phuket......topic operates that in reverse....

i dont drink wine as it is 99% mass produced <deleted>.....one exception being Argentine Malbecs......

otherwise good only for getting liver disease from the alcohol and added sugars........

[faraday]

3 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

topic for wine touts, their random recommendations and their alcoholic retinue here , it seems.........

suggest research and select your wine then locate stock in phuket......topic operates that in reverse....

i dont drink wine as it is 99% mass produced <deleted>.....one exception being Argentine Malbecs......

otherwise good only for getting liver disease from the alcohol and added sugars........

Are you old enough to drink alcohol?

????

[xylophone]

43 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

topic for wine touts, their random recommendations and their alcoholic retinue here , it seems.........

suggest research and select your wine then locate stock in phuket......topic operates that in reverse....

i dont drink wine as it is 99% mass produced <deleted>.....one exception being Argentine Malbecs......

otherwise good only for getting liver disease from the alcohol and added sugars........

A very strange post as just about all wine in the world is "mass produced"; that is thousands of litres are made at a time for distribution and sale around the world. And Argentinian Malbec's are no different.

 

There are strict regulations in wine producing countries as to what can be added as regards sugar, and if the wine producing countries do not adhere to these regulations, then the wine maker will be fined and have to abide by the rules.

 

I suggest you stick to your tea oops ( sorry, that is mass produced) or coffee (oops sorry that is mass produced) or whatever your little heart desires, but stay away from threads that are for grown-ups.
 

Edited May 21, 2021 by xylophone

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“strict regulations” , what bs, its not even real wine and you dont even comprehend the term “ mass production”, check your delusions and find out how your beloved “wine” is really produced ; in vast arrays of giant tanks, with low -grade, over-produced vines ( french originals destroyed by blight 150 years ago), colourants, additives, preservatives, very young or old grapes tossed in, water, gas, anything to meet production targets, little quality, all to give you gullible “wine experts” ( give me a break) what you want to see ( sense of taste / smell of real wine I suspect is not applicable)........

 

Argentine Malbecs are produced in very small batches by remote individual vineyards. privately owned,  to “ old school” high standards, from original french vines, with none of the above described process.....Its an example of proper wine, fool, which I said I do drink, high in minerals and anti-toxins. 

 

Lidl wines at 10 quid consistently beat 200 quid wines in blind testing, why ?

Because its nearly all total garbage & not real “wine” at all. 

 

you do realise your worthless puerile “taunts” are far from clever or funny; just embarassing yourself.....

from your unlettered literary efforts, I wonder if you even hold a junior high school Eng. Lang. cert........

 

I shall certainly now be happy to leave this worthless “topic” thread to the uneducated “ wine” lovers..

unless I am further encouraged of course.......

[faraday]

6 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

“strict regulations” , what bs, its not even real wine and you dont even comprehend the term “ mass production”, check your delusions and find out how your beloved “wine” is really produced ; in vast arrays of giant tanks, with low -grade, over-produced vines ( french originals destroyed by blight 150 years ago), colourants, additives, preservatives, very young or old grapes tossed in, water, gas, anything to meet production targets, little quality, all to give you gullible “wine experts” ( give me a break) what you want to see ( sense of taste / smell of real wine I suspect is not applicable)........

 

Argentine Malbecs are produced in very small batches by remote individual vineyards. privately owned,  to “ old school” high standards, from original french vines, with none of the above described process.....Its an example of proper wine, fool, which I said I do drink, high in minerals and anti-toxins. 

 

Lidl wines at 10 quid consistently beat 200 quid wines in blind testing, why ?

Because its nearly all total garbage & not real “wine” at all. 

 

you do realise your worthless puerile “taunts” are far from clever or funny; just embarassing yourself.....

from your unlettered literary efforts, I wonder if you even hold a junior high school Eng. Lang. cert........

 

I shall certainly now be happy to leave this worthless “topic” thread to the uneducated “ wine” lovers..

unless I am further encouraged of course.......

Clueless, uneducated, nonsense.

 

I would imagine you still drink Leibfraumilch...????

