TM30 now required in Bangkok

[stud858]

My point when mentioning my experiences wether in jomtien or bkk is this. Rules written or not change with the wind and it's best to over do it with safety and expect everything everywhere everytime.

That's my take on it.

If you try to get one set scenario that you see is right you'll be tripped up eventually.

 

[indepth]

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

My point when mentioning my experiences wether in jomtien or bkk is this. Rules written or not change with the wind and it's best to over do it with safety and expect everything everywhere everytime.

That's my take on it.

If you try to get one set scenario that you see is right you'll be tripped up eventually.

 

very informative, thanks, now, what is the fine for no TM30

[stud858]

8 minutes ago, indepth said:

very informative, thanks, now, what is the fine for no TM30

Anywhere from nothing to thousands, depending on who you deal with. The written law on .gov website I believe stated 1900 baht if my memory serves me right. 

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Anywhere from nothing to thousands, depending on who you deal with. The written law on .gov website I believe stated 1900 baht if my memory serves me right. 

It is a maximum fine of 2000 baht for an individual. For a business it is minimum of 2,000 baht up to a max fine of 10,000 baht.

The norm for an individual is 800 baht to 1600 baht dependent upon the office where the report is done.

[tgeezer]

The topic should read : "TM 30 now required from me .... ". I renewed my extension since this report and have nothing to report.

 

 

 

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[Vacuum]

On 12/28/2018 at 6:51 AM, Ulic said:

The only time you don't need to file a TM 30 is if you are not going to need anything from immigration. No extension of stay, no residence certificate, nothing. You are of course legally required to file it but you will be in and out of the country without being caught. Kind of like speeding, until you are stopped by police, no worries. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the house master/owner or the hotel that's required to file it?

[MJKT2014]

55 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the house master/owner or the hotel that's required to file it?

Yes, the foreigner is supposed to file a TM28. As I own my home, I always file a TM28 and a TM30.

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

Yes, the foreigner is supposed to file a TM28.

The foreigner usually only has to do this if he can not stay at the place which he wrote on the TM6 arrival card.

Edited January 27, 2019 by jackdd

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

3 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

Yes, the foreigner is supposed to file a TM28. 

The foreigner usually only has to do this if he can not stay at the place which he wrote on the TM6 arrival card.

If taken literally, the address on the TM6 only relieves you of the requirement to file a TM28 if the TM6 address is in the same province where you enter Thailand. The rule states that you must inform the officials within 24 hours of arriving in their jurisdiction. Since Suvarnabhimi airport is in Samut Prakan, this would imply that anyone staying in Bangkok ought to submit a TM28 within 24 hours of reaching their hotel.

 

Of course, this is crazy given modern patterns of travel. However, the rules need to be understood in an historical context. 100 years ago, few foreigners moved around in Thailand, and those that did were legitimately (i) treated with suspicion; and (ii) subject to security risks that do not apply today. At the time, all internal travel was by land, usually by boat or over roads in a very poor condition. People arrived by sea, and tended to stay in the same place for a long time. Under those circumstances, a system where officials were made immediately aware of foreigners entering their area made perfect sense, and was not much of an imposition.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

The foreigner usually only has to do this if he can not stay at the place which he wrote on the TM6 arrival card.

To my knowledge, in practice, the TM-6 doesn't make any difference with regard to TM-30 or TM-28 report enforcement.  That is not to say I agree with this practice - and certainly wish it were as you described.

[DrJack54]

Can ONE member that does extension based on retirement at CW and has not change residence address been asked for a tm30. 

There must be one, if that's true. As I and many others on retirement extension have stated.."never been asked. That's for last seven years, in my case. Yes I haven't changed address, but all I take for extension is lease along with other standard stuff. I fly out bkk every 10-14 days. Back after few weeks or few days. NEVER been asked for tm30. So is that just luck? 

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Can ONE member that does extension based on retirement at CW and has not change residence address been asked for a tm30. 

