What to use to re-seal ceramic tiles and granite?

[Sheryl]

Due to using harsh cleansers in effort to get out water stains, bathroom floor tiles have lost their glaze. i am regrouting anyhow so a perfect time to put on a sealant but I can't find a local product specific to that purpose. What ca/should I use?

 

Also have a few spots on my granite kitchen counters where I inadvertently took off the finish using a very acidic cleanser (my bad). What can I get locally to cover these spots? I have so far tried clear nail varnish and Black Diamond Granigte Plus 2-in-1 cleaner and sealant. Both to no avail..

[fredob43]

You don't say what cleanser you used but it must have been very powerful to take the glass coating off. Suggest you just re-grout and let it be. In my many years of tiling I have never had to use a sealer on normal tiles never seen the glass coating come off. Saying that have on ceramic prior to grouting (EG,That's the type that they make flower pots out of) As they are porous and will soak up the grout and stain and discolour. N/B they have to be coated/sealed after grouting as well. The sealer used for that is an oil based one can be thinned down with thinners.

Saying all of the above most sealers will only give a very thin covering and will more than likely come off after a few showers anyway the only way to get a great finish is to re-tile.

 

Re Granite work tops. This isn't the first time peeps have had problems with those here in Thailand. I don't know why as true Granite NEVER marks. MARBLE will. I have G/tiles on my driveway, even after several years of having them laid and driving a big Car and M/C over them several time a day there are no marks at all not even a small scratch.  Not a great snap but it's the same Chinese Granite that I have on my work tops albeit the work tops are thicker. Not a mark anywhere on those either. And I do miss-treat them. Most days I put boiling pans directly on them, even use a sharp knife, the only thing that happens is that it blunts the knife and cools the pans down.

 

What the Buddha they use here saying it's granite I don't know. But it's sure as eggs are eggs isn't Granite. 

 

Snap can be enlarged by clicking on it.

Edited February 24, 2019 by fredob43

[Sheryl]

It is Granite and it's not marked. Just the clear top finish came off on a few spots. The stone itself is unaffected. It is the clear finish that I need to redo on just a few patches.

 

Re the floor tiles, if I were to put in a sealant what would I use? Acrylic? Other? No way am I going to retile. Just want some shine back.

[fredob43]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It is Granite and it's not marked. Just the clear top finish came off on a few spots. The stone itself is unaffected. It is the clear finish that I need to redo on just a few patches.

 

Re the floor tiles, if I were to put in a sealant what would I use? Acrylic? Other? No way am I going to retile. Just want some shine back.

Sheryl.

If you had seen ceramic tile made you would find that first they make the biscuit base fire it, then add the colour and put on a form of Glass powder it is then baked again, giving it it's finish. That's why I asked what sort of cleaner you used as the only thing that will take the glass finish off is heavy wear or a sort of sand paper/grit. Once gone it's buggered. Bit like paint on a car. Nothing will/can put it back again. You will just be wasting your time and monies.

 

Granite doesn't need a clear top finish it's cut then polished with different grades of grinding paste till it finish's up with it's shine. No clear coat is added. But they do do it in Thailand it seems that why peeps are getting problems.

 

There has been several posts on TVF about clear coats coming off before. I cant understand this as Granite doesn't need it or should have it. Marble yes as it's porous. And not suitable for work tops or any other form of heavy wear situations floors ect.

 

You can go watch it being cut and finished at the Modern BKK granite comp: just north of Tak town on the way from BKK to Chiang Mai. I'm sure that there are other places. They start off with around a 3mt square block cut the thickness they want with a diamond covered water cooled band this take a day or two to cut through it, then it's put onto a bench and  different grades of grit are put on till it's become the finished product.

 

Have been there on several occasions and watched it being done. And never have I seen them putting a clear coat finish on it. As I have said in my last post I have granite tiles on my driveway, how long do you think a clear coat would last on that driving a 2 ton+ limo over it every day.

 

Conclusion I don't know what type of so called Granite you have for your work tops, but as far as I'm concerned it's not any type of Granite I know of. 

Best of luck with getting it sorted might be a good idea to get the suppliers to sort it out. They might be able to put another clear coat on it but it's not a thing you can do yourself I would have thought.

