Must Read Holding the balance: Phuket Immigration clarifies new rules on retirement visas to start March 1

[PST]

I was applying for extension based on marriage, not retirement, letter from British embassy was completely dismissed, regardless of all the proof I had to back the letter up. When I told the volunteer, he was shocked, and went straight away to speak to the senior IO, nd came back to me and said that 'within the last 4 or 5 days' a decision had been made to dismiss all letters from the embassy, whether it be for marriage or retirement, he also said ( which I found strange), that anyone who has used the letter since Jan 1st this year, would need to ' re-submit' their applications??

 

 

[Olmate]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The new rules that start on March 1st have nothing to with the income option. The order issued on December 21st states they are still allowed.

Calling 1178 might get some results.

 UJ, the guy was told “the income letter was NOT valid”, nothing about back up proof as an extra? Surely that’s either correct or not . Do the Embassies have any further chance of a say in what is clearly differing from the original assurance they were given that the letters would be honoured for 6 months? Is this the first case a valid letter has been dismissed off hand?

[PST]

2 minutes ago, Olmate said:

 UJ, the guy was told “the income letter was NOT valid”, nothing about back up proof as an extra? Surely that’s either correct or not . Do the Embassies have any further chance of a say in what is clearly differing from the original assurance they were given that the letters would be honoured for 6 months? Is this the first case a valid letter has been dismissed off hand?

I had back up proof, it wasn't taken into consideration. As a side note, the income stated on my letter from the embassy was almost double the amount needed per month to get the letter,,,,,,,no can do, What concerned me, and more so for other people, is that they were aamant that any letters presented to them after 1st Jan were 'invalid'

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, EricTh said:

You do understand that there are more than 100 countries in the world.

 

Do you expect Thai immigration to verify the authenticity of the bank books and the all the different language?

 

Foreign bank statements can be forged , not difficult in this digital age.

 

If you actually read and understood my comments that you quoted, you'd understand that I was suggesting Thai Immigration probably will only want to see THAI bank books and letters as primary proof of monthly income in the absence of an Embassy income letter -- even though the Phuket news report never actually said "Thai" bank stuff... just bank stuff.

[Olmate]

49 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

eh...well and no punch intended but after two decades here I will thought the opposite.....????

Seems not now then, or maybe the letters from accepted embassies will be next cab off this rank? What’s stopping them as all credibility is lost anyway...

[Olmate]

9 minutes ago, PST said:

I had back up proof, it wasn't taken into consideration. As a side note, the income stated on my letter from the embassy was almost double the amount needed per month to get the letter,,,,,,,no can do, What concerned me, and more so for other people, is that they were aamant that any letters presented to them after 1st Jan were 'invalid'

Understood, I wasn,t doubting you, letters not valid is a complete turn around from what’s been published. 

[PST]

2 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Understood, I wasn,t doubting you, letters not valid is a complete turn around from what’s been published. 

And I wasn't doubting you, I would like to hear from anyone who has used the income letter at Phuket within the last 2 weeks, and been granted extension, at least that way it would give some hope to those who are due to apply (extension based on marriage, NOT retirement), but again, it worried me to hear that people who had used the letter after Jan 1st would need to re-submit their applications.

[Olmate]

55 minutes ago, PST said:

And I wasn't doubting you, I would like to hear from anyone who has used the income letter at Phuket within the last 2 weeks, and been granted extension, at least that way it would give some hope to those who are due to apply (extension based on marriage, NOT retirement), but again, it worried me to hear that people who had used the letter after Jan 1st would need to re-submit their applications.

Perhaps a new post, in Phuket forum, may be allowed by mods, or moved but briefly outlining your case, and see what surfaces? I think if your the first which I suspect, this should be highlighted to others who think they are ok ! I also believe it’s a slap in the face to embassies who have effectively been duped

[Janner1]

5 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I would be amazed too if what you said is true. But actually, if you can front up 4-800,000, then you don’t need to show a monthly income of 65,000

That was correct before big joke but I am led to believe this is no longer correct or will not be soon.

 

Maybe that wonderful font of information who has helped so many of us in the past would kindly enlighten us further, Over to you Joe Please.

