After 11 years in Chiang Mai, I was Denied Entry

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, cerox said:

You should be able to leave within a few months if another place becomes much more favorable.

More likely 7 days if you are refused a renewal.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Most countries don't allow residence using tourist visas.

The OP was never given "residence" - and neither are those married to a Thai, on retirement, etc. 

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

All have special arrangements (visas) for long term stays.

They just get up to a year "permitted stay" and no more - unless one gets PR or Citizenship.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Thailand has such systems in place, but, because of many factors, corruption the most obvious, hasn't always enforced them.

Thailand never enacted a law limiting tourist-time in the country, because every day a self-funded foreigner spends money here, it is good for Thailand and the Thai people that spending employs.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

 

The result has been wide open borders and problems with overstayers, illegal workers, scammers and criminals.

Overstayers were handled with the bans.  Done.

The vast majority of illegal-workers come from Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos, etc - not higher-wage countries.  Those from higher-wage countries have no reason to come to Thailand and work an illegal-job, that pays even less than the lowest-paid job that exists in their passport country.

 

Criminals would not want to do what the OP was doing - repeatedly exposing themselves to scrutiny by the authorities.  They would pay Immigration's Agent-Partners to arrange longer-permitted-stays, and likely never see an IO face-to-face (at most, a quick visit for a photo).  As has been stated before, immigration's problem is not self-funded Tourists or other Western expats here - it is an Internal Problem with Corruption in their own ranks.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

They now seem to be enforcing these rules more stringently

What rules?  There is no legal-limit on "past time in Thailand" relevant to entering as a Tourist.  They are breaking the rules more stridently.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

and people who have previously taken advantage of the system are whining.

People who broke no laws are angry that a pack of criminals run several entry-points to the country.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

As someone who put up the 800k and jumped through the hoops, I have no sympathy.

He's probably not 50, so cannot waste the opportunity cost of 800K "in the bank" if he wanted to.  It's Apples and Oranges, with a side of "crabs in a bucket" - sounds like. Immigration making you freeze 800K in a bank to get 1-year permitted stays has nothing to do with the OP's situation, arriving for a 30-day stay. 

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

The OP has stated he has lived here for 11 years on temporary visas or visa free entry. He used education visas or 7 years before stopping because the rules had become ridiculous! Possibly the need to prove attendance at the institution?

Here is how that works.  "Prove attendance" = "Payoff Immigration every 3 months to the tune of 3K to 5K Baht.  If you attend, you still must pay them off, or they give you shorter-extensions as punishment for not paying the corruption-money.  That was how the "crackdown" worked - tripling the corruption-money income from ED Visas.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

He considers (and many here seem to agree) that the existence of easy entry facilities for genuine tourists means he should be allowed to use such systems to enter and live in the country at will.

Of course, because he was abiding by the law.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Many still think that a visa granted at an embassy gives automatic right of entry and can't be overruled at the point of entry!! 

There are specific reasons in the immigration act for denying entry.  The IOs admitted the real-reason they denied entry (here too much - which is not legal), then stamped a lie in his passport. 

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

And there's this - "I contort my face cause i havn't had a job for 15 years, i don't need to work."   Congratulations, you achieved what I always aspired to.  Why not simply buy the cheap, for you, Elite Visa?

Perhaps, because it costs 10x the cost of visas to other nearby countries, and requires 5-years paid up front?  In other words, it is a Very Bad Deal - literally burning money.  Only the very rich or very foolish would buy it.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

The only surprise for me was that you were allowed to live in the country for so long in this way. 

Not at all.  He used law-abiding points of entry before - the Chiang Mai airport, it would seem.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Yes, the IO staff at the border can be rude, are badly trained and react angrily when confronted by loud arrogant passengers, but the decision was correct.

No, the decision was criminal.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Perhaps your attitude led the way - "A short annoying tomboy officer raises her voice and says "why you in out so many times?"

They should, however,  learn to explain their reasons more clearly.

They couldn't.  He asked them to specify where in the law what he was doing was not permitted.  They had no answer, because there isn't one.  They know what they are doing is illegal - but probably have convinced themselves they "should be" allowed to do it, regardless.

