<deleted> this I'm outta here! Why do you stay?

[theonetrueaussie]

honestly what's your reason for even staying in Thailand these days. I used to think Thailand was cheap and fun but after following some Digital Nomad discussions online there are WAY WAY better places to stay in the world and far cheaper who actually want tourists not just their money. 

[tlandtday]

9 hours ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

Pattaya!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

good place if you are mainly here for mongering and staying indoors... however if you so a study you will see now there is terrible air quality here for the high season starting november and ending around march... the result of traffic, burning and factories.... not a good choice for the long run...

[lipflipper]

I stay because for most of year it's a damn nice place to be. That being said the burning season is getting worse by the year, traffic is fast approaching crawling speed and with the uncertainty regarding long term visas it is losing its appeal. I get out of here for two months at a time, April and May then November and December so I am able still to appreciate Chiang Mai but I am keeping an open mind about even staying in Thailand. Life is too short to have to deal with issues you have no control over.

Sent from my CMR-AL19 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tandor]

19 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Uh, the air quality is a passing thing, which you'd know if you did a modicum of research. 

What next? Too rainy in the rainy season? 

..too sore after a massage.

[lordblackader]

Instead of whining, do what many people do - take holidays in March to escape the smog, it's not rocket science. 

 

I'm typing this from Southern China after having left Chiang Mai a week ago and I know many other acquaintances who live in Chiang Mai the rest of the year are currently traveling as well.

 

The smog is bad in March - it always has been so plan for it. 

[Jimbo2014]

The north is worse than Delhi and this government doesnt seem to consider the health of its citizens a high priority.  Chang Mai is a hazard zone.

[lucky2008]

12 minutes ago, lordblackader said:

Instead of whining, do what many people do - take holidays in March to escape the smog, it's not rocket science. 

 

 

Some of us have children. It's not as easy as you might think to just pack up and leave. 

 

Also there are many people on a fixed budget which can't afford to travel. 

 

And then there are the people that just rather not travel. 

 

Seriously, do you think the air is only bad in March? ????

 

[dpcjsr]

You are correct in that the air quality is unacceptable for any intelligent being. You either stay and put up with it or find an alternative. Unfortunately for me I have had to stay here this year and I have suffered daily. 

 

Normally, I like to head south to the beaches for a couple of months. A friend took off for Mexico this year and went to Turkey another year. If you have the means then getting out of town is a great idea and the beaches down south mean you do not have to leave Thailand. 

 

For me the best option is living in CM and going south every year. I know a number of people who do the same. If that does not seem like something you want to do then moving south permanently might suit you better. 

 

It is a real problem for many people and it is never going to get fixed.

 

Good luck. 

[unamazedloso]

Its polluted everywhere to some extent. The only place ive lived and never had pollution worries was rawai and khaolak. ive lived in 9 other provinces and they all suck. I lived in bkk which is always talked about and cm for just a year but kanchanaburi where i am now is by far the worst ive seen and dont believe the online reporting. Make sure youve got your own pm2.5 counter!

i was out side fighting fires yesterday alone with no help from orbator or anyone. Fires lit in public land by government officials because of their greed to take bamboo to sell, ferment, etc.. I saved my farm and about 15-20rai was lost. I fought the fires for 4hours alone with not even one another local contemplating picking up a bucket so my house wouldnt burn. fn pricks! Burning anything is illegal at the moment but not here really. People are calling for assistance everyday and no one is doing anything. Its all a sham...

[cardinalblue]

Air pollution is not a passing thing but a dangerous thing....it has immediate health effects on the body but the real unknown concern is the LT effects of taking months and years off your life....

 

with children, your family cannot live in two permanent places. If the child is in a Thai school and you have the money, you could move for March and April to bkk or a beach setting....yes it’s a pain to uproot the family. You yourself could always stay longer until the rains come....

 

CM really has turned into a 5-month undesirable location to live...some people seem to deny the reality that the AP is only March. It started in January this and last year and just gets worse. Let’s see how long it lasts this year. These people have a notion that they don’t want to accept that one bad month is acceptable and anything longer is not - complete denial stage that they don’t want to face and deal with - so they hold onto that belief of its only one bad month.....

 

When I read comments like AP is a passing fancy, further evidence that AP affects cognitive abilities as well...

 

you have a lot of support as AP is unacceptable at any level...has become the most talked about topic among CM ex-pats today

Edited March 22, 2019 by cardinalblue

[lucky2008]

12 minutes ago, unamazedloso said:

Its polluted everywhere to some extent. The only place ive lived and never had pollution worries was rawai and khaolak. ive lived in 9 other provinces and they all suck. I lived in bkk which is always talked about and cm for just a year but kanchanaburi where i am now is by far the worst ive seen and dont believe the online reporting. Make sure youve got your own pm2.5 counter!

i was out side fighting fires yesterday alone with no help from orbator or anyone. Fires lit in public land by government officials because of their greed to take bamboo to sell, ferment, etc.. I saved my farm and about 15-20rai was lost. I fought the fires for 4hours alone with not even one another local contemplating picking up a bucket so my house wouldnt burn. fn pricks! Burning anything is illegal at the moment but not here really. People are calling for assistance everyday and no one is doing anything. Its all a sham...

That sounds horrible!! I so am sorry I really feel for you. I also live on a good size plot of land 20km outside of Chiang Mai, and the neighbors are constantly burning shit laughing carrying on while drinking Thai whisky. <deleted> idiots! 

 

 

[Curt1591]

"Let's just say for a moment you don't have anything holding you down here in CM ..."

If there was nothing there for me, I wouldn't stay.

[Mukdahanman]

OP, CM has always held a fascination for me - the walled city, the history, the river, the night markets, the elephants/snakes/monkeys, the bars, the mountain, the zoo, the malls and the people.

The grass is always greener......

[timendres]

19 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Like I said to some people it's nothing, but for those of us that have children it's a major concern.  Yes, even if it's only a passing thing, and only a couple months throughout the year.  I guess you have to have small children to truly understand how I feel. 

 

Not only do pollutants harm babies’ developing lungs – they can permanently damage their developing brains. A young child’s brain is especially vulnerable because it can be damaged by a smaller dosage of toxic chemicals, compared to an adult’s brain. Children are also highly vulnerable to air pollution because they breathe more rapidly and also because their physical defenses and immune system are not fully developed.

 

I really think it's hard to overstate the influence air pollution has on human health. 

 

Anyways why don't you share with us some of the GOOD reasons you stay here in Chiang Mai?  I'm sure there are many people such as yourself that are not really concerned about the pollution, and would still love to know what makes Chiang Mai so great to so many expats. 

You are spot on about your children, and it is nice to see a parent putting their children's needs front and center.

 

Most like Chiang Mai because the weather is a little cooler, as one of TH's largest cities it has many resources, there are many other expats there, it is affordable, has a good airport, decent hospital, lots of affordable and nice houses to rent, and is much more relaxed than Bangkok.

 

I personally prefer to live in Bangkok, then travel to the more relaxed places to get away. But I would not necessarily recommend BKK to someone with children - it is a mixed bag. As mentioned, Udon is a favorite for many Farang, and for many reasons similar to Chiang Mai, although still having issues with the air although better. Hua Hin is very nice, although a bit pricey, and a bit lacking on some points (schools, entertainment, etc.), but I have always enjoyed visiting, and it has a large expat community.

[flexomike]

18 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

Understand about the Laos angle but the cost to go over is 1500 baht and you are limited to two a year of I'm not mistaken. Be great if you could do as many as you like but I don't think that's the case. 

multi entry permit, go as often as you like

[Trujillo]

"Anyways why don't you share with us some of the GOOD reasons you stay here in Chiang Mai?  I'm sure there are many people such as yourself that are not really concerned about the pollution, and would still love to know what makes Chiang Mai so great to so many expats."

