UK's Labour says it will back call for second Brexit referendum

[AGareth2]

the next referendum

should be on whether we rejoin

as a vassal state

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I want!

[SheungWan]

11 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Jezza I would do anything to stay in power. He has finally crumbled. Possibly due to the anti-Semitic calls in his party.

Either way a man who has been against the EU and now supports them. How could anyone trust a leader like that! I wonder what the 60% plus of Labour voters will do who voted in the last referendum.

I know, they probably have all died if you listen to some on here.

One or two are on life support on this thread.

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So says another non Brit who thinks the U.K should remain part of the hated E.u.

As an American,can you not understand,our Boston tea party, was the People’s referendum in 2016. At which we were promised by our Representatives, that the Democratic decision of the people would be respected and implemented.

 To do otherwise,means the end of Democracy in our country.

 

...

 

 

 

Nope.

I don't see an equivalency in those two things at all.

EU countries are not colonies of the EU. They are fully participating members of EU. 

Nice try. No cigar.

I would stay in and have a VOICE in reforming the EU. 

 

 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Seriously questions that needn't be asked, needn't be answered.

You must be the only member on this forum that needs this explaining, are you being deliberately obstropolous, why do you question the obvious.

Would that be a reference to Obstropolous the Greek Minister from Moussaka?

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, jvs said:

I am not British but am from Europe and i am just wondering what would happen if a second vote was won by the leavers again?

Would it change anything?

Depends on the wording.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

I think what you are trying to say is, let them keep voting untill I get the result that makes me happy.

Nothing will make most Brexiteers happy. Miserable and grumpy the moment they wake up until the moment they sleep.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

How many more times? Remain will be stuffed by a far bigger margin therefore "Bring it on!"

That's the spirit!

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

am familiar with "such eggs",

most of us have some good streaks and some not so good streaks

thankfully

one can be such an egg without being a curate

 

 

 

I had bacon and egg once. The bacon had some nice streaks but the egg was a bit curate.

[aright]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Nope.

I don't see an equivalency in those two things at all.

EU countries are not colonies of the EU. They are fully participating members of EU. 

Nice try. No cigar.

I would stay in and have a VOICE in reforming the EU. 

 

 

What a great idea. As an MEP didn't Nigel Farage try to do this. How far did he get? After 40 odd years can you tell me what UK political party I should vote for to effect this reform? 

[vogie]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Would that be a reference to Obstropolous the Greek Minister from Moussaka?

No, it was a reference to porker the geek.

[bannork]

47 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Nope.

I don't see an equivalency in those two things at all.

EU countries are not colonies of the EU. They are fully participating members of EU. 

Nice try. No cigar.

I would stay in and have a VOICE in reforming the EU. 

 

 

The only American who seems to want us to leave the EU is Donald. Now doesn't that give some of you Brexiteers food for thought?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

The only American who seems to want us to leave the EU is Donald. Now doesn't that give some of you Brexiteers food for thought?

Yes, he wants Britain to be great again.

 

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

The only American who seems to want us to leave the EU is Donald. Now doesn't that give some of you Brexiteers food for thought?

Has there been some kind of poll in the USA to find out what they all think or have you just heard Trump mentioning it and you find that to be conclusive ?

  Is Trump the ONLY American that wants the UK to leave the E.U and does every other American want the UK to stay ?

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Flogging a dead horse

 

But don't worry, once Brexit is stopped, no government will EVER ask the people for an opinion again. So enjoy it, it's the last gig.

The next Government then could be led by Ferage , so there would be no need for another referendum  

[soalbundy]

13 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Britain's opposition Labour Party said on Monday it would back calls for a second referendum on Brexit if parliament rejects its alternative plan for leaving the European Union..."

 

Good for them!

 

Brexiteers will (rightly) say that a referendum has already occurred and ignoring it is counter to good Democracy, and they are right. However, the UK is truly, truly in the proverbial gap between a rock and a hard place, and politics is the art of the possible. 

 

To those who believe that leaving the EU without a transition agreement in place is okay, I would argue that the politicians have a duty, somewhat similar to the Hippocratic oath of doctors, of doing the least harm. A 'Hard Brexit' is the equivalent of leaping off a tall building and making landing arrangements on the way down.

 

It isn't very democratic, it is far, far, far from the ideal solution, but it is the least worst idea.

 

Put it all on the table (yes, again) and let the people decide (yes, again).

 

 

The UK seems to be tip-toeing away from Brexit with a red face.

[bannork]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes, he wants Britain to be great again.

 

 

He wants to be able to trade with a country all alone, without a trading bloc to back it up.