 

Bit long and sorry not much help I know, just a bit of info.

 

  

Edited February 25, 2019 by fredob43

[steve187]

as above, granite should be buffed/polished to a gloss finish, if there are marks it just need repolishing/buffing, as to the floor tiles nothing will put a shine back, years ago when laying quarry tiles we used to put a shine on them with linseed oil, that made them look wet, today there are sealers for porous tiles, but glazed tiles are just that glazed. a photo or 2 would help. LTP have a full range of tile sealants.

[fredob43]

33 minutes ago, steve187 said:

as above, granite should be buffed/polished to a gloss finish, if there are marks it just need repolishing/buffing, as to the floor tiles nothing will put a shine back, years ago when laying quarry tiles we used to put a shine on them with linseed oil, that made them look wet, today there are sealers for porous tiles, but glazed tiles are just that glazed. a photo or 2 would help. LTP have a full range of tile sealants.

Correct. Sorry mine was a bit long winded. You are right about Quarry tiles or any other biscuit type tile. They still use a form of oil based sealer that should be put on neat prior to grouting and thinned with a thinners for second coat. Don't have to do the above for quarry tiles now as they are not porous unless you want as you have said a shinny finish. Can also use a wax floor polish on Q/Tiles using a buffer, but a lot more work.

 

Can also use the oil base sealer for a nice finish on slate tiles. Brings the colour out.

Edited February 25, 2019 by fredob43

[Sheryl]

Thanks. I have no idea what an "oil based sealer" would be. Can you tell me a local brand?

 

Here are pix though the granite countertop flaw doesn't show very clearly. There are no scratchs or marks, just a bare spot where the hard clear coating -- of which, needed or not, there definitely is one -- came off. Look at the dead center of the pix, you will see it looks lighter. The floor tile pix is from the worst area and you can see the coating is stripped off.

 

Countertop (as mentioned, does nto show on the pix well. It is the dead center area and it is more noticeable in real life as  being lighter in color and lacking the hard gloss finish that the rest of it has)

 

 

 

 

Bathroom floor tile (here it actually looks woirse i nthe pix than in reality.)

 

 

 

 

 

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Thanks. I have no idea what an "oil based sealer" would be. Can you tell me a local brand?

 

Here are pix though the granite countertop flaw doesn't show very clearly. There are no scratchs or marks, just a bare spot where the hard clear coating -- of which, needed or not, there definitely is one -- came off. Look at the dead center of the pix, you will see it looks lighter. The floor tile pix is from the worst area and you can see the coating is stripped off.

 

Countertop (as mentioned, does nto show on the pix well. It is the dead center area and it is more noticeable in real life as  being lighter in color and lacking the hard gloss finish that the rest of it has)

 

 

 

 

Bathroom floor tile (here it actually looks woirse i nthe pix than in reality.)

 

 

 

 

 

You cant use an oil based sealer on glazed tiles as it won't adhere as they are not porous, it'll just sit on top till it dries. Maybe days, then it'll just come off after a few showers.

 

Sorry haven't a clue what type of Granite you have as it doesn't come out to well on the snap. Doesn't look like granite to me but I'm here to learn.

 

Have just put in a quick snap of my patio, in need of a good clean (wife has been away and I don't do house work) but you can see some gloss even so. No sealer anywhere. Just the natural finish. It's been down longer than the G/Tiles on the driveway estimate 10 years, drive 8/9 Without a mark. Walked on every day several times as it's the main entrance into the house.

Edited February 25, 2019 by fredob43

[VocalNeal]

Sheryl can you feel any edge on your counter top where the <whatever> has been removed damaged etc.

 

I'm thinking the aggressive cleaner you used etched the surface, that's all. Try polishing a small section with some car polish. One can even polish clear plastic with that.

 

The tiles? Sorry don't know. I may be able to dig up a contact for the owner of Empire Granite but how much help he would be I do not know.

[fredob43]

46 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

You cant use an oil based sealer on glazed tiles as it won't adhere as they are not porous, it'll just sit on top till it dries. Maybe days, then it'll just come off after a few showers.