 

This is sort of a trick question.

For me, the air quality at this time of the year isn't good, obviously, but it's part of the package. 

In a sense, this is like asking someone who lives in colder climes how they can possibly live in a place that snows for months of the year (and is bone-chillingly cold). Yes, I realize that snow and cold isn't necessarily deleterious to one's health, but for some, namely the elderly, it's a challenge. 

 

No, I have no children to deal with and if small lungs allegedly being damaged by the few months each year the air quality isn't great, then I'd be turning around and asking you why would you even consider being here at all? Isn't that a form of child abuse? Should we be calling Social Services? 

 

You declare as truth that small particles can seriously harm children and even cause brain damage. I'm not sure this isn't a false premise. Aside from the fact that everything you read on the internet is true, one might look at the Thai population in the North and conclude that since they have been exposed to the burning season every year for every year of their lives, they are all brain damaged and all have compromised respiratory systems. Are all Thais in the North mentally stunted and have lung problems? If your reasoning is correct, then you would expect this to be true (truer than what would happen to children/infants who are only exposed to the burning season temporarily, unless you plan to raise the kids here forever). 

 

The reasons I stay here have much to do with where I live, meaning my house is in a good location geographically for the things I want to do, and the house and property itself is a real gem. If I had to live in a condo here, I would not stay. As a retired person, I think quality of life is paramount and for me, the few months a year of bad air is a small price to pay for the many positives here -- favorable cost of living; nearness to nature, wonderful in winter...and all the reasons you can read in other threads in the same vein. 

 

In the end, if you think the air during this time is that damaging to the kids, it would be criminal to stay here. 

[cardinalblue]

Is not the basic definition of nature of one of clean air and clean water?

 

Pollution cancel outs any benefits derived from nature....

 

The mindset of “living for the weekend” has now come to the retiree......sad justification 

[emptypockets]

OP.... How old are you? 

[Happystance]

On 3/21/2019 at 8:53 PM, Trujillo said:

Uh, the air quality is a passing thing, which you'd know if you did a modicum of research. 

Yeah, right. Your "modicum of research" would inform you that that Chiang Mai has unacceptable air quality 7-9 months of the year by global standards.

 

Inept posting is a passing thing too.

[lucky2008]

5 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Aside from the fact that everything you read on the internet is true, one might look at the Thai population in the North and conclude that since they have been exposed to the burning season every year for every year of their lives, they are all brain damaged and all have compromised respiratory systems. Are all Thais in the North mentally stunted and have lung problems? 

 

In the end, if you think the air during this time is that damaging to the kids, it would be criminal to stay here. 

I'm sure not all Thais are mentally stunted and have lung problems, but it's a fact that out of all the regions in Thailand, the northern part ranks first in mortality rate caused by lung cancer, and also has the highest mortality rate compared to other types of cancers in the country.  

 

Air pollution causing cancer... Nahh no way, it's nothing it will pass right? ???? 

 

Is it criminal to raise children here indefinitely without having ties to CM? I would have to say yes, especially if the parents know that CM currently has the most polluted air on the planet. 

 

Beside the cheap mangos, I really do enjoy living here. I love the cool evenings and cool mornings sitting out on my patio deck, picking and eating the fresh fruit from the numerous tress we have in our garden, hiking, bike riding, and like you said just being near to "nature," but I'm sure you can agree it's no longer the enjoyable when you're breathing in this filthy ass air. 

 

Thanks for contributing. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by lucky2008

[HaleySabai]

22 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Uh, the air quality is a passing thing, which you'd know if you did a modicum of research. 

What next? Too rainy in the rainy season? 

Ah,the truth of impermanence...and perhaps why things seldom ever change.

