BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

So guys who have the 800 000 baht but no more will not be wanted your saying ,harsh if they have a wife and a home kids and have lived here a long time dont you think?

If they have a Thai wife and/or kids, they shouldn't be here on a retirement extension.

They should have an extension or VISA to visit their wife/kids.

(Which is what I get)

[fforest1]

12 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yeah those anti-farang xenophobes have; increased visa exempt extensions to 30 days, introduced a ME tourist visa good for 6 months, revamped and improved the TE scheme, introduced a long term retirement visa, introduced a smart (work permit free) visa, and provided a solution to the loss of embassy letters!

1.Most westerners already had 30 days...

2 The ME tourist visa has loads of requirements and is a pain and much harder to get than the double tourist visa was...

3.The 10 year visa is so great that virtually no one wants one...lol

4.The smart visa is so Hi-so that virtually no one can get one....

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, madmen said:

Yep those running to vietnam or PI Are in for a rude shock!
Those running to Cambodia are in for a huge culture shock. Even a free lifetime visa would not change my experiences of that place.. Better to just go home where we have no hassles

I liked all those places, didn't seem all that different to Thailand IMHO.

[Oxx]

29 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yeah those anti-farang xenophobes have ... introduced a long term retirement visa

 

I think I may have missed something.  Care to elucidate?

[steve73]

If I'm understanding this correctly, the seasoning requirement has now been reduced to just 2 months for any extension in this coming year.

 

The 800k balance must then be maintained for 3 months, and 400k minimum thereafter, with the last 2 months seasoning for the full 800k, all of which are required for the NEXT extension.  This will take some careful planning for many retirees.

 

For those that need "assistance", agents will probably be able to accommodate the requirements for the coming extension, but they could prove much less accommodating (or a LOT more expensive) next year when they need to somehow show the full years "seasoning" requirements.

 

This could be a ticking time bomb....  

[whitemouse]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

90 day visa runs needed though, right? That's not a long term plan for retirees. (This topic is about a retirement extension issue.) 

Americans get 1 year tourist visa.

 

Rest of Western passports 90 day tourist visa, all done online, never need to gather bank statements, flight tickets, hotel reservations and drag it all to Thai consulates in nearby countries, and with a good chance that 3rd consecutive TR will be denied. Just happened to Russian friend of mine.

 

Vietnam visa is walk in a park.

[whitemouse]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

No there aren’t. Most retirees will not have a problem meeting the new rules.

 

The changes are not down to xenophobia! if they didn’t want us they wouldn’t offer visas and long term permits to stay!

 

Because for most retirees it is not a problem.

 

I often wonder if you have  slightest clue about what is going on in Thailand. 

 

This thread should tell you serious this is for perhaps half of all expats, and you go "Hey, where's the problem, they live us here!"

[ocddave]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Not going to happen. Permission to stay is to visit/stay with your family. That’s why the financials are far less than a retiree, and will always be less.

I meant something like doubling each requirement (marriage/retirement), which if they haven't been changed in years, would not be out of the question.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

1.Most westerners already had 30 days...

No they didn’t.

 

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

2 The ME tourist visa has loads of requirements and is a pain and much harder to get than the double tourist visa was...

No problem for the frequently visiting tourists it’s aimed at. Better for frequently visiting tourists than a DETV.

only a problem for people trying UK use tourist visas to live in the country.

 

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

3.The 10 year visa is so great that virtually no one wants one...lol

Irrelevant. It isn’t “tightening”.

 

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

4.The smart visa is so Hi-so that virtually no one can get one....

Irrelevant. It isn’t “tightening”.

 

Give an example of all this “tightening” that doesn’t include misuse of tourist or ED visas.

[sqwakvfr]

This may create a new Class of Visa Runners:  Old Guys crammed in a van with Millenial Digital Nomad types doing a land border run to obtain a new SETV.  My belief is if one really needs to stay in LOS and cannot meet the new requirements then do what the young Digital Nomads have been doing for years.  I new several millennials who lived in LOS for over two years strictly doing border visa runs.  A single SETV can be squeezed out for 89 days + a Border Run that can be squeezed out for 89 more days.  This makes it almost 6 months.  

 

Another example is that guy on YouTube:  Thailand Rob who did the Visa runs for more than two years and he is close to 50.  

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, whitemouse said:

I often wonder if you have  slightest clue about what is going on in Thailand. 

 

This thread should tell you serious this is for perhaps half of all expats, and you go "Hey, where's the problem, they live us here!"

“Half of expats”. LOL.

 

Yet another massive exaggeration from someone overreacting to a small change.

 

In order to live in Thailand you need 800K PLUS whatever money you spend to live on. 

 

You can’t live in Thailand on just 800K. You need other income or cash. Anyone that doesn’t have that can’t afford to retire in Thailand under the current rules. Those that do should have no problem meeting these changes, even if they don’t like them.

 

Give me an example of someone that’s already retired in Thailand that cannot stay because of the changes.

[whitemouse]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I suspect there aren't many people in the world with a year's spare cash floating around their bank accounts.

Let alone pensioners.

 

It's not exactly 'living on a financial cliff', as you put it, it's normal living in the modern world, hand to mouth.

Next you'll be suggesting all the business in the world should be keeping a years stock, try telling that to a supermarket or car factory manager, they'll laugh in your face.

 

Seventy-eight percent of full-time workers said they live paycheck to paycheck, up from 75 percent last year, according to a recent report from CareerBuilder.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/more-than-75-percent-of-us-online-consumers-shop-on-amazon-most-of-the-time.html?&qsearchterm=75 percent americans pay check

 

And few posters here claim that most expats should not have a problem showing 800k thb on their bank account. 

 

My guess is that it's not half who don't have the 800k, it's far more. 

 

This is a true disaster for older expats. Most 75 year olds have known only one home for decades - Thailand. Now they are supposed to start over in a new country, or return to West. Many have families, who can not join them, this is simply cruel. 

Some people muse here how is so difficult to save $25.000 USD. Reason is simple, gov pension is the most secure income, it is deposited to their bank every month like clockwork. That is one of the  reasons retirees often do not save, they go and spend monthly pension, because next check is guaranteed. 

 

Some argue that expat should have savings, to cover health emergencies. True, except 800k is nothing in a private hospital, it is not nearly enough to cover anything serious. So they may as well not have the 800k, because for health care reasons, this amount is nothing, so they don't save. 

 

If enforced, this  law is real life changing  tragedy for more people than we realize.

 

And then there are those who say "don't have the 65.000 thb coming in every month, then you have have no business being here in a first place."

What if they receive 40.000 thb monthly, more than enough to live here comfortably here? People who take joy in fellow man's misery make me sick! And they are always the same douche*bags. 

[whitemouse]

On 1/31/2019 at 4:06 PM, Toscano said:

I can see a mass exodus from Thailand in the near future .  My guess is that there are a very large number of people who will find it difficult to qualify .  Thailand benefits enormously from a very large number of people supporting the internal economy ; having to maintain Bt800,000 static in an account will likely reduce their spending .

 

Yep, this is serious. Earlier many posted that agents and IOs will be making more money now, I think it's the opposite, if expats needs to show bank statement every 3 months, expat would have to pay a fee to an agent 4 times a year, not once a year as it has been for long time. Paying agent fee4 times every year is not doable, the cost is prohibitive. 

 

This time they really put in the last nail for many, if 78 percent of fully employed Americans in US don't have any savings, and live pay check to pay check, what is the percentage of expats having $25.000 USD sitting in a bank? My guess is less than 10 percent have the 800k THB in a bank here. Even that number may be optimistic. Most people simply don't have savings.

 

As for health care, it is very common in US having to resort to bankruptcy over serious medical issue. What do you think is the chance a 70 year old expat in Thailand can cover private hospital costs here? Very few. 

 

If enforced, I fail to see workaround, agents are no use, like someone said earlier, this will create a new class of people, 70 year old visa runners. But how many are physically fit to do even that?

 

If this stands, it will be exodus, as you said. There is no alternative, some will move to Cambodia and Vietnam, many are not able to.

 

The saddest part of coming exodus is that only the expat leaves Thailand, how many families will be broken up? How many  fathers separated from sons and daughters? Lives damaged for NO GOOD REASON. I'm honest now, I hate this country. It is impossible to love it any longer. 

 

[sqwakvfr]

What is the penalty if one let’s the balance of the 800K in the bank fall below 400K?  Will this result in immediate arrest, detention and then deportation or just a fine?  

[chickenslegs]

10 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

What is the penalty if one let’s the balance of the 800K in the bank fall below 400K?  Will this result in immediate arrest, detention and then deportation or just a fine?  

Best guess is that it will result in refusal to renew one's extension of permission to remain in Thailand.

 

 

[camble]

They won't approve the next extension request, so you'll have to visit a neighboring country to obtain a tourist visa, have that converted to a Non-A, seed another 800,000 for 2 months and apply for another extension.  Do this every year and you've circumvented this new order.

[peterrabbit]

36 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

And few posters here claim that most expats should not have a problem showing 800k thb on their bank account. 

 

My guess is that it's not half who don't have the 800k, it's far more. 

Well said !

 

I am fortunate as I can do this. But the real question is do I want to spend the rest of my life in a Country that will toss me out like a piece of trash when I'm older and poorer in 10/20 years with another of their goal post changes which will make it impossible for me to remain ? 

 

The real question is whether there is any long term future here for retired expats who do not have bags of gold ? 

 

If the authorities were really interested in attracting retirees then they would have a realistic long term package in place rather than the (only apply if your a multi millionaire) Elite visa options. A scheme that incorporated expats into the Thai institutions and society rather than treating them as aliens fit only as cash cows. The expat community has a wealth of lifetime knowledge and experience and wealth which could benefit Thailand tremendously but the authorities choose NOT to call on this precious resource erecting barrier after barrier to prevent us from incorporating into Thai society.

 

As long as Expats are treated as foreign infidels by the Authorities and not as valued members of Thai society then there can be no long term future for Expats in Thailand.

 

Thailand, do you want the expat community to be a valued part of Thai society? YES or No?

 

If it's yes then give us a realistic retirement package that is more than just a yearly visa extension.

 

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

One of the questions is: even if you have 800k do you want it stuck in a Thai bank and not invested?

Those that have bought property will have more than 800k invested and this should qualify the same as a local bank account.

The income rules are rigidly adhered to by the Thais that cannot think outside of the box.

Income from investments does not necessarily come each and every month, dividends are not paid that way. On a yearly basis many would qualify, or at least need to deposit less than 800k.

This is another case of a Thai official letting his mouth do the talking not his brain (?).

Is this "directive" legal, amending law without government? I know the IP seem to make their own rules from day to day and office to office and still wonder how it is possible.

It could cause many expats to pack up and leave as there are plenty of alternatives, maybe leaving behind families to fend for themselves.

I have no problem with 'good guys in, bad guys out' but this is not targeting drug dealers, scammers, illegal entry or even overstay.

Time for a rethink Big Joke as this is not necessary or funny.

????

 

 

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

One of the questions is: even if you have 800k do you want it stuck in a Thai bank and not invested?

Then leave it wherever you want and transfer 65K to Thailand every month and use the income method.

 

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Those that have bought property will have more than 800k invested and this should qualify the same as a local bank account.

It’s not an investment visa/permit. It’s based on retirement so they want to see the money you live on in or coming in to the country.

 

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The income rules are rigidly adhered to by the Thais that cannot think outside of the box.

Income from investments does not necessarily come each and every month, dividends are not paid that way. On a yearly basis many would qualify, or at least need to deposit less than 800k.

A retirement extension is meant for retirees that have a monthly income or cash in the bank. 

 

If you receive income less frequently you’ll have to juggle it and send it monthly.

 

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

This is another case of a Thai official letting his mouth do the talking not his brain (?).

Is this "directive" legal, amending law without government? I know the IP seem to make their own rules from day to day and office to office and still wonder how it is possible.

Of course it’s legal. 

 

Immigration law gives the Immigration Commission, Director General of the Police and Minister of the Interior the necessary powers.

 

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

It could cause many expats to pack up and leave as there are plenty of alternatives, maybe leaving behind families to fend for themselves.

Maybe some, but not many. 

 

Why would someone already with the required 800K plus living expenses need to leave because of these changes?

 

[tingtongtourist]

On 2/1/2019 at 12:18 AM, jackdd said:

You can't forget it, you have to show it every 3 months ????

 

The agent deposits 400k / 800k or whatever is required on this date into the bank account, gets a letter from the bank stating that the money is in the bank account, and withdraws the money again. The IO will not ask for any papers which explicitly say the money was there all the time.

Of course an IO will only "forget" to ask an agent about such papers, if YOU go to get your extension you can be sure he wants to see a proof for every single day.

For you guys who believe this 100%, why not find all these bent IOs yourself,

and offer them a tip?

 

it cuts out the middleman agent and could save you 10k or so

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, ocddave said:

I'm waiting for them to increase the marriage/retirement amounts (400k/800k), then we can watch the sh**storm really hit the fan.

It would seem the height of bad planning and be deliberate baiting if another change came along soon !

[Patriot1066]

13 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I can't understand anyone using the first option. Rate changes, letters and all those issues?  put 800k in your saving account and LEAVE IT there. Simple?

Yes very simple and fair! And at least you get some interest unlike the UK.

 

I am not sure what the fuss is about actually it's such a relatively tiny amount in any case a couple of months work. And the rule change is so very very small, you were suposed to have the money available in the bank not borrow it for the day, so what's the real issue here about?

 

In fact the big question people should be asking is how many people have been fiddling the system giving the rest of us a bad name and effective lying to immigration about their financial status? 

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Then leave it wherever you want and transfer 65K to Thailand every month and use the income method.

 

It’s not an investment visa/permit. It’s based on retirement so they want to see the money you live on in or coming in to the country.

 

A retirement extension is meant for retirees that have a monthly income or cash in the bank. 

 

If you receive income less frequently you’ll have to juggle it and send it monthly.

 

Of course it’s legal. 

 

Immigration law gives the Immigration Commission, Director General of the Police and Minister of the Interior the necessary powers.

 

Maybe some, but not many. 

 

Why would someone already with the required 800K plus living expenses need to leave because of these changes?

 

Very few retirees that met the previous criteria should have to leave. So this will only in practice affect those that fiddled the system so in fact had no genuine entitlement to have a retirement visa in the first place. 

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

it's such a relatively tiny amount in any case a couple of months work. 

Have you failed to grasp we are talking about RETIREMENT Extensions?

[ocddave]

3 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

In fact the big question people should be asking is how many people have been fiddling the system giving the rest of us a bad name and effective lying to immigration about their financial status? 

Some of us weren't lying, we just used a different method, one that didn't force us to move any amount money into a Thai bank account, or even transfer any certain amount of our wealth to Thailand. What it did was allow us to declare money we were receiving abroad, basically our income, not imported money to Thailand. It was legal AND accepted! The following declaration is not a lie, unless someone abused it, which I assume some did, it also doesn't state gross/net values, which "net income" made no sense to me anyway, because everyone's net income varies based on taxes/investments/etc.

 

Quote

I also affirm that I receive USD $ ________________ every month from the United States Government and/or
other sources. I am applying for a Thai visa/ or extension of a current Thai visa and any assistance you can
provide in this request will be greatly appreciated
 

 

[wayned]

Just now, ocddave said:

Some of us weren't lying, we just used a different method, one that didn't force us to move any amount money into a Thai bank account, or even transfer any certain amount of our wealth to Thailand. What it did was allow us to declare money we were receiving abroad, basically our income, not imported money to Thailand. It was legal AND accepted! The following declaration is not a lie, unless someone abused it, which I assume some did, it also doesn't state gross/net values, which "net income" made no sense to me anyway, because everyone's net income varies based on taxes/investments/etc.

 

 

One of the problem is that in the past it didn't have to be deposited into a Thai bank account, it could remain anywhere.  Now it has to be deposited in  Thai bank account.

[ocddave]

1 minute ago, wayned said:

One of the problem is that in the past it didn't have to be deposited into a Thai bank account, it could remain anywhere.  Now it has to be deposited in  Thai bank account.

Exactly, which changes everything, because I am sure a lot us have lives in both countries, not just Thailand. The old method allowed us to manage our lives in both places, not forced to commit everything to one country or the other. Now anyone on the cusp will have to probably sell assets in their home country and transfer money to satisfy Thai Immigration, more than likely cutting themselves off from returning. A big decision, especially when Thailand and their Immigration office are so unstable, not to mention we are effectively living under a dictatorship.

[marcusarelus]

11 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Did I say only retired people....Nope......They have been making lots of new visa rules for all visa classes for a number years....The last 2 years they have really cranked things up....And every last change has been a tightening....

Be specific when you post.  I'll only respond to rules that I'm familiar with such as retired person's visas. 

[marcusarelus]

5 hours ago, camble said:

They won't approve the next extension request, so you'll have to visit a neighboring country to obtain a tourist visa, have that converted to a Non-A, seed another 800,000 for 2 months and apply for another extension.  Do this every year and you've circumvented this new order.

What is the best country to do this from?

[inThailand]

6 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

What is the penalty if one let’s the balance of the 800K in the bank fall below 400K?  Will this result in immediate arrest, detention and then deportation or just a fine?  

Most likely just the norm here, a back hander.