There must be one, if that's true. As I and many others on retirement extension have stated.."never been asked. That's for last seven years, in my case. Yes I haven't changed address, but all I take for extension is lease along with other standard stuff. I fly out bkk every 10-14 days. Back after few weeks or few days. NEVER been asked for tm30. So is that just luck? 

The enforcement regime at some offices is you only need to report (or "be reported") if you move, or your first encounter with them, which could involve a fine, if not done when you first moved to their area.  That may be the case for Retirement at CW folks, pending any reports to the contrary. 

[tgeezer]

Can ONE member that does extension based on retirement at CW and has not change residence address been asked for a tm30. 
There must be one, if that's true. As I and many others on retirement extension have stated.."never been asked. That's for last seven years, in my case. Yes I haven't changed address, but all I take for extension is lease along with other standard stuff. I fly out bkk every 10-14 days. Back after few weeks or few days. NEVER been asked for tm30. So is that just luck? 

I take the paperwork specified on the application form, there is no mention of a lease or a TM 30, this year the only change was that they wanted s sketch map of my locality. Maybe next year they will ask for more.


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[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

I take the paperwork specified on the application form, there is no mention of a lease or a TM 30, this year the only change was that they wanted s sketch map of my locality. Maybe next year they will ask for more.


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I assume you did this at CW. I always take my lease and they take it. Maybe if I did not then they would not ask. As we know some io differ. One thing you mention which I can back up is the map. Never every been asked for one. This recent extension (November), lady asked for map. I had condo flyer in my bag which has map on back. She accepted that. So extension folk be prepared.

[Maestro]

14 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the house master/owner or the hotel that's required to file it?

For a private residence, ie not a hotel or guest house, section 38 of the Immigration Act requires the house-master, the possessor or the owner of the residence to make the notification of the arrival of an alien at the residence.

[tgeezer]

I was at CW and noticed that changes are afoot regarding address. I stay at a private house and the owner in typical Thai fashion, says that he doesn’t have to fill out a TM 40 and maybe Immigration respects that!
However this year I need a driving licence and confirmation of address is needed so I made a foray over J1 desk last month armed with a TM40 from the housemaster plus copies of what appear to be the deeds, the question is do I have enough bumph or will I be back and forth on a whim? I was reluctant because five years ago making enquires at J1 with no paperwork and inadequate Thai, the officer seemed annoyed was very rude and refused to even speak to me. This year I was twenty something in the queue so gave up having already spent five hours waiting for renewal of retirement.
I know that new requirements taken up with zeal, eventually become routine and fear that by declaring a TM40 now I may become involved in this progression.


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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 1/24/2019 at 10:51 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So, in the wake of my failure with their online site, I'm going to mail in a TM30 report to CW Immigration, with a note in EN and TH pointing out that I've never been asked for this in XX years of living here, and asking if they're now requiring it from folks like me -- a house renter.  And see what if anything I get back in my SASE envelope.

 

 

Just to close the loop on this, I did mail in to Chaengwattana Immigration my own TM-30 form as a renter, not an owner. And today in the mail, just a few days later, I got back the TM-30 receipt in my self-addressed stamped envelope.

 

(I'm pretty sure, in all my years living in Thailand in the same home, my home's owner has never submitted a TM-30 on my behalf because, among other things, they don't have any of my current passport or visa information).

 

When I mailed in my TM-30 form, I sent along signed copies of my:

--passbook face page

--arrival stamp page

--visa stamp page

--TM 6 departure slip, and

--current housing rental agreement

 

I DID NOT send a copy of my house owner's tabien ban or a copy of their Thai ID card, neither of which I have. And the lack of those didn't seem to cause any problem for them processing and returning my TM-30 receipt.

 

When I sent in my TM-30 form, I also sent along a note in both English and Thai asking whether, as a renter, they wanted me the renter, or, the Thai owner of my home, to be submitting the TM-30. I didn't get back any answer to that question.