[cleopatra2]

18 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Read Section 22 again carefully. It specifically outlines the procedure for appealing denied entry according to reasons specified in Section 12 of the Immigration Act. Although the appeal would almost certainly be denied (but perhaps not if sufficiently publicised before the decision was made) I do not think use of Section 12 (2) for people who are financially secure really stands up to scrutiny for those with visas. The argument that immigration on entry cannot judge someone's financial situation falls down on several grounds. First, it is not immigration's job to make that determination. That is the job of the consulate that issued the visa. Secondly, the immigration official is making clear to denied arrivals that the denial has nothing to do with their financial status, except that it is being used as a pretext to enforce non existent rules.

Section 22 states for persons who has entered and subsequently found to be prohibited under section 12.

 

 

[RickGl52]

It's interesting to see, despite the difference in nationalities and borders, there are those who refuse to accept responsibility for their own predicaments. It's always someone else's fault.

[freedomnow]

11 minutes ago, cerox said:

What happens in June?

HAL9000 comes online 'Dave' in June..they have some psy-ops  AI upgrade coming to the alert system on long-stay foreigners if I read right. You never see people getting so much hassle as DM vs land borders, but that may be about to change if all their system snaps together...

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

By his own admission he's not a tourist.

I have yet to see where he said he was working a job here, or didn't have the money to support his stay.  Is there somewhere in the Immigration Act I missed, where "tourists" are expected to be doing/not-doing something else to qualify under that designation?

 

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

all the visa abuse is what causes all the visa changes, affects the good guys

He wasn't abusing anything.  Immigration makes the "visa changes" to extract more corruption-money - not to stop corruption/abuse.  Just look what happens every time they change something.  Are the agents gone yet?  Has the ED-extension payoff-scam stopped yet?  No, they get more and more lucrative with each change. 

The key to understanding what is "really happening," is not to listen to their lies, but watch what their hands are doing - stuffing the loot into their pockets.

 

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

When you take up residence in another country you are not a tourist, no matter how rich you are! 

Unless you have PR or Citizenship in Thailand, you don't have residency here.  The most you can do is jump through some hoops, under some conditions, to get up to a year of permitted-stay.  The OP's permitted-stay on entry would have been only 30-days - a far cry from "residence" - even if he comes and goes frequently.

[KCM]

47 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

So they could not have stamped your passport 'denied entry'?  if they had how could anyone get you a new visa?

The stamp is in Thai so I can't read what it says, but the Thai Air staff told me it says that I wasn't allowed to enter because not carrying sufficient cash. When I got my tourist visa in Cambodia and my OA visa in L.A. I showed proof of sufficient money, so that's how I could get a new visa.

 

The IO who denied my entry told me to get a visa before coming back. There was no intention of permanent denial. They just wanted me to have a visa.

[Mattd]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Thailand never enacted a law limiting tourist-time in the country

Actually, the way that Thailand is set up there would be no need for a law to be enacted, all acts in Thailand can be supplemented by Ministerial Regulations and also in the case of the Immigration act, police orders.

Ministerial Regulations are extremely difficult to track, even for Thais.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Mattd

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Section 22 states for persons who has entered and subsequently found to be prohibited under section 12.

I don't know which translation of it you are reading but the one I have states this.

 

"Section 22 : In the instance where the competent official discovers that an alien is forbidden from
entering into the Kingdom under the provisions of Section 12 , the competent official shall have authority
to order said alien by written notification to leave the Kingdom. If said alien is not satisfied with the
competent official’s order , he ( alien ) may appeal to the Minister."

[cleopatra2]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't know which translation of it you are reading but the one I have states this.

 

"Section 22 : In the instance where the competent official discovers that an alien is forbidden from
entering into the Kingdom under the provisions of Section 12 , the competent official shall have authority
to order said alien by written notification to leave the Kingdom. If said alien is not satisfied with the
competent official’s order , he ( alien ) may appeal to the Minister."

The translation I have used is from Krisdika

[madmen]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

Perhaps avoiding DM is a good idea?

