My Experience Extending my Retirement "Visa" last Friday.

[sfokevin]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

They can ask for supporting documents at any time, as was the case with 'affidavits' and 'stat decs' previously.

They can also ring the bank when in doubt of the source of transfer.

How does one politely say “ring the bank” in Thai?... 

Edited February 25, 2019 by sfokevin

[steve73]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

Same with me using TransferWise. Oct and Nov went to Bangkok Bank, then bang! December's went to TMB. This means that I'll be kicked back at immigration for not having 12 months proof of international transfers under the present rules. Luckily I'm in a position to transfer the 400,000 in time for the seasoning of my marriage extension. 

I would suggest you keep going with the TW deposits.. but in the meantime ask your bank for a statements of International deposits "suitable for Immigration", and if it doesn't include the December payment then challenge the bank using the TW receipt as evidence, and see if they can reissue it... although it might take a few weeks to work it's way through their systems and procedures.

It may shake up the banks procedures.. 

 

I'd certainly be interested in what your bank statement says, and if it can be resolved.  If it fails, you at least have a fall-back procedure... I'm sure many will not.   

[CharlieH]

non-english gibberish removed.

[Wake Up]

23 hours ago, steve73 said:

Kasikorn

Informative original post information. I opened an  additional 12 month account at Bangkok Bank by transferring 800 k from my original Bangkok Bank account. Bangkok Bank did not require me to get a certificate of residency because I transferred money from one Bangkok account to a new 12 month Bangkok Bank account. Maybe I got lucky or maybe the bank officers are flexible. I did need my passport and to fill out a new W-9 form for the USA government for opening the new account. 

[Sheryl]

As mentioned eldewhere get the "Credit Advice" for each transfer as it arrives. Then show these, which are the Bank's own document, to them if there are any issues. That will carry a weight TW documents will not.

I am assuming a Credit Advice on a TW deposit through another Thai bank will show the international point of origin....but this does need to be verified by someone.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[surinaussie]

hi Steve, many thanks for this post.

 

I wish to clarify two points; this new system has already started? Is that correct?

 

My second point is about the money being internationally transferred. I gather from your post, all the Immigration police are after is confirmation of monthly transfers totaling 65k?

[Tanoshi]

24 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I am assuming a Credit Advice on a TW deposit through another Thai bank will show the international point of origin....but this does need to be verified by someone.

Yes, but getting hold of that credit advice isn't as straightforward as it may seem.

[Tanoshi]

23 minutes ago, surinaussie said:

hi Steve, many thanks for this post.

 

I wish to clarify two points; this new system has already started? Is that correct?

 

My second point is about the money being internationally transferred. I gather from your post, all the Immigration police are after is confirmation of monthly transfers totaling 65k?

1. Effective from December 21st 2018. (Income)

 

2.That is up to the IO.

The order reads;

Evidence showing pension - a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank statements showing money transfers from overseas every month for the past 12 months

Edited February 25, 2019 by Tanoshi

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

If mid year you would like to move your 800k from one Thai bank to another - To say get a better interest rate... Would that be possible?... 

IMHO as long as you can show the cash being withdrawn/transferred and on the same day being deposited in another bank it will be acceptable.

 

People have had problems with an account in the same bank finishing and a new one with the same amount in the same bank with a different account number starting on the same day.

 

So I would not advise anyone that any change of account will be OK.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

From what I was advised in the case of a discrepancy where the funds originated the IO will simply call the bank to confirm it was from overseas.

I doubt that most immigration officers will bother to do that, if your documentation isn't clear I guess most will just refuse your extension.

[Tanoshi]

23 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I doubt that most immigration officers will bother to do that, if your documentation isn't clear I guess most will just refuse your extension.

Until they get accustomed to some of the codes, they have little choice.

Overseas transfers don't all state 'International'.

[Tanoshi]

35 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

People have had problems with an account in the same bank finishing and a new one with the same amount in the same bank with a different account number starting on the same day.

 

So I would not advise anyone that any change of account will be OK.

I gave an opinion, if they want a definitive answer they'd need to ask their own IO.

[Sheryl]

Yes, but getting hold of that credit advice isn't as straightforward as it may seem.

If requested within a few days if the arrival of the transfer should be no problem.

I just got one last week, walked into what wasnt even my branch. Issued on the spot, no problem. Free.

If older then it does get more involved and have to go through the bank HQ.

Not just me, many other posters report getting these easily.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sunnyboy2018]

This post does nor address the 64 million dollar question.  Is it possible to avoid all the above and just use an agent to temporarily put money in your account.  My agent told me nothing had changed but a companion yesterday told me other wise.   Anybody use the Agent  option recently?

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

If requested within a few days if the arrival of the transfer should be no problem.

I just got one last week, walked into what wasnt even my branch. Issued on the spot, no problem. Free.

If older then it does get more involved and have to go through the bank HQ.

Not just me, many other posters report getting these easily.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Same bank, different branch.