 

Sorry haven't a clue what type of Granite you have as it doesn't come out to well on the snap. Doesn't look like granite to me but I'm here to learn.

 

Have just put in a quick snap of my patio, in need of a good clean (wife has been away and I don't do house work) but you can see some gloss even so. No sealer anywhere. Just the natural finish. It's been down longer than the G/Tiles on the driveway estimate 10 years, drive 8/9 Without a mark. Walked on every day several times as it's the main entrance into the house.

Sheryl.

Are you sure it's Granite and not Marble? they do look similar to the untrained eye, if it is that's why it's been sealed. Just a thought.

 

Snap of my marble table wish I had never brought it as it marks big time. Now we never use it last time was the Christmas before last. Had to put a thick cover over it then, just in case.

Edited February 25, 2019 by fredob43

[Sheryl]

It's granite and does not scratch in the least, takes a lot of abuse.

Yes, can feel with fingers where the gloss finish was worn off. Feels sort of like the difference between a fingernail with and without nail polish on it.

Polish or wax won't work as it is the area immediately around the sink, gets sponged off several times a day. Needs to be something more permanrnt. I tried clear nail varnish but didn't do the trick.

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[johng]

[sometimewoodworker]

13 hours ago, fredob43 said:

Granite doesn't need a clear top finish it's cut then polished with different grades of grinding paste till it finish's up with it's shine. No clear coat is added. But they do do it in Thailand it seems that why peeps are getting problems.

There are different qualities of granite with different degrees of porosity. it is usual and essential to use a sealer on work surfaces. amazon Granite sealer also easy to find on Lazada

 

Quote

Granite is a naturally porous stone, though it’s not as porous as some other types of natural stone like marble. This means granite has tiny crevices or holes that allow air and water into the stone. When a surface is nonporous, such as stainless steel, it cannot absorb anything at all. However, this doesn’t mean granite acts as a sponge. Granite won’t absorb much liquid and it’s unlikely to harbor bacteria. When the granite is sealed, it’s less porous and easier to keep clean and sanitary.

It is common, though dangerous with wet feet, to have a polished, un sealed, surface on floors. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[steve187]

the best way would be to get some granite guys in to polish up the worktop, ever finer pads are used until there is a smooth shiny surface left, polish is not left behind its just used as an abrasive compound, nothing like spraying mr sheen and then dusting off, the floor tiles well they have had it, have it overtiled with some good thin bed adhesive, or just put up with it, the top glaze has gone and you are down or nearly down to the 'biscuit'

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are different qualities of granite with different degrees of porosity. it is usual and essential to use a sealer on work surfaces. amazon Granite sealer also easy to find on Lazada

 

It is common, though dangerous with wet feet, to have a polished, un sealed, surface on floors. 

I have been working on Granite, Marble, as well as ceramic tiles, for many years and Never have I seen or had to use a sealer on Granite. Some types of Marble and ceramic yes but it's rear. Just defeats the object of using Granite in the first place. Just look at above post by Johng. Maybe I'm wrong but can you point out where he puts the sealer on the Granite once polished. Like the rest of us have done in the past we just use finer and finer abrasive, In his case pads till the polish comes back.

 

I do know that Thailand does produce it's own type of Granite but that should never be used for work tops not hard enough. More like Marble. Learnt that from the Modern BKK granite company in Tak. Must say I didn't know that before.

Edited February 25, 2019 by fredob43

[impulse]

6 hours ago, fredob43 said:

Snap of my marble table wish I had never brought it as it marks big time. Now we never use it last time was the Christmas before last. Had to put a thick cover over it then, just in case.

 

If ever there was an application for a round chunk of edge-polished glass, it's your table.  The grain is gorgeous.  You just need to have it protected from stains by a nice thick piece of glass, cut to size.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

10 hours ago, fredob43 said:

I have been working on Granite, Marble, as well as ceramic tiles, for many years and Never have I seen or had to use a sealer on Granite. Some types of Marble and ceramic yes but it's rear. Just defeats the object of using Granite in the first place. Just look at above post by Johng. Maybe I'm wrong but can you point out where he puts the sealer on the Granite once polished. Like the rest of us have done in the past we just use finer and finer abrasive, In his case pads till the polish comes back.