[sanemax]

Just now, soalbundy said:

The UK seems to be tip-toeing away from Brexit with a red face.

Labour isnt the UK Government and Corbyn has no say in the matter

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Although democracy isn't , keep asking people the same question, untill they give you the answer that you want to hear 

 

  2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yes, democratic decisions happened elsewhere, and we know it must be disappointing for Brexiteers that people voted in favor of the EU. That’s how democracy works. The people speak.

 

You are correct when you say that the people spoke.

 

And speak they did.

 

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/electorate-and-count-information

Number of local areas declared: 382/382

 

Leave: 17,410,742 (51.9%)

 

Remain: 16,141,241 (48.1%)

 

That left a balance of 12,948,018 who actually couldn't be bothered or the sick lame and lazy.

 

Now as I understand it all the Leavers were old, uneducated, stupid moronic cretins who shouldn't even be allowed to vote, whereas the Remainers were smart, very well educated and are amongst the best leaders in the country.

 

(You can find all these insults and compliments on many Remainers posts on the many threads about Brexit).

 

What confuses me is that with all the brilliant people who voted to Remain they still lost the referendum and are still whining about it 2 1/2 years later.

 

After all if they were that smart you would tend to think that they would have won by a landslide and not lost by over 1.3 million votes.

 

It was not as if the referendum was an overnight decision. The government even sent leaflets around all the households (at the taxpayers expense) explaining that there were 2 2 choices, Leave or Remain and that the government would commit themselves to carry out the action that the winning side wanted.

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

Given it was based on known lies (wheres that bus now ?) - and with zero idea of how this would turn out (stunningly badly) - you couldn't be more wrong.

You mean the known lies from the Chancellor who said that a drastic budget would be forced upon the UK by himself, https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

 

or here https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexit-project-fear-david-cameron/

 

or here https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/project-fear-two-years-on-six-brexit-predictions-that-failed-to-come-true/

 

or here https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1082665/brexit-news-project-fear-city-of-london-exodus-finance

 

or here https://www.politico.eu/article/accurate-prophecy-or-misleading-project-fear-how-referendum-claims-have-panned-out-so-far/

 

Well there are 5 links for you to get your teeth into.

 

BTW what happened to your links as I didn't see any in your post. After all if you say it is true then back it up with links and references and not just your words.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Nope.

I don't see an equivalency in those two things at all.

EU countries are not colonies of the EU. They are fully participating members of EU. 

Nice try. No cigar.

I would stay in and have a VOICE in reforming the EU. 

 

 

Soon to be fully participating provinces of the EU. ????????

[mommysboy]

For me, it began to shape up as a no deal exit, or cancellation of Brexit some time ago.  A Final Say seems appropriate imo, because nobody thought for one moment we would be left with two meagre exit strategies.  Importantly, the campaign was won with the pie in the sky promise of a free trade deal that has not materialised.

 

If Leavers win again, and that could well happen, then at least one argument is over.

[nauseus]

45 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The UK seems to be tip-toeing away from Brexit with a red face.

Any embarrassment is due to an unbelievably weak PM and our fickle government and parliament. 

 

Talking of which it looks like the Westminster Comedy Club is open now! 

[Spidey]

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

UKIP 12.7% at 2015.
Wait for the next GE. Get it then.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

UKIP 1.8% 2017 election.

 

Can't wait!

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

For me, it began to shape up as a no deal exit, or cancellation of Brexit some time ago.  A Final Say seems appropriate imo, because nobody thought for one moment we would be left with two meagre exit strategies.  Importantly, the campaign was won with the pie in the sky promise of a free trade deal that has not materialised.

 

If Leavers win again, and that could well happen, then at least one argument is over.

Leavers could win again except it is looking more and more like no-deal is going to be off the table completely soon.

 

May has just made a statement to the House saying that if her deal is rejected on the 12th March then the House should vote about the No-Deal option and also voting about an extension to the leave date.  Clearly she is having to yet again backtrack, more or less scrapping the red lines she was desperately trying to keep.

 

 

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, rixalex said:

If the basis for the argument for having another referendum is that people didn't know what they were voting for in 2016, do you really think that of the three options that most remainers seem to want as a choice - May's 600 page deal / no deal / scrap the whole thing - people will know any better what they are voting for?

 

To know what you were voting for with Choice 1: May's deal, to begin with, you'd need to read and understand that 600 page document. How many voters will be doing that? And then, since that document only deals with the terms of departure, not with the new agreements outside of the EU once we have left, you'll need to get a crystal ball to find out what those agreements will be.

 

With Choice 2: "no deal", voters have nothing concrete whatsoever to go on. Believe in the remainers and the world will come to an end. Believe in leavers and let the good times roll.