That means going full service airlines =$$

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, cerox said:

Interesting "prediction" that someone mentioned about proving residence elsewhere. But if that ever happened I would just go to Vietnam / Philippines. That is why I would advice people not to get too attached here - not having too much stuff, condo, cars etc. You should be able to leave within a few months if another place becomes much more favorable. 

I think even those on retirement or married to a Thai should have "Plan B" ready at all times.  We are not dealing with honest/decent people, in the case of this clique/cancer within immigration.   There are some good IOs who run many entry-points and offices, but can we count on them, and whoever above supports them, to protect our lives here?

 

A farang-hating clique has taken over both capital-city airports (and some others), pushed crazy re-writes of rules for retirement extensions, begun 1 to 2 months "back door" additional "seasoning" and restricted the "type of income" one can use for marriage-based extensions, and pushed several embassies to stop issuing income-verification letters.  They "fixed" ED extensions a couple years ago, requiring several payoffs to get full-extensions.

 

All these changes are in one direction only - removing more us from the country and maximizing corruption revenue via agents.  Some are still living here hassle-free - able to meet what their local IO wants - but the noose is tightening.  In the worst offices, the agent-system works, for now, in that they are happy to take the corruption-money - but can anyone feel relaxed when "being allowed to live here" due to a bribe by-proxy?  Only if they have a "Plan B" ready to go.

 

24 minutes ago, mokwit said:

32 minutes ago, cerox said:

You should be able to leave within a few months if another place becomes much more favorable.

More likely 7 days if you are refused a renewal. 

Always apply 30-days early.  Then you have 37 days to re-arrange your life elsewhere.  That's the best offer on the table with Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The translation I have used is from Krisdika

Mine was downloaded from the immigration website.

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 English translation

Edit: Sorry but that one is from the consul of state but it the same as the one I quoted.

Edited March 22, 2019 by ubonjoe

[JackThompson]

30 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Any similar bad reports at Phuket, I’ve not heard of any?

Yes.  Avoid both airports in Bangkok, plus Phuket, Krabi, and Samui.  No bad reports from CM airport, or the other smaller ones (that I've seen), but any air-entry is risky, in comparison to a land-border entry - simply because by land, there is no risk of detention.

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Actually, the way that Thailand is set up there would be no need for a law to be enacted, all acts in Thailand can be supplemented by Ministerial Regulations and also in the case of the Immigration act, police orders.

Ministerial Regulations are extremely difficult to track, even for Thais.

Correct - they would not have to re-write the Immigration Act.  But there is no M.R. or P.O. which limits "time in country before" with respect to Tourist entries.  As well, the Minister could designate a group as inadmissible under specific conditions - but in that case, the denial-stamp would reflect this. 

[55Jay]

OP fits a few profiles Immi has been targeting for few years already.  It was just a matter of time.  I reckon he knew that, and had been mentally preparing for the eventual airport showdown at high noon.

[KarlS]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes.  Avoid both airports in Bangkok, plus Phuket, Krabi, and Samui.  No bad reports from CM airport, or the other smaller ones (that I've seen), but any air-entry is risky, in comparison to a land-border entry - simply because by land, there is no risk of detention.

NONSENSE --  Millions of people use those airports without any problem.

[edwardandtubs]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes.  Avoid both airports in Bangkok, plus Phuket, Krabi, and Samui.  No bad reports from CM airport, or the other smaller ones (that I've seen), but any air-entry is risky, in comparison to a land-border entry - simply because by land, there is no risk of detention.

 

I believe you can fly from Kuala Lumpur to Hat Tai so that could be an option.

[WeekendRaider]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Always a mistake, never speak to IOs or other government officials in Thai, they don't like it.

Happy and a bit stupid is the way to go.

most of the time our "Thai" is not very good at all.  I've heard plenty of "fluent Thai" farlang who can seem to talk their heads off in Pasa Thai but don't even come close to correctly pronouncing the most simple and common everyday words.   and don't even know it.   and I don't mean Gahm Meuang words.  and not only that, but he is at a Bangkok airport so he means Pasa Thai.  "living in Chiangmai for 11 years".  Thai is good for working in a school... ordering simple food and watching TV.  to live in Chiangmai long term at all, other than as a tourist in the farlang sections... even if working as a teacher, you need to understand more than just Pasa Thai... and would indicate it as well and especially if talking about speaking Thai several times.  over the top.  those are all good 'tells', that his Thai is not very good at all.  