 

Chiang Mai is currently choking with the accolades of being No.# 1,but it's annual city ranking is 522 with a daily average of 24.5(PM2.5) - according to Air Visual 2018.            Overall this is a very livable air quality in my humble cardio-condition.

 

However, being in the doldrums for the last 2wks,locked-up tight in the house with the wife and kids is really starting to wear on me. The kids especially are beginning to show sighs of cabin-fever. Of course we go outside but with daily AQI of 200+,300+ in our area(Mae Rim),we mostly stay indoors. We home-school our kids so there is stuff to do,but I've reached the point now,I'd rather just do it somewhere else. Iam adamant that this be the last March spent in CM.

 

The gift that Good ol' ChiangMai is offering us for next March is a holiday get away to endure the riggers of sea,sun & sand. I know of very nice non-tourist enclaves in the south where the whole fam. could hang and breath easy without crashing the budget.

Looking forward to re-discovering some of these non-Island destinations I used to enjoy.

 

We have lived in and loved ChiangMai for 15yrs, it's home, the wife is from here and our kids were both born here. But in the last few years the AQI has escalated dangerously from Feb. well into April with readings of 400+ and even 500 in some areas...this is funking nuts!!...and I don't expect positive change,anytime.

So the conclusion for us is to press the jettison-button and 'take an extended holiday'. As opposed to stocking more air-filters,building an oxygen tent ect...

 

Interesting how for some people it doesn't seem to be an issue. A few days ago some relatives came to visit,first thing they did was open all the windows,front & back door open and they all sat outside on the deck...I thought <deleted>!!! The AQI was over 200 at that moment. None of them appear sick from the bad air and as I closed-up the house I got that "we're all gonna die someday" look...with a smile.

Ya, another truism, but don't come to me looking for a hand-out to cover your hospital bills...in the future.

 

[Marpa47]

I read or heard someplace that farmers have to burn due to mold or fungus or insects or some other kind of infestation prevention or all of the above. If that isn’t done, then the crops will die. So, isn’t there an alternative that benefits everyone?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

[portly]

Not really had much problem in CM last few years, 

This year had a racking cough since december, the worst .

 Flew down to bkk then cha -am.. in Feb   .12 hours later completely gone , stayed a few days

Back to bkk ,then Cm. yep ,coughing like a goodun.

69 now , not a good age to up sticks, going back there for a month....maybe needs must for healths sake.

[balo]

On 3/21/2019 at 6:48 PM, lucky2008 said:

If you were to move what city in Thailand would you choose and why?

 

I would choose Pattaya City.  You have the nice sea breeze from the ocean and easy to find places with a sea view here. 

 

You can choose if you want to be a part of the infamous nightlife , or just live a normal life with lots of good restaurants nearby and many things to do.  

I have lived in CM for one year and that was the most boring year in Thailand. Except for the beautiful scenery and mountains, there is not much to do. 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, balo said:

 

I would choose Pattaya City.  You have the nice sea breeze from the ocean and easy to find places with a sea view here. 

 

You can choose if you want to be a part of the infamous nightlife , or just live a normal life with lots of good restaurants nearby and many things to do.  

I have lived in CM for one year and that was the most boring year in Thailand. Except for the beautiful scenery and mountains, there is not much to do. 

 

Must be really exciting looking at the sea , watching the turds float by

[piewarmer]

CM choking right now and the air stinks, readings closing in on 500, buy some mangos and get those wheels turning

[Jane Dough]

The peace, quiet, variety, friendliness and general cleanliness of Bangkok is worth considering. One of Thailand's best kept secrets. 

 

Rooster

[Trujillo]

Click link please:

 

Find a place to live in between the red dots...

[RoadWarrior371]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

Must be really exciting looking at the sea , watching the turds float by

You can swim?

[Samuel Smith]

23 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Click link please:

 

Find a place to live in between the red dots...

You mean Chiang Mai valley, surrounded by fires on the surrounding hills?