 

Try getting one from KK when you don't have an account with them, but they were used as an intermediary to deposit the funds in your BKK account.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

This post does nor address the 64 million dollar question.  Is it possible to avoid all the above and just use an agent to temporarily put money in your account.  My agent told me nothing had changed but a companion yesterday told me other wise.   Anybody use the Agent  option recently?

800K for 6 months, then 400K for another 6 months!

More than likely forged bank statements.

[sometimewoodworker]

38 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Until they get accustomed to some of the codes, they have little choice.

Overseas transfers don't all state 'International'.

You clearly live in an alternate Thailand to the one most of us inhabit. 

 

In the Thailand that I live in it is your job to provide all documents the IO wants, in this case clear proof of transfers from overseas. It certanly isn't the IO's responsibility to check with the bank for you.

 

So they will in all probability tell you to provide the proof they want in the way they want it if you want an extension.

[Obiwon]

4 hours ago, skatewash said:

Depends on a variety of factors.  If the Immigration Officer on the day is checking for evidence of an overseas source of deposit.  If whatever is reported in your bank statement or passbook supports the overseas nature of the deposit.  

 

TransferWise makes no guarantee whatsoever what the partner banks in Thailand (Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn, and TMB) will code your transfer.  Could be something like FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer for Bangkok Bank) or it could be something indicating a domestic bank transfer.  Even having a Bangkok Bank account is no guarantee that it will be coded as FTT, although some seem to believe it is.

Just checked with my bank, all my monthly international deposits via Transfer wise are showing a local TMB deposit code. I will now only have maybe 3 months of deposits using normal international bank transfers prior to renewal of retirement visa 8 May. Will 3 months show adequate proof of pension income for BKK immigration this time around, being that this is new process?

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You clearly live in an alternate Thailand to the one most of us inhabit. 

 

In the Thailand that I live in it is your job to provide all documents the IO wants, in this case clear proof of transfers from overseas. It certanly isn't the IO's responsibility to check with the bank for you.

 

So they will in all probability tell you to provide the proof they want in the way they want it if you want an extension.

I'm dealing with fact.

If Immigration want to see 'International transfer' on statements they'll need to speak to the bank.

There are many legitimate methods of transferring funds from overseas and these methods are coded by the banks.

 

I witnessed first hand them checking one such code with BKK last week.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, Obiwon said:

Just checked with my bank, all my monthly international deposits via Transfer wise are showing a local TMB deposit code. I will now only have maybe 3 months of deposits using normal international bank transfers prior to renewal of retirement visa 8 May. Will 3 months show adequate proof of pension income for BKK immigration this time around, being that this is new process?

What's your bank?

[fittobethaied]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:00 PM, allane said:

The developing consensus on here seems to be that it remains as before; 2+3 for first-time applications, 3+3for renewals.

The important question is...what is meant by a first-time application?  Are they referring to the first time that one seeks an extension of stay based on Retirement using the 800T in the bank method? (Example: someone has previously extended his stay for 10 straight years using the Marriage method but now wants to use the Retirement method), Or, do they mean the first application for an extension of stay on the basis of Retirement after having entered the country on a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa, and after staying one year it's time for a first-time application for an extension of stay? There's a big difference in those two interpretations. Anybody have any insight on this?

Edited February 25, 2019 by fittobethaied

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

The important question is...what is meant by a first-time application?  Are they referring to the first time that one seeks an extension of stay using the 800T in the bank, or do they mean the first application for an extension of stay after entering the country on a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa? There's a big difference in those two interpretations. Anybody have any insight on this?

Same as applying with a 90 entry from a non-o for the first extension of stay. Just 800k baht in the bank for 2 months on the date you apply for the extension of stay.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

The important question is...what is meant by a first-time application?  Are they referring to the first time that one seeks an extension of stay using the 800T in the bank, or do they mean the first application for an extension of stay after entering the country on a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa? There's a big difference in those two interpretations. Anybody have any insight on this?

The second.

First application for an extension from a Non Imm O.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Tanoshi

[steve73]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

1. Effective from December 21st 2018. (Income)

 

2.That is up to the IO.

The order reads;

Evidence showing pension - a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank statements showing money transfers from overseas every month for the past 12 months 

 

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

  2 hours ago, surinaussie said:

hi Steve, many thanks for this post.

 

I wish to clarify two points; this new system has already started? Is that correct?

 

My second point is about the money being internationally transferred. I gather from your post, all the Immigration police are after is confirmation of monthly transfers totaling 65k?

Just to clarify Tanoshi's reply.

1.  I didn't really ask about interim measures for the income method, as I would have been doing it for full year from just having received my extension.  For savings the order was from 1st Mar, but they are already applying.  i.e. I will have to keep the 800k/400k/800k for the next 3/6/3 months to get my next extension.