 

That video is irrelevant as it's just talking about polishing out a scratch not about using the counter top.

Need for sealing a counter/work top

A polished granite top is still porous and will stain if you put the wrong stuff on it..

 

if you are doing flooring you probably haven't sealed it but it can still stain.

 

[steve187]

testing  to see if worktops need sealing - 

Perform The Lemon Juice and Oil Test

1. Line up all your samples in row.
2. Drip enough lemon juice to form a dime-sized puddle on the first sample.
3. Do the same with vegetable/olive oil.
4. Look at the surface of the stone through the puddles and note the time.
5. If you see the surface under the puddles darken right away, this stone is very absorbent and should NOT be used in the kitchen.
6. If the stone does darken, but it takes 4 or 5 minutes, then applying a granite sealer will make this stone manageable in the kitchen... it'll be reasonably stain resistant.
7. If it takes 10 to 15 minutes to darken a sealer should still be applied, but make sure it absorbs well and doesn't dry on top.
8. If the stone never darkens or it takes 30 minutes or more, then you have a near stain-proof winner that probably would not take a sealer even if you tried.
9. Wipe the sample clean and look at the spot where the lemon juice was... is it dull compared to the shiny polish on the rest of the sample or did you notice the lemon juice fizzing/bubbling when on the surface? If so, it contains calcite and should not be used in the kitchen.
10. Perform the same test procedure on each of your samples.

 

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That video is irrelevant as it's just talking about polishing out a scratch not about using the counter top.

Need for sealing a counter/work top

A polished granite top is still porous and will stain if you put the wrong stuff on it..

 

if you are doing flooring you probably haven't sealed it but it can still stain.

 

I said how come he never sealed it after polishing. Why because it doesn't need to be sealed.

 

Ok I'll put my hands up I know nothing my 25 years + of owning a Granite company in the UK is irrelevant. Granite is porous. And has to be sealed twice a year. How come then that my Thai wife cuts limes puts oil on it to make Thai cakes and our Kitchen tops never mark. Oh and it's never been sealed, nor likely to ever be done. They are some 7 year old now and not a mark anywhere. Not going down the road of having them on my drive way.

 

Little tip if you use any product on a counter top that's porous it will hold germs and shouldn't be used in the first place. One of the reasons you have to use epoxy grout on a Tiled w/top. Normal grout will hold germs. And can KILL you.

 

My last word on this subject I bow to everyone's superior knowledge.  

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

testing  to see if worktops need sealing - 

Perform The Lemon Juice and Oil Test

1. Line up all your samples in row.
2. Drip enough lemon juice to form a dime-sized puddle on the first sample.
3. Do the same with vegetable/olive oil.
4. Look at the surface of the stone through the puddles and note the time.
5. If you see the surface under the puddles darken right away, this stone is very absorbent and should NOT be used in the kitchen.
6. If the stone does darken, but it takes 4 or 5 minutes, then applying a granite sealer will make this stone manageable in the kitchen... it'll be reasonably stain resistant.
7. If it takes 10 to 15 minutes to darken a sealer should still be applied, but make sure it absorbs well and doesn't dry on top.
8. If the stone never darkens or it takes 30 minutes or more, then you have a near stain-proof winner that probably would not take a sealer even if you tried.
9. Wipe the sample clean and look at the spot where the lemon juice was... is it dull compared to the shiny polish on the rest of the sample or did you notice the lemon juice fizzing/bubbling when on the surface? If so, it contains calcite and should not be used in the kitchen.
10. Perform the same test procedure on each of your samples.

 

Good No GREAT post. Read and digest.

Thank Buddha that some other person knows what I'm talking about. Conclusion if it's not fit for the job don't use it. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by fredob43

[Sheryl]

As mentioned my countertop definitely has sealant and except fo 3 tiny spots it's intact. So whether sealant was necessary is for me unimportant at this stage. I have it, and I'm happy with it but need to reapply it to a few bare patches.

[mention=44962]sometimewoodworker[/mention], that product is indeed what I am looking for but I don't find it on Lazada. Do you have a link? Or name of any local product? The only things I can find on Lazada are 2 in 1 cleaner/ sealer (tried it -- useless) and something called P & P Sealer writing all in Thai so no idea if suitable for granite or not.

 

Re the floor tiles: the damaged tiles are in area behind and to the side of toilet so do not get wet during showers, just subject to damp mopping. I am not up for retiling the whole floor and would settle for something that just improves their appearance a little. Doesn't matter if it makes them slippery as not in walking path. Any ideas? I don't think I can replace just those tiles as getting them out would entail a lot if damage.

 

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[DepDavid]

As mentioned my countertop definitely has sealant and except fo 3 tiny spots it's intact. So whether sealant was necessary is for me unimportant at this stage. I have it, and I'm happy with it but need to reapply it to a few bare patches.
[mention=44962]sometimewoodworker[/mention], that product is indeed what I am looking for but I don't find it on Lazada. Do you have a link? Or name of any local product? The only things I can find on Lazada are 2 in 1 cleaner/ sealer (tried it -- useless) and something called P & P Sealer writing all in Thai so no idea if suitable for granite or not.
 
Re the floor tiles: the damaged tiles are in area behind and to the side of toilet so do not get wet during showers, just subject to damp mopping. I am not up for retiling the whole floor and would settle for something that just improves their appearance a little. Doesn't matter if it makes them slippery as not in walking path. Any ideas? I don't think I can replace just those tiles as getting them out would entail a lot if damage.
 
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Global house sells a water base sealer that I use on my terra-cotta floors. It is fairly high gloss. Since the floor area is not a high traffic area maybe this will do the trick. I mix it 50/50 with water and apply with a sponge. It is sort of like a watered down version of Elmer’s glue.

For my counter top which I made from cement I used Jotun floor sealer. See the display in global house and get the one designed for heavy traffic floor. I know my worktop is far different from yours but maybe you can try a bit on a hidden area and see if it sticks well enough.


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[DepDavid]

Global house sells a water base sealer that I use on my terra-cotta floors. It is fairly high gloss. Since the floor area is not a high traffic area maybe this will do the trick. I mix it 50/50 with water and apply with a sponge. It is sort of like a watered down version of Elmer’s glue.

For my counter top which I made from cement I used Jotun floor sealer. See the display in global house and get the one designed for heavy traffic floor. I know my worktop is far different from yours but maybe you can try a bit on a hidden area and see if it sticks well enough.


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I found a bottle of the floor sealer I used. It is called A-100 plus. It is in a white half gallon plastic jug with orange labels. Hope this helps.

For the kitchen it may be worth asking a granite installer to come have a look. They should have the tools to re-polish the top if that can be done.


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[melvinmelvin]

If the counter top in question is real granite (and not some cheaper and softer stone marketed as granite)

I do understand the talk about sealing.

Have had proper granite in my home for many years, have never ever heard about sealing granite.

As for cleaning, warm water and mild soap should suffice.

 

Beefing up the lost gloss, sure, but it is a boring and tedious process.

Requires lots of very fine grinding and polishing.

You could try on a small spot, very fine sandpaper (waterproof). 800 paper - 1000  paper - 1200 paper

and try with very coarse tooth paste, the stuff you rub down cars and GRP with,

the paste dentists are using for polishing up your teeth, or the paste mechanics are using for fixing up

intake and exhaust valves.

Or by all means, if there is a workshop in the vicinity that works with cutting and polishing of granite,

the should know what to do and have the right stuff.

I don't think you can fix up just the non glossy spots, that would likely look odd.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

talkin about cleaning,

 

the soap I am using is made from fat and kalium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide

fantastic soap for stones and wooden surfaces, walls floors, and wooden furniture

the soap is pure nature, you could drink it, would probably give you the shits though,

harmless but cleans very very well

 

I have given a few bottles to builders of wooden houses and boat builders in Nonthaburi,

they are in awe over that soap.

 

It is called Grønnsåpe in Norwegian, hundreds of years old, Green soap,

it was slightly green before, due to some juice from hamp/cannabis being used,

when cannabis became illegal, the soap turned slightly yellow.

 

No additives/perfurme, clean stuff. All hospitals in Norway stock this,

used on heavily damaged skin, severe and deep burns and open wounds.