 

With Choice 3: "scrap the whole thing", it's not known what terms Britain would remain under. May be same as before. May not. What you can comfortably expect though is that the EU would taken even less seriously Britain calling for reform because what is Britain going to do if it doesn't like EU policy? Threaten to leave?! You'd have the EU bureaucrats splitting their sides laughing so much.

 

At least with the 2016 referendum, regardless of how well people understood matters, they were simply deciding on a direction of travel. To go left or to go right. How we get to where we are going, was to be left to the politicians. Now you want people getting involved in something far more complicated, and with as many unknowns as ever there were.

There will only be 2 choices on the ballot paper but let's assume that there are 3 (which would split the Brexit vote in 2).

 

1. The document is live. It will be fully explained to the public before the vote. Unlike in 2016 when no one had a clue what terms we would be leaving on and were lied to by both the Brexit campaign and Russian trolls.

 

2, With a no deal exit, it's known what that would entail. Several years of negotiating the hundreds of trade deals we are currently governed by. WTO rules, in the meantime. Same as Eritrea.

 

3. It's know exactly what rescinding Article 50 would entail. It's cast in stone that we would revert to terms and conditions that applied before (and now). Already been tested in the European courts.

 

In no way was the 2016 referendum dictated by "left or right", that really is a nonsense. Leavers and remainers on both sides of the house (as been illustrated in the last few days). Also, amongst my friends/acquaintances I saw no indication of a socialist/right wing split amongst brexiteers/remainers.

 

I don't even see it amongst the posters on Brexit threads, on this forum.

[beautifulthailand99]

Theresa May's statement today .....

 

Second, if the Government has not won a Meaningful Vote by Tuesday 12 March then it will – in addition to its obligations to table a neutral, amendable motion under section 13 of the EU Withdrawal Act – table a motion to be voted on by Wednesday 13 March at the latest, asking this House if it supports leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement and a framework for a future relationship on 29 March.

So the United Kingdom will only leave without a deal on 29 March if there is explicit consent in this House for that outcome.

 

We are staying in - sadly I transferred 71k sterling at 40.3 baht - I should have had the courage of my convictions and waited for the inevitable remain I have been predicting for the last two years. Anyway a small price to pay for a stronger pound and UK economy in the long term. 

 

Thank god for a sovereign Parliament to make the right decision on behalf of the people. Long Live Representative Democracy. My 48 baht Archa has rarely tasted so sweet. 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Has there been some kind of poll in the USA to find out what they all think or have you just heard Trump mentioning it and you find that to be conclusive ?

  Is Trump the ONLY American that wants the UK to leave the E.U and does every other American want the UK to stay ?

Actually I think you will find most Americans have no idea what the EU is, where Europe is, or care a jot about Europe at all. 

[beautifulthailand99]

Good article from Brexit Central recognising the total capitulation at the final hour.....

 

https://brexitcentral.com/delaying-brexit-extension-article-50-means-remaining-eu/

 

I wish we could have a deal. I wish we could leave on easier terms than WTO. But most of all I wish were sure we will leave the EU on 29th March. If we don’t, Brexit will not be extended. It will be extinguished. Click, click, click.

 

for my generation, if I live to be 100 then I can truly say this is OUR finest hour. 

 

Long Live the EU, Freedom of Movement and a Sovereign UK Parliament. 

[dunroaming]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Theresa May's statement today .....

 

Second, if the Government has not won a Meaningful Vote by Tuesday 12 March then it will – in addition to its obligations to table a neutral, amendable motion under section 13 of the EU Withdrawal Act – table a motion to be voted on by Wednesday 13 March at the latest, asking this House if it supports leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement and a framework for a future relationship on 29 March.

So the United Kingdom will only leave without a deal on 29 March if there is explicit consent in this House for that outcome.

 

We are staying in - sadly I transferred 71k sterling at 40.3 baht - I should have had the courage of my convictions and waited for the inevitable remain I have been predicting for the last two years. Anyway a small price to pay for a stronger pound and UK economy in the long term. 

 

Thank god for a sovereign Parliament to make the right decision on behalf of the people. Long Live Representative Democracy. My 48 baht Archa has rarely tasted so sweet. 

Not necessarily staying in.  Without No-Deal then the options will inevitably be No-Brexit or May's deal.  Then it is whether the Brexiteers can bring themselves to vote to stay in rather than May's deal, albeit if that means leaving in name only.  It is estimated (I know, more guess work) that if there was a second vote then 80% of the new voters (those who were too young to vote before) would vote to remain. Therefore the odds would be stacked heavily on a remain vote. Given that I wonder how many people would just refuse to vote at all.