 

 

[schlog]

Woooow some guys must have a boring life to feel the need to pxxx here around.

 

Lets focus on ... red wine bargains on HKT!

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, faraday said:

Clueless, uneducated, nonsense.

 

I would imagine you still drink Leibfraumilch...????

 

 

You are spot on Faraday, couldn't have summed it up better. 

[madmitch]

Personally, I don't give a toss how a wine is produced, how much it costs, what the label looks like or whether it has a little sticker claiming it's won awards or is specially selected.

 

All I care about is whether I like it or not!

 

I was not long ago given an expensive bottle of chateauneuf du pape. It just wasn't to my taste. Give me a 450 baht Hope's End red blend over that one any day.

[xylophone]

33 minutes ago, madmitch said:

I was not long ago given an expensive bottle of chateauneuf du pape. It just wasn't to my taste. Give me a 450 baht Hope's End red blend over that one any day.

Good point mm, and have had the same experience and Hopes End is also one of my favourites, and must buy some more!! 

 

This after trying a Wine Pro selection, but then using a few favourites as a benchmark, of which Hopes End (red blend) is one.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

pea-brained deluded infantile dismissals maintained all round then.......... 

added glycol (anti-freeze) anyone with your wine sugars ? enjoy........

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

I shall certainly now be happy to leave this worthless “topic” thread

Please do.

 

pea-brained . 

 

Well that description could easily be applied to you, because in your original rant you made so many incorrect statements as to be laughable.

 

Let's take the sugar bit for a start.......sugar is allowed to be added to the fermenting wine in certain countries, especially where the weather might adversely affect the ripening conditions of the grape. Whereas it is not allowed in others, but the point is that the sugar is used to increase the alcohol content of the wine and give it more body, so it's converted and you're not actually drinking sugar, otherwise you would have some very fine red French wines being sweet, and they're not.

 

Wineries of any note handpick the grapes, and even if they use mechanical means, the vines are deprived of any unripe grapes before the harvester actually gets to the vines.

 

Because of the very competitive nature of the wine market these days, winemakers and wineries often strive to make a difference in their wines, even if it's at the lower end, so the practices you "screamed about" rarely take place.

 

True enough the French wine industry, and the wine industries of other European countries were hit in the mid-1800s by a vine louse/pest called phylloxera, which attacked the vine roots in the main and caused vines to die off, and around 50% (estimates vary) of the French wines were affected and the country suffered badly.

 

The solution was found by grafting rootstock from American native vines, which were resistant to the pest, onto the French varieties, thereby saving the day, although it took a few decades to get back to some semblance of normality.

 

Indeed some of the original French vines escaped the pest and cuttings from those are still propagated in some vineyards.

 

As for checking the "delusion and find out how your beloved wine is really produced", well no need to because I have visited vineyards and wineries in France, Italy, Australia and New Zealand and have seen how they are produced and I'm very happy to drink their finished product.

 

Specifics are helpful in posts, whereas your shotgun approach doesn't rely on specifics.

 

Anyway as another poster has said, this post is about red wine bargains in Phuket, not as a place for you to air your inane ramblings.

Edited May 22, 2021 by xylophone

[churchill]

My weekly trip to Tesco , Still a few bottles of the Rioja at 315 baht also picked up a couple of bottles of Sancerre Rose 2017 ' Tesco Finest ' ???? at 415 baht .

 

' Tesco Finest ' in my mind just differentiates everyday goods or wine from slightly better quality , And as this thread is ' Red wine Bargain ' I don't think we will find a Rioja Gran Reserva or any other red wine of that quality at 315 Baht or less again .

[Jai Dee]

A confrontational troll post has been removed.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

6 hours ago, madmitch said:

I was not long ago given an expensive bottle of chateauneuf du pape. It just wasn't to my taste. Give me a 450 baht Hope's End red blend over that one any day.

 

Having said that, I did enjoy the Chateauneuf du Papes given to me by the owner and winemaker of Domaine du Pegau, Mdme Laurence Feraud, on my visit, and much better than the one from Tesco!!!!!