 

Instead, they sent me a double-sided, single sheet entirely in Thai language (and not a word in English) laying out all the rules and requirements for the TM-30 reporting, which as best as I can tell talks mostly about owners of homes and hotel operators and such.

 

I also got no answer to the other question I posed, being whether they'd want to see a TM-30 receipt from me as a renter when I go to do a marriage or retirement extension later in the year.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 1/28/2019 at 1:52 AM, Maestro said:

For a private residence, ie not a hotel or guest house, section 38 of the Immigration Act requires the house-master, the possessor or the owner of the residence to make the notification of the arrival of an alien at the residence.

 

But how is that language interpreted regarding a person who's a renter?  In other words, a renter is clearly not the owner... But is a renter the house master or possessor in Thai Immigration's manner of thinking?

 

I don't know what the terms house-master or possessor are supposed to mean!

 

[Maestro]

34 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Just to close the loop on this, I did mail in to Chaengwattana Immigration my own TM-30 form as a renter, not an owner. And today in the mail, just a few days later, I got back the TM-30 receipt in my self-addressed stamped envelope.

 

When I mailed in my TM-30 form, I sent along signed copies of my:

--passbook face page

--arrival stamp page

--visa stamp page

--TM 6 departure slip, and

--current housing rental agreement

 

I DID NOT send a copy of my house owner's tabien ban or a copy of their Thai ID card, neither of which I have. And the lack of those didn't seem to cause any problem for them processing and returning my TM-30 receipt...

That's the way to go and how everybody who gets to deal with an obstinate immigration office (IO) should do it. You mailed your TM.30 in your function of house-master, meaning the chief possessor of the residence in your capacity as tenant, as defined by section 4 of the Immigration Act.

 

Don't ask your IO if they allow mailing of the form; the law and the Public Handbook available on the immigration website allow it and it is not for an IO to choose.

 

Don't ask why the IO wants the TM.30 now when they never asked for it for the past xx years; the law specifies this requirement and the IO ows you no explanation for what is, legally speaking, their past dereliction of duty and prodding them to confess this crime to you in writing won't endear them to you.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Don't ask your IO if they allow mailing of the form; the law and the Public Handbook available on the immigration website allow it and it is not for an IO choose.

 

I didn't ask them that at all... I asked whether it was MY responsibility as a renter, or the responsibility of the house's owner.

 

The rules and procedures for TM-30 reporting clearly allow the mailing in of TM-30 submissions.

 

 

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, Maestro said:

You mailed your TM.30 in your function of house-master, meaning the chief possessor of the residence in your capacity as tenant, as defined by section 4 of the Immigration Act.

He isn't the house master, the house master is named in the house book, and i doubt he has his name in the house book.

He might be in the function of "possessor" though.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

He isn't the house master, the house master is named in the house book, and i doubt he has his name in the house book.

He might be in the function of "possessor" though.

 

My name is not listed in the house book for the location where I rent/live, nor has it ever been.

 

As I mentioned above, I have no idea how Immigration interprets their use of the English term "possessor..."  And it never mattered before for all the years I've lived here.

 

But, I'm willing to spend an hour of my time and a trip to the post office once a year (after my journey outside Thailand) to mail a stupid form and supporting documents, and get back the TM 30 receipt to have in my possession, in order to ensure that I don't face any kind of fine the next time I go to do my extension of stay.

 

I guess I'll find out in the fall if CW Immigration is or isn't demanding to see TM-30 receipts as part of marriage or retirement extensions, since no kind of clear answer to that has been forthcoming here.

 

 

[Maestro]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

He isn't the house master, the house master is named in the house book, and i doubt he has his name in the house book.

He might be in the function of "possessor" though.

For purposes of implementation of the Immigration Act, the tenant is without any doubt the house-master as defined by section 4 of the Act. Ask any lawyer worth his salt and he will confirm it.