2.  Correct - if you're from one of the fab4 countries.  They want to see confirmation of 65k minimum transfer from overseas into your Thai bank - evidenced by a bank statement, (and I understood - showing only these incoming transactions).  I specifically told them I am not in receipt of any pension as yet, I am merely running down savings and investment can could not show any official "proof" of this, and this was fine. 

[skatewash]

18 minutes ago, Obiwon said:

Just checked with my bank, all my monthly international deposits via Transfer wise are showing a local TMB deposit code. I will now only have maybe 3 months of deposits using normal international bank transfers prior to renewal of retirement visa 8 May. Will 3 months show adequate proof of pension income for BKK immigration this time around, being that this is new process?

A few things that might help.  What does your TW receipt show?  I'm not suggesting that it be shown to immigration but rather it may help you to understand the path your money took to TMB.  Can you get a credit advice from TMB, this may again show what path your money took to your TMB account.  Also, it's been suggested by some that there may be a difference between what gets printed in your passbook, a bank statement from your local TMB bank, and a bank statement from the headquarters of your TMB bank.  The idea being that each of these documents may show more information, some indication that it really was sourced overseas.  Supposedly you should be able to ask your bank for a copy of your monthly international transfers.  Having the TW receipt and TMB credit advice may allow you to make the case to TMB when they produce your statement to include the "international" transfers that may not be marked as international in some of the TMB documentation.  These are all efforts at getting your international deposits recognized as being international.

 

Will three months be enough?  No one really knows.  Up to your immigration officer.  They are supposed to understand that this process only started recently and therefore you could under the best circumstances only have about 4 or so transfers for your May application for extension of stay. if you used a different method in the past.  On top of that, they have been instructed by one of the memos from the Immigration Head Office to show leniency to people in your position.

 

 

[sletraveler]

On 2/24/2019 at 2:57 PM, Pib said:

If you are using "ACH" transfer from Chase Bank  to Bangkok Bank you will no longer be able to use that method beginning 1 Apr 19 unless Chase uses ACH "IAT" format---and it highly, highly doubtful they use IAT format.  Now if you are using SWIFT then that will continue to work.  

The transfer into Thai bank must be direct from pension as in my case Social security?  Egads I thought it was sufficient to just make a monthly deposit.  In that case then I would need to transfer the extra back to a US bank.   What crap.  

[steve73]

38 minutes ago, Obiwon said:

Just checked with my bank, all my monthly international deposits via Transfer wise are showing a local TMB deposit code. I will now only have maybe 3 months of deposits using normal international bank transfers prior to renewal of retirement visa 8 May. Will 3 months show adequate proof of pension income for BKK immigration this time around, being that this is new process?

You could show your bank your TW receipts.  They MAY be able to follow the trial back and re-code.  But Sheryl has said they can perhaps only check back for a short period. Alternatively take a printed statement to your I/O now and ask them if this is satisfactory for what they require.

 

Skatewash's reply explains much better than my feeble attempt...(which I did not previously see) 

Edited February 25, 2019 by steve73

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, sletraveler said:

The transfer into Thai bank must be direct from pension as in my case Social security?  Egads I thought it was sufficient to just make a monthly deposit.  In that case then I would need to transfer the extra back to a US bank.   What crap.  

No, it does not need to be directly deposited from your pension into a Thai bank.  What you quoted is referring to the situation in which some are having their pension deposited directly into a Thai bank, even though this is not a requirement (I guess it's more of a convenience for them).  Many will continue to do so, some may experience problems due to a change in enforcement by the US government regarding rules for transferring money outside the US.

 

Bottom line, if you are doing your own transfer from a US bank to a Thai bank you are unaffected by the change being discussed in your quote.  However, if you are using Bangkok Bank's NY Branch to handle your transfer from the US to Bangkok Bank in Thailand then you may be affected beginning in April 2019 by this so called IAT requirement.

[Tanoshi]

23 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Just to clarify Tanoshi's reply.

1.  I didn't really ask about interim measures for the income method, as I would have been doing it for full year from just having received my extension.  For savings the order was from 1st Mar, but they are already applying.  i.e. I will have to keep the 800k/400k/800k for the next 3/6/3 months to get my next extension. 

2.  Correct - if you're from one of the fab4 countries.  They want to see confirmation of 65k minimum transfer from overseas into your Thai bank - evidenced by a bank statement, (and I understood - showing only these incoming transactions).  I specifically told them I am not in receipt of any pension as yet, I am merely running down savings and investment can could not show any official "proof" of this, and this was fine. 

My reply to @surinaussie purely related to the income method he asked about.

The amendment to income methods became effective 21st December 2018.

 

The change in funds methods becomes effective March 1st 2019.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Same bank, different branch.

 

Try getting one from KK when you don't have an account with them, but they were used as an intermediary to deposit the funds in your BKK account.

That, I can well believe. Normally one would get the Credit Advice from the bank the funds ultimately came through, where you had an account.

 

I don't know that they re even created/issued at intermediate steps in the transfer process. 

 

Did the Credit Advice from the other account not show the detail needed?