 

Don't know if it, or similar is available in Thailand.

 

 

[Sheryl]

I don't think polishing will work as there is definitely a gloss sealant on and the tiny patches where the gloss was eroded off are fractionally lower in height than the rest. Polishing them down, even if I could manage it for such small spots, would just increase the difference. I need to add a gloss layer to those spots.. Will try the preparations recommended and report back.

 

The stone, whatever it is, it is not soft. But it definitely came with hard shiny gloss on the top surface of it.

 

 

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[Ctkong]

On 2/25/2019 at 5:25 PM, fredob43 said:

Sheryl.

Are you sure it's Granite and not Marble? they do look similar to the untrained eye, if it is that's why it's been sealed. Just a thought.

 

Snap of my marble table wish I had never brought it as it marks big time. Now we never use it last time was the Christmas before last. Had to put a thick cover over it then, just in case.

If you look at the marble coffee table in any traditional Asian coffee shop, you would notice the table top with various coffee stains. They mark easily. 

[steve187]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I don't think polishing will work as there is definitely a gloss sealant on and the tiny patches where the gloss was eroded off are fractionally lower in height than the rest. Polishing them down, even if I could manage it for such small spots, would just increase the difference. I need to add a gloss layer to those spots.. Will try the preparations recommended and report back.

 

The stone, whatever it is, it is not soft. But it definitely came with hard shiny gloss on the top surface of it.

 

 

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sheryl, just because its there doesn't mean it should be, if you mean to add some gloss finish liquid, then i suggest you at the very least rub down the lip

[fredob43]

6 hours ago, Ctkong said:

If you look at the marble coffee table in any traditional Asian coffee shop, you would notice the table top with various coffee stains. They mark easily. 

I do know that marble stains big time. But this one did it the first time we used it. Put warm (Not hot) plates on it over place mats and it even marked it then. Not bad but it was there. Think it was designed for Thais as they eat everything cold even goodies that we would eat hot.

 

Now the Wife just uses it to cut out her sewing plans, when she make new tops.

So at least it gets some use. 

 

I would put it into another room and get a new table and chairs but it weighs a ton. Table comes in 4 parts, Round base main leg another top same as the base then the top. To give you an idea of weight it takes 5 strong Thai men just to lift the top off. It doesn't look it in the snaps, but its 5 foot wide and some 4 inches thick. 

As luck would have it we have a very large lounge 50smt+ so it can stay where it is.  

Edited February 26, 2019 by fredob43

[melvinmelvin]

On 2/25/2019 at 4:10 PM, fredob43 said:

I have been working on Granite, Marble, as well as ceramic tiles, for many years and Never have I seen or had to use a sealer on Granite. Some types of Marble and ceramic yes but it's rear. Just defeats the object of using Granite in the first place. Just look at above post by Johng. Maybe I'm wrong but can you point out where he puts the sealer on the Granite once polished. Like the rest of us have done in the past we just use finer and finer abrasive, In his case pads till the polish comes back.

 

I do know that Thailand does produce it's own type of Granite but that should never be used for work tops not hard enough. More like Marble. Learnt that from the Modern BKK granite company in Tak. Must say I didn't know that before.

agree,

the granite I have at home come from India, Italy and Norway, all stone hard to put it that way

have a pretty big coffee table that I have had for more than 20 years, it takes all kinds of abuse,

never a scratch never a stain, don't even need to use ashtrays on that table, the surface will do,

lukewarm water and mild soap - clean - it never loses the shiny surface

 

marble is a very different story, nice to look at, difficult material, better use it for purposes that

do not abuse the surface, a coffee table is OK as long as you never ever spill a drop of coffee - tea - cream cake

or gin tonic

using marble for decorative purposes is OK if you limit yourself to totally dry environments and no banging

on the surface

 

anyway, that is my experience

 

another comment,

 

it was said in a post that tiles are not porous,

my experience is that they are, liquid seeps through ordinary shiny surface tiles

 

there are tiles which are not porous, but then we talk a very very different cost range

ie tiles used in indoor swimming pools can be non porous, hence water proof

such tiles come at a price