[merijn]

9 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

merijn. I allow me to ask you if its Immigration in Phuket and the officers at room 103 which take care of retirement extensions who have explained that to you or the populist report in Phuket News? IMO when reading "between the lines" in the Phuket News report it clearly shines through that more than a income letter will be demanded but to write that in a report will of course not be correct after the main Police order either will it be popular.

I have the information from the officers in room 103.

Therefore all information i have is only applicable for Phuket immigration.

 

7 hours ago, PST said:

I was at Phuket immigration earlier this week and they refused my extension (based on marriage) on the basis that the letter of income from the embassy was 'not valid'. I showed them police reports, and the latest statement from the Phuket news that stated otherwise, but to no avail

The IO spoke to a senior IO first before telling me this, I then mentioned it to a volunteer who then went back and spoke to same senior IO (a woman from had yai), and I was told that NO letters from the embassy are being now accepted at Phuket for marriage extension OR retirement

 

I heard today about the issue that the affidavits are not accepted but i don't know exactly why there are refused.

Was your income from a ( government ) pension or normal income / transfers.

Hopefully i get some more information shortly why and or when the (valid) affidavits form the UK, USA, Australia are suddenly not accepted anymore.

[tingtongtourist]

18 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Big Joke,came to Chiang Mai,saw what was going on with immigration there,

and made changes,now they start at 8.00*,and extensions are done very quickly,

90 day I used to always do by post,last 4 reports I did online and works very well,

so only go to immigration office once a year,which is enough for me.

regards Worgeordie                                 *don't close for lunch either.

 

Big Joke will certainly fix the waiting times at C.M.

By getting rid of the agents who dump hundreds of applications at a time and make the queue to be slow.

 

but the waiting time is what many complain about, now some will have a worse problem.

 

kinda ironic isnt it!!

and one thing i noticed about Thailand,

if the farang complain to much

sure, they will fix the problem but when they fix it they like to create a worse problem than the original.

can be a lesson in that

[merijn]

8 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

 

So what happens if the amount dips below 800k within 3 months after getting the visa? Do we have to go to immigration to show our bank balance again? 

 

This is just one ridiculous requirement. Why not make it 5 months before application date. At least, the bank book will show.

 

NO the bank balance after your application will be checked for the next years application.

If you went below the 800K for the first 3 months or 400K for the next 7 months and again 800K for the last 2 months you will "probable" not get the extension next time.

Therefore there is no need to show the bank account during the year but it will affect your next application.

 

[Felt 35]

3 hours ago, merijn said:

I have the information from the officers in room 103.

Therefore all information i have is only applicable for Phuket immigration.

 

Thanks merijn. Cleared things up a bit until one applicant got refused with affidavit as seen in post above????????

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, merijn said:

NO the bank balance after your application will be checked for the next years application.

If you went below the 800K for the first 3 months or 400K for the next 7 months and again 800K for the last 2 months you will "probable" not get the extension next time.

Therefore there is no need to show the bank account during the year but it will affect your next application.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification which immigration didn't make. Hopefully this is the case.

 

 

 

[EricTh]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

 

On its face, that would seem to suggest that they'd accept home country bank books and statements. But given this is Thai Immigration, I seriously doubt that is the case, and instead, just chalk it up to more inaccurate and imprecise reporting by the local media on stuff they really don't understand in the first place.

 

 

I doubt it is home country's bank books and statements. There are more than 100 countries in the world with tens of banks in each country.

 

How are they going to verify and read all the languages? They have trouble understanding English.

 

Bank statements can be forged just like degrees can be forged.

 

 

 

 

 

[EricTh]

18 hours ago, ravip said:

Xenophobic.

This is a very common word that is used in this forum by Westerners to accuse the Thai immigration laws. 

 

 

The problem is that in the past, many people have declared false affidavits to circumvent the financial requirements.

 

Now that immigration has closed the loopholes, they start to complain.

 

I imagine Thailand has the most number of retirees in the world, that's why they can be choosy. 

 

What will be the exodus percentage?

Edited February 19, 2019 by EricTh

[Olmate]

23 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

The problem is that in the past, many people have declared false affidavits to circumvent the financial requirements.

 

Now that immigration has closed the loopholes, they start to complain.

 

I imagine Thailand has the most number of retirees in the world, that's why they can be choosy. 

 

What will be the exodus percentage?

Can u give us any evidence of your claim re affidavits and why if it was so, back up could have been requested, but seldom was. The report from Phuket of yesterday where the valid letter from UK embassy was flat out rejected along with supporting documentation, can be explained how? No one will need to exit if a legit method can be implemented with uniformity across the country. It apparently cannot, I think you know why!

[Felt 35]

46 minutes ago, EricTh said:

The problem is that in the past, many people have declared false affidavits to circumvent the financial requirements

That`s maybe so, but it would be easy for Immigration and the Embassies to coordinate what the embassies demand as proof from the applicant and what the Immigration accept. Thousands of people do not get a affidavit /pension statement without present documentation to their embassy which they again easily can check electronically from home country.

[merijn]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As best as I recall, the Phuket article and such never actually said THAI bank books or bank statements, it just said bank statements and bank books as supporting evidence.

 

On its face, that would seem to suggest that they'd accept home country bank books and statements. But given this is Thai Immigration, I seriously doubt that is the case, and instead, just chalk it up to more inaccurate and imprecise reporting by the local media on stuff they really don't understand in the first place.

 

Thai immigration never talks about foreign bank accounts, As you are in Thailand and apply for a Thai extension only Thai bank accounts are accepted.

Therefore if they make a reference to a bank account it is always a Thai bank account.

[Isaanman]

On 2/17/2019 at 10:30 AM, Huckenfell said:

I am quite happy to go back to my home country every couple of years, can get a free reliable medical check, i think that it is worth it.

 

On 2/18/2019 at 4:39 AM, fouryesrs said:

well sorry maybe I am a slow learner...I usualy apply for the A-O retirement one y. visa in my home country...over here I showed them an account statement that show I have 20000 Euro there plus a bag of other documents but not money related ...it is in a local account and I witdraw in thailand with my atm card  if and when I need it....i dont use a thai bank account...how about my case...???? will i receive that one year visa again...???

 

I just sifted through all 22 pages of this thread(!) ???? and could find only 2 posts related to how this new law affects those of us who plan to request our O-A visa from Thai Embassies in our home country. Are we right in assuming (a terrible thing to do regarding this matter in this country) that this new order does not affect the requirements for getting the 1-year O-A visa from abroad? And, can we assume that, if the new rules do not affect the visa from abroad, then we can still get the additional 1-year on the heels of it as before without having to demonstrate sufficient funds (of any method) in a Thai bank? 

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, Isaanman said:

 

I just sifted through all 22 pages of this thread(!) ???? and could find only 2 posts related to how this new law affects those of us who plan to request our O-A visa from Thai Embassies in our home country. Are we right in assuming (a terrible thing to do regarding this matter in this country) that this new order does not affect the requirements for getting the 1-year O-A visa from abroad? And, can we assume that, if the new rules do not affect the visa from abroad, then we can still get the additional 1-year on the heels of it as before without having to demonstrate sufficient funds (of any method) in a Thai bank? 

The OP title should more accurately state 'retirement extensions'.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Isaanman said:

 

I just sifted through all 22 pages of this thread(!) ???? and could find only 2 posts related to how this new law affects those of us who plan to request our O-A visa from Thai Embassies in our home country. Are we right in assuming (a terrible thing to do regarding this matter in this country) that this new order does not affect the requirements for getting the 1-year O-A visa from abroad? And, can we assume that, if the new rules do not affect the visa from abroad, then we can still get the additional 1-year on the heels of it as before without having to demonstrate sufficient funds (of any method) in a Thai bank? 

It does not affect the OA long stay visa in anyway. Same rules to apply for it at a embassy or official consulate. 

Same for the the last entry from the OA visa.

[merijn]

8 minutes ago, Isaanman said:

 

I just sifted through all 22 pages of this thread(!) ???? and could find only 2 posts related to how this new law affects those of us who plan to request our O-A visa from Thai Embassies in our home country. Are we right in assuming (a terrible thing to do regarding this matter in this country) that this new order does not affect the requirements for getting the 1-year O-A visa from abroad? And, can we assume that, if the new rules do not affect the visa from abroad, then we can still get the additional 1-year on the heels of it as before without having to demonstrate sufficient funds (of any method) in a Thai bank? 

The new financial requirements only affects the 1 year extension applications inside Thailand.

The embassy requirements are not part of this but each embassy can and will have their own interpretation and sometimes additional requirements for the Non-O visa.

But when you do the 1 extension (not the 1 year entry stamp on arrival) inside Thailand afterwards the new requirements will be applicable for you.

Edited February 19, 2019 by merijn

[Isaanman]

To get 2 years + (maybe 2-3 months extra by popping in and out of the country and coming back in on a tourist visa obtained in KL or elsewhere) in the LoS, without having to put anything in a Thai bank (apart from spending money) to validate my income, while keeping most of my money in my US back accounts and paying for the better part of everything over here with my US credit cards--which earn sufficient miles in that time period to get a free round trip ticket to/from from Thailand, seems to be a no brainer for me! [We just got 3 free RT tickets for our family of 4 after only being here for 2 ¾ years.] RT tickets to and from the US are only a cut above $600 right now, anyway. I could easily lose that much in lost interest/bad exchange rates by going the ever-changing route to validate my income. And I do not have to let any money just park and sit for more than the few days it takes to get my visa approved at the Thai Consulate back home! 

 

IMHO this might be a good option for others to consider, even if it involves a bit more paperwork back home. 

[farangx]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

The OP title should more accurately state 'retirement extensions'.

He was referring to O-A visas which he is better checking off checking with the embassy in his home country and not regulations out of an immigration office here.

 

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, farangx said:

He was referring to O-A visas which he is better checking off checking with the embassy in his home country and not regulations out of an immigration office here.

 

I know, but the topic is not about O-A visas, so why he read 22 pages of it I don't grasp.

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, EricTh said:

How are they going to verify and read all the languages?

Not to mention making sense of all the currencies!

[Thailand Outcast]

7 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

The problem is that in the past, many people have declared false affidavits to circumvent the financial requirements.

 

Now that immigration has closed the loopholes, they start to complain.

 

I imagine Thailand has the most number of retirees in the world, that's why they can be choosy. 

 

What will be the exodus percentage?

Yes.  It is true.  Many people lied to get the letter.  Or many people recycle their money each month.  Most of these people paid their bills and do no crime here and not work illegal here.  But if an older person like to live in essan and make a house there, he not need 65k a month.  Many people can live here with less than 65k.  The Thai government make it 65k to get money into their banking system every month from millions of retired foreigners here.  I did not lie, I have more than 65k monthly income, but I think many did.

 

What if they say you need 90k a month to live on?  They know 90k is the lifestyle of a Thai who make big salary, but that does not mean you really need 90k to live here.  The same many do not really need 65k to live here if you are happy to live average lifestyle. I think many will leave and many will overstay but a lot of people do not think this.  

 

 

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, Thailand Outcast said:

Yes.  It is true.  Many people lied to get the letter.  Or many people recycle their money each month.  Most of these people paid their bills and do no crime here and not work illegal here.  But if an older person like to live in essan and make a house there, he not need 65k a month.  Many people can live here with less than 65k.  The Thai government make it 65k to get money into their banking system every month from millions of retired foreigners here.  I did not lie, I have more than 65k monthly income, but I think many did.

 

What if they say you need 90k a month to live on?  They know 90k is the lifestyle of a Thai who make big salary, but that does not mean you really need 90k to live here.  The same many do not really need 65k to live here if you are happy to live average lifestyle. I think many will leave and many will overstay but a lot of people do not think this.  

 

Immigration have closed the loophole on 800k but they still haven't closed loophole on 65k per month.

 

Somebody can just transfer 65k into the country, then transfer back into their country.

[Isaanman]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I know, but the topic is not about O-A visas, so why he read 22 pages of it I don't grasp.

I read them all because I wanted to understand the new rules and how this will affect my request for an O-A extension after the two years. I, like many, got the notarized affidavit from the US embassy last year to extend my O-A visa and, like everyone who used to do that, will not be able to do that again. If the new rules do not affect obtaining said visa from the US, then I will not have to deal with all this until the 2nd year. Nevertheless, I wanted to make sure my plan to obtain the O-A back home had not been messed up (like some who thought IOs would honor the 6-month transition period for affidavits from their respective embassies in BKK and were rudely surprised!) and, like everyone else, I wanted clarity related to future extensions; one year passes by very quickly! Who knows what the rules will be then! Others had asked a legitimate question and no one chimed in. I am quite sure I am not the only one that has it.