Edited March 22, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

most of the time our "Thai" is not very good at all.  I've heard plenty of "fluent Thai" farlang who can seem to talk their heads off in Pasa Thai but don't even come close to correctly pronouncing the most simple and common everyday words!!!  and I don't mean Gahm Meuang words.  and not only that, but he is at a Bangkok airport so he means Pasa Thai.  "living in Chiangmai for 11 years".  Thai is good for working in a school... ordering simple food and watching TV.  to live in Chiangmai long term at all, other than as a tourist in the farlang sections... even if working as a teacher, you need to understand more than just Pasa Thai... and would indicate it as well and especially if talking about speaking Thai several times.  over the top. 

That may be the case for you but my spoken (CM) Lanna & Central is almost perfect, although my writing is always a bit iffy, mainly because my tone marks are missing/wrong.

Edited March 22, 2019 by BritManToo

[cleopatra2]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Mine was downloaded from the immigration website.

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 English translation

Edit: Sorry but that one is from the consul of state but it the same as the one I quoted.

To claim it applies to denial of entry , in my opinion is a poor reading of  section 22.

In the case of denial of entry the person has not entered The Kingdom, thus the notification that Section 22 refers to becomes null. How can you request somebody to leave when they have not actually entered.

 

Secondly , on receiving the appeal , the competent official has to delay deportation , while a decision is made. Deportation only apply to persons who have entered the Kingdom.

 

The more natural reading is that section 12 prevents aliens from entering. However it is reasonable to believe  not everybody who falls within section 12 will be identified at the checkpoint, and thus given permission to enter.

Section 22 is to allow such persons who have entered , but fall in the categories under section 12 to be expelled. 

[cerox]

I just meant having a plan B when I said a few months ???? Of course you are right when you say 7 days, but most likely we could re-enter a few months later for 1-2 months to arrange everything in the worst-case.

That is the main reason why I do not buy to much here - to stay flexible, I am not stressed when things should take a big change, I can leave. I keep all assets in my home country where I can always return to.

 

I am curious what you guys meant with the attendance scam / payoff. I use ED visas too, I am aware of the new attendance record, but honestly every school I know will just sign that you were there every time. Everyone knows that, it is part of the visa system and this is why ED visas are not cheap. The money paid to school includes some donations to immigration, not only money for the school and teachers.

 

With all this corruption and many changes in immigration, for me it is just risky to buy elite card for 20 years. But the main reason is still to be flexible. Who knows where I want to be in 2 years.

 

[tingtongtourist]

4 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Source of the actual MFA announcement? Source or it's just hearsay.

 

The same system that alerts on 6 VE entries does not alert on 3 SETVs or 1 METV, so I doubt it was set in place to prevent tourists from staying longer than 180 days a year. More likely it is there so long term tourists have to get tourist visas and prove they have means to support themselves, which does make sense.

 

Firstly they consider him the VE abuser, which now seem a worse crime than even living there many years.

 

Right or wrong, they obviously assume people avoid to get the real visa for bad reasons.

 

Because for YEARS they warns people "next time get the real visa"

(instead of VE and preferable to get from you own country)

 

And for some reason people dont understand why...

That when you get the right visa you are screened and vetted from the Thai official consul and that satisfy them of proof of your situation and meet requirements  

 

Sorry, but really no excuse, we been reading it over and over on here people getting knocked back for VEs

[Just Weird]

8 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 11 years, I first came to Thailand in 2008 on a business visa. I then switched to an education Visa which I did for 7 years. During those years the rules kept changing until the final straw was i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous so i just stopped doing it. So I went to hcmc for a few months got a tourist visa and came back to Thailand, then I just did tourist visa's from there, went to hcmc a few times, then 4 times in Vientiane until i got a red stamp that read (this person travels to Thailand many times on a tourist visa). I never tried to get a tourist visa again.

So since late 2017 i was just flying in and out of the country every few months, I did this because getting a visa was just a hassle asking for permission to leave the country every time reporting all that and since i like to go to hcmc to see my friends there it was just easier to come in and out every two months, obviously not the cheapest route but i'm not exactly hard up financially. It worked for me.

So last week I fly to hcmc for 4 days and returned to Thailand, normally i use the fly thru but i was flying onward to a location in isaan that doesn't have the fly thru option (I didn't realise that till i got to Bangkok).

I fly into Don Muang with my good friend who traveled with me, he's only been in and out a few times and hasn't been living in Thailand as long as I have.

I'm from Australia, in my late 30's now and dressed normal new Adidas trainers decent clothes, If you've been here a long time you'd look at me and know i'm no English teacher nor do i look like I have no money, as if that has anything to do with anything.

So my mate goes first she goes through his passport intently then the lady pulls over her manager and he get's pulled aside, same thing happens to me.

They walked me past the immigration checkpoint to the right where they have a desk and a computer.

A short annoying tomboy officer raises her voice and says "why you in out so many times?"

I speak Thai pretty fluently at this point and reply in a demenour voice "oh it's because..." she cuts me off, you can't come in out all the time!! 

So i try to explain to her but she's just talks over me and walks away seemed pretty frustrated.

Meanwhile my mate is at the desk where the officer is asking him why he comes to Thailand and he's like for tourism. Asks if he has money, yes, he shows him 20,000 baht, does he have a return ticket, yes shows him.

Noone talks to me, noone asks me why, how much money i have, do i have return ticket nothing.

BTW my friend also speaks Thai very well though he just replies in English.

A lady walks out points at me and says "he works in vietnam!"

I contort my face cause i havn't had a job for 15 years, i don't need to work.

The walk away,

another 20 minutes pass guy comes back to his desk another lady comes out and says "send them back".

Another 15minutes pass and yet another lady comes out and we have to go with her, it's me my friend and a loation lady who is caught up in this mess also.

As we walk towards another immigration office further in the terminal I ask the lady, what's going on?

She explains that last year 2018 i spent more than 180 days in the country as a tourist and that's against the law.

I ask her what act i'm actually in violation of as I can't find that in the immigration act.

She says "because you need to look deeper"

Ok, but you are enforcing it you can't tell me what's the number so i can look it up.

Just more silence refuses to answer.

So we get into the room where there are several immigration officers who are copying details of our passports into the books as if i'm being charged at the police station.

One guy asks why i come in and out so much, I just say cause I go to see my friends in hcmc (sometimes i stay there for months).

No, you must have Visa! They exclaim.

I say i can enter the country 30 days without a visa what's the problem?

No, you must have Visa!

I'm done arguing.

An Air Asia representative enters the room to sign the papers also, which made me realize at that point i'm not getting in to Thailand, but also made me start thinking that what they are signing is probably to expunge their responsibility for bringing me their. 

Paperwork is done, they ask me to sign.

I pick up the paper and try to go sit down, he snatches it out of my hand and says "No, you must sign"

I say in Thai "i'm not signing anything until I read it first".

They seem a bit shocked that i can read thai.

It basically was saying that I acknowledge all responsibility and that I agree to be held in the detention center. LMAO

I say in Thai again "I've done absolutely nothing wrong, their is nothing to say that i can't come in an out of the country many times, and if that were the case then it's Air Asia's responsibility for bringing me here knowing full well I'll be denied entry"

The Air Asia representative had a shocked look on his face.

The immigration officer says, OK don't sign sit down you go back to HCMC.

I say in Thai again, i'm not going to HCMC i don't even have a visa to go back there, i'll book a ticket an go wherever i want.

OK he says.

It's at this point I know the whole reason i'm being denied is just utter BS.

The air asia guys says come with me, we go outside the room and says "ok so where you want to go we can send you to phnom penh. I'm like whichever is the eariler flight siem reap or phnom penh.

so he asks for 5000 baht for the tickets lol, righteo whatever dude, here's the money go get the tickets.

So he goes gets the tickets comes back, we go into the immigration room they take some photos of us and hand us back the passport.

At this point i'm just glad to get away from those annoying c#ts.

Air Asia escort us up to to the international departure gates VIP style basically then says "enjoy your flight"

Me and my mate just laugh.

But here's the real kicker.

I open my passport and there's a stamp in there. It says the reason i was denied was "ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพ" i think the exact term means no subsistence or no way of supporting oneself, basically no money.

ummmmm but i had money my mate had money, money wasn't the real issue but it seems to me it's the only thing they can deny you entry for.

I wish I had opened my passport in the office i would have thrown my money on his desk, and told him he could keep it as he looks like he needs it more than i do.

Really annoying.

Can i get a visa, yeah i could have, well i'm going to have to now, just super annoying cause now i have to get a new passport before applying for it.

No money, what a joke.

Only reason i'm writing this is that i hope if someone reads this don't sign the damn paper, tell them you don't want to go in you'll buy a ticket out right now, i was lucky i flew with air asia as they have flights all the time and it was their responsibility to get me outta their.

Remember, Don't sign it! If you go to detention you have to pay for that privilege and your airline no longer has to help you out.

I'm also curious to know how many other people are being denied and getting stamped as having no money when you actually do.

What a joke, no wonder legitimate foreigners have difficulty sometimes due to people like the OP!...

 

"I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 11 years..."

"I then switched to an education Visa which I did for 7 years

"i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous..." 

"A short annoying tomboy officer..."

"I ask her what act i'm actually in violation of as I can't find that in the immigration act....Ok, but you are enforcing it you can't tell me what's the number so i can look it up".

"I say i can enter the country 30 days without a visa what's the problem?"

"...their is nothing to say that i can't come in an out of the country many times..."

"righteo whatever dude, here's the money go get the tickets".

"Me and my mate just laugh"

"I wish I had opened my passport in the office i would have thrown my money on his desk, and told him he could keep it as he looks like he needs it more than i do".

 

Well, you really don't have an attitude problem, do you? 

You also do not know much about the authority that the IOs have when faced with situations that you presented!

 

[Liverpudlian]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

That's probably why they suspect that you aren't a real tourist.

The other reason that they may have denied you entry is because you post messages on here that are 1417 words long. Anyone who does that should be banned.

 

A lot of times here spent counting words ? whats your day time hobby ??

Edited March 22, 2019 by Liverpudlian

[Vacuum]

1 minute ago, Liverpudlian said:

A lot of times here spent counting words ? whats tour day time hobby ??

Numbers?

[Liverpudlian]

2 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

What a joke, no wonder legitimate foreigners have difficulty sometimes due to people like the OP!...

 

"I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 11 years..."

"I then switched to an education Visa which I did for 7 years

"i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous..." 

"A short annoying tomboy officer..."

"I ask her what act i'm actually in violation of as I can't find that in the immigration act....Ok, but you are enforcing it you can't tell me what's the number so i can look it up".

"I say i can enter the country 30 days without a visa what's the problem?"

"...their is nothing to say that i can't come in an out of the country many times..."

"righteo whatever dude, here's the money go get the tickets".

"Me and my mate just laugh"

"I wish I had opened my passport in the office i would have thrown my money on his desk, and told him he could keep it as he looks like he needs it more than i do".

 

Well, you really don't have an attitude problem, do you? 

You also do not know much about the authority that the IOs have when faced with situations that you presented!

 

Ever tried taking things with a pinch of salt ?

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, Liverpudlian said:

A lot of times here spent counting words ?

Nah. Copy/paste into MS Word, then just look at the word count. Counting is for wimps.

[Liverpudlian]

2 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Nah. Copy/paste into MS Word, then just look at the word count. Counting is for wimps.

Your too macho for me , i'm off !!

[Vacuum]

31 minutes ago, KarlS said:

NONSENSE --  Millions of people use those airports without any problem.

Correct, but most of them are 'normal tourists' perhaps holidaying perhaps a few weeks/year.