[jackdd]

18 minutes ago, Maestro said:

For purposes of implementation of the Immigration Act, the tenant is without any doubt the house-master as defined by section 4 of the Act. Ask any lawyer worth his salt and he will confirm it.

The immigration act says (the translation seems to be about correct)

Quote

"House Master" means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house, whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act.

Just having a rental contract in your name does for sure not make you the house master according to the "law on people act" (or everybody with a rental contract could register / unregister people at his address), and because the house master in the immigration act is in accordance to the house master in the "law on people act" you don't become one in this case either.

Edited January 31, 2019 by jackdd

[Maestro]

When you are the house-master because you are the possessor in your capacity of tenant you do not at the same time have to be the house-master master in any other capacity. Please notice the word "or" in the text you quoted.

[stud858]

Maestro, master of the house, this is playing out like a Seinfeld episode.

TM30 is not hard to do and I haven't heard of anyone being charged for filing. It's free and fun. I throw all definitions and rules out the window and go whenever away from my bed for 24hrs. It's my one and only rule that beats all other rules or definitions.

Just one concerning thing for people is when the owner won't supply details( chanot,tax papers etc.) if asked by officer , you have no way but to find a new address.

Have a great day everyone

Edited February 1, 2019 by stud858

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, stud858 said:

Maestro, master of the house, this is playing out like a Seinfeld episode.

TM30 is not hard to do and I haven't heard of anyone being charged for filing. It's free and fun. I throw all definitions and rules out the window and go whenever away from my bed for 24hrs. It's my one and only rule that beats all other rules or definitions.

Just one concerning thing for people is when the owner won't supply details( chanot,tax papers etc.) if asked by officer , you have no way but to find a new address.

Have a great day everyone

You are missing the point. When an immigration official (illegally) asks for owner's details which the owner declines to supply,  you have the option of doing exactly as TallGuyJohninBKK did, described in this post:

 

Quote

 

When I mailed in my TM-30 form, I sent along signed copies of my:

--passbook face page

--arrival stamp page

--visa stamp page

--TM 6 departure slip, and

--current housing rental agreement

 

 

The only item I would add to the above list is a stamped, self-addressed envelope for the return of the notification receipt, which TallGuyJohninBKK probably also mailed.

[stud858]

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

You are missing the point. When an immigration official (illegally) asks for owner's details which the owner declines to supply,  you have the option of doing exactly as TallGuyJohninBKK did, described in this post:

 

 

The only item I would add to the above list is a stamped, self-addressed envelope for the return of the notification receipt, which TallGuyJohninBKK probably also mailed.

The officers wanting to go by their rules may be tossing those letters in bin, but I agree it is a very good way to avoid the owner detail problem. 

[ChouDoufu]

mail-in tm-30 questions:

 

i am currently outside the kingdom, will be returning for the summer, staying with girlfriend (rent in her name) in bangkok.  next retirement extension in the fall.

 

i would like mail the tm-30 to immigration, but with no rental contract in my name, i cannot register myself. 

 

would i be correct in assuming that as house mistress, she can register me with the tm-30 form, the docs tallguy listed, plus her id, rental contract and sase?

 

mailing address is the same as for 90-day reporting at cw?

 

is there an option for thais to register a guest in their apartments at a local police station?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/1/2019 at 1:34 PM, Maestro said:

The only item I would add to the above list is a stamped, self-addressed envelope for the return of the notification receipt, which TallGuyJohninBKK probably also mailed.

 

I actually did mention including SASE in that same post of mine you quoted:

 

Quote

Just to close the loop on this, I did mail in to Chaengwattana Immigration my own TM-30 form as a renter, not an owner. And today in the mail, just a few days later, I got back the TM-30 receipt in my self-addressed stamped envelope.

 

SASE with a 10 baht postage stamp pasted on.

 

For the one slip of paper that Immigration typically returns, I gather lesser postage would suffice.... But I just do 10 baht to be on the safe side.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK