Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Depends if your passbook is updated regularly and the codes clearly reflect an overseas deposit. 

Even a local bank statement may not clearly define deposits as from a foreign source, because most transfers go through a separate channel before hitting your local account.

Immigration advised to get statements from the HQ of your branch.

 

This is something everyone is going to have to check with their own bank/branch.

Some Immigration Offices require a bank-issued and stamped statement (e.g., Phuket).  They have been satisfied in the past with a local bank statement proving your balance during the seasoning period for the old lump-sum method.

 

With the new rules, I would imagine that the local bank statement will still suffice for the lump-sum method, although a complicating factor is that some local banks don't maintain records for your account older than six-months so it may result in a request to the Head Quarters of your bank.

 

If you are doing the monthly-deposit method then a statement from your bank's Head Quarters will probably be needed as most local banks don't keep more than six months of data on your account and there's talk of a special format for this bank statement that may only show international deposits and contain more detailed information about the source of those deposits.

[wobalt]

How many Chinese do you reckon apply for the types of extensions reliant on embassy letters?

I don’t know but I know many Chinese investing now heavily in properties in Thailand


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[Gweiloman]

I don’t know but I know many Chinese investing now heavily in properties in Thailand


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I doubt very much that the Chinese investing in properties would need to rely on their embassies letter to prove their income [emoji16]


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[Just Weird]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 4:45 PM, Tanoshi said:

Income method.

1). A minimum income of 40K per month deposited in a Thai bank from overseas for the previous 12 month period. Local passbooks or statements may not confirm overseas payments.

You can request statements (at your local bank branch) for detailed statements from their HQ, itemising foreign transactions as Bahtnet or Foreign TT deposits. Takes approx 5 days to process. + Bank letter.

According to TI, all bank HQ's are already aware of Immigrations requirements for detailed statements showing overseas transfers, which your local branch may not be able to confirm or supply.

2. A certified letter of income from your Embassy

So there are 2 requirements for the income method [1) and 2.] or should there be an "or" between them in your post?

[Graviton]

On 2/11/2019 at 4:55 PM, Maestro said:

Thank you. That clears it up for the – unnamed – immigration office to whose officials you talked. Let's hope that the officials at other immigration offices have an equally good understanding and interpretation of the new procedures.

UK has P60 which is a legal income/tax document.  Why cannot use this its straight from the gov.

[thesa]

How does one prove 800K remains in the bank for three months after being granted the extension? Another trip to Immigration with a 100 baht letter from the bank and your updated passbook? Would the three month reporting that funds remain in the bank be enforced with a visa cancellation?

[sfokevin]

26 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I doubt very much that the Chinese investing in properties would need to rely on their embassies letter to prove their income


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Need!... It’s very likely these Chinese do not want their embassy to know their income... 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, thesa said:

How does one prove 800K remains in the bank for three months after being granted the extension? Another trip to Immigration with a 100 baht letter from the bank and your updated passbook? Would the three month reporting that funds remain in the bank be enforced with a visa cancellation?

That is not mentioned in the new rules as to when or how it will be checked.

It is assumed at this time it will not be checked until you go to apply for your next extension.

[wobalt]

Need!... It’s very likely these Chinese do not want their embassy to know their income... 

Could be, many Chinese companies are registered for example in the Virgin Islands or Panama


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[Sheryl]

 

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

No thanks, happy with the actual system, which I use since many years.

 

No need to have any amount on a Thai bankbook.

 

Can transfer the amount  I want, when I want.

 

Can even use Transferwise now, without having  to worry how the funds will be indicated on my bankbook.

 

Hope it will continue this way.

 

Are you  from a country that still issues Embassy letters?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

 

...Order 35/22562 hasn't replaced order 327/2557, it's in addition to that order with minor changes and supposed to clarify the process, but appears to have had the opposite effect.

 

Understatement of the week!!! ????

[Tanoshi]

37 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

So there are 2 requirements for the income method [1) and 2.] or should there be an "or" between them in your post?

There are now two options available, that was what the amendment was for.

Either, or, whichever you prefer.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

...There is a meeting of immigration hierarchy happening in Bangkok sometime this week to clarify all the changes....

????First good news in a while.

 

Let us hope it (1) results in clarity and (2) that there is some systematic dissemination of that to lower levels.

[Just Weird]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

There are now two options available, that was what the amendment was for.

Either, or, whichever you prefer.

That's why I asked the question whether you missed out the "or".   Your "interpretations" did not state that.  Thanks for putting it right, perhaps you should alter your OP to reflect that?

[luckyluke]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Are you  from a country that still issues Embassy letters?

Yes, I am Belgian. 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

For what it's worth, I think Immigration have completely misinterpreted this new order 35/2562.

For funds method I believe the new order was only changing the requirement of 60 days, to 2 months for the very first application, then confirming thereafter it was 3 months seasoning before the next application.

 

However because of the ambiguously written order that has been interpreted as keeping 800K deposited in a Thai bank for 3 months, directly after the extension is issued.

 

Perhaps this meeting will clarify the order. 

@Tanoshi -  I don't have  the degree of written Thai fluency that would enable me to determine from the original Thai what the possible interpretations are, but from what I know of thai sentence construction etc  I can imagine a possible way that the "800K 3 month after" part could be a  misunderstanding, with "after" really meaning all future extensions.

 

But there was no prior 400K reference, that element is totally new. Are you saying you think the actual idea may have been  800k seasoned 2/3 months beforehand and then a minimal balance of 400k thereafter? This does make a bit more sense though will still essentially require a de facto 400K bond

[Tanoshi]

25 minutes ago, thesa said:

How does one prove 800K remains in the bank for three months after being granted the extension? Another trip to Immigration with a 100 baht letter from the bank and your updated passbook? Would the three month reporting that funds remain in the bank be enforced with a visa cancellation?

Read the full post 1.

Quote

Immigration will check at your next application date if you have complied with the seasoning periods for the previous year.

 

[mrwebb8825]

On 2/11/2019 at 4:45 PM, Tanoshi said:

Income method.

1). A minimum income of 40K per month deposited in a Thai bank from overseas for the previous 12 month period. Local passbooks or statements may not confirm overseas payments.

This is real? If yes then it's real stupid. Why does the money for current income HAVE to come from overseas?

[steve73]

Quick heads up for those of you who may be considering switching from a retirement extension using an embassy income letter, to a marriage extension using either income or cash in the bank.

 

I've heard of three people who have tried to do this in the past few weeks that have been refused, or it's been made VERY difficult for them.. not all in the same regional office.

In one case, the drop in the GBP which was previously borderline OK, is now insufficient.  Another was using Transferwise and doesn't trust that they will accept the deposits as being sourced from outside T/L, so has topped up his account but could only get to 400k in time. 

 

It's possible that Immigration Officers may suspect that they want to change because they thought that the previous letters may have been "dubious".  Or maybe that don't want all the extra work..?

 

But the message seems to be clear... If you're on the "retirement" try to remain on that method if possible.

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

@Tanoshi -  I don't have  the degree of written Thai fluency that would enable me to determine from the original Thai what the possible interpretations are, but from what I know of thai sentence construction etc  I can imagine a possible way that the "800K 3 month after" part could be a  misunderstanding, with "after" really meaning all future extensions.

Just my own opinion, but yes I think the only changes to the funds method, was the previous 60 days for a very first extension has now been changed to 2 months, then 'after' 3 months for subsequent extensions (as per original order).

Quote

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no
less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must
have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no
less than 60 days prior to the filing date:

 

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

But there was no prior 400K reference, that element is totally new. Are you saying you think the actual idea may have been  800k seasoned 2/3 months beforehand and then a minimal balance of 400k thereafter? This does make a bit more sense though will still essentially require a de facto 400K bond 

Yes, that again is completely new and would be an addition to the existing order.

 

I stress, that's just my own opinion, Immigration had a very different ide as I posted and it's their rules and interpretation we must follow. I argued it was counter constructive against there own requirement that a foreigner requires 65K per month as living expenditure and many expats could simply change to the income method, causing more work for them..

That was when I got the 'is guy thick' look and they wrote the figures using a calendar reference.

800,800, (prior to very first app)

then, 800,800,800, 400,400,400,400,400, 400, then 800,800,800 before next extension.

 

Hopefully this meeting in Bangkok that elviajero announced will finally bring some clarity to IO's and definition of orders.

[wobalt]

All the fuzz started when the named embassies stopped the income letters. Why not put pressure on them to reinstall the letters?


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[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I can see no reason that after a number of years retired or married, and not having problems with the law, PR could not be extended

PR is extended for life, every 5 years, even after retirement.

Sorry, I could have worded that better.  By "extended" I meant "extend the program to them" - i.e. foreigners who never took a Thai job, but who have been married or retired here for years, should be offered PR, or something akin to PR.

[Tanoshi]

43 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

This is real? If yes then it's real stupid. Why does the money for current income HAVE to come from overseas?

Because that's what Immigration have stated.

If your retired, then where does your income come from?

[JackThompson]

49 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

This is real? If yes then it's real stupid. Why does the money for current income HAVE to come from overseas?

It supports a form of extension, "retirement," where work is not permitted.  The catch is, people could receive income from passive-investments in Thailand.  I do not know if there is any way a person who is retired could use a Thai tax-return to show Thai passive-income - don't recall hearing of such.

 

18 minutes ago, steve73 said:

the message seems to be clear... If you're on the "retirement" try to remain on that method if possible.

As soon as they restore the same rules those people used to retire here, that might be possible.  They brought any extra work on themselves with these changes, which do nothing to address the claimed "problem." 

 

If they are unwilling to restore the offer they made to current retirees - the conditions under which people chose to retire here - then the least they can do is allow retirees who are also married to a Thai to use the alternative extension, to avoid splitting up families over their "only 28-days warning" change. 

 

That said, what you report does not at all surprise me.  They screw up (run corruption-rackets, and deceive people retroactively, by changing the rules they "retired" on), then blame the foreigners, who have no control over the idiotic rule changes.

Edited February 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Where does the 7 come from?

12-3-2

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Passbook and letter from your bank.

Provided that a number of transactions printed out on a passbook updating machine whose printer ribbon needed changing have not been overprinted with subsequent transactions printed out on a machine with a fresh ribbon, thus resulting in an illegible mess. A bank statement will probably be required where this has happened so as to provide the immigration officer considering an extension of stay application with a clear and complete record of relevant transactions.

 

3 hours ago, wobalt said:

If you transfer money from overseas you not pay taxes into Thailand’s economy but in your home country


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Depends on the origin(s) of the transferred money in your home country and the terms of the double taxation treaty between your home country and Thailand.

Edited February 13, 2019 by OJAS

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

Depends on the origin(s) of the transferred money in your home country and the terms of the double taxation treaty between your home country and Thailand.

Well many people will have to show 65,000 pcm income and that certainly gets you into the Thailand tax bracket... but one for another day and long thread!

[mrwebb8825]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Because that's what Immigration have stated.

If your retired, then where does your income come from?

I am not retired. I am married and working here. My quote from your OP was the 2nd option under "Married" covering "Income Method".

How many married people here derive their income from outside of Thailand (with the exception of actual retired people who chose the married visa/extention)?

[Estrada]

I read this confirmation of the new rules, as meaning that they will give you a 3 month extension of stay "Under Consideration", when you apply for your retirement extension. Then after 90 days you have to go back to immigration and they check that you still have no less than the B800K in your bank and then they will give you the balance of 9 months, making 1 year. This is what still needs clarifying. (They were applying this rule for first applications 9 years ago).

Edited February 13, 2019 by Estrada

[Spike1938]

I got my retirement visa in Dec. with more than 800k in bank, No problem.

I am scheduled to apply for extension on Mar. 3. ( Immigration was kind enough to extend to Mar because original visa expired on Jan 3rd. I just applied early in Dec.)

Due to health problems I have had to draw down my account to about 540,000.

Can anyone advise me what documents I need to provide for the extension?