‘Big firm’ blamed for the North’s smog nightmare

[vivid]

Wow....that thing looks BIG and manly.

Nice expression too.  

[Vacuum]

3 minutes ago, namatjira said:

Finally some solutions, funny how nobody on thai visa suggested this one....prayut has saved the north....leaf blowers.....

What are they going to do with them?

[lannarebirth]

4 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

What are they going to do with them?

They're used for blowing out grass fires. You can YouTube it.  They don't prevent fires though and that seems to be the bigger issue.

[robblok]

31 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

This is a very complex problem with no single solution.

I live in the mountains and I see three different types of burning going on. Corn waste is mainly burned in September - October which is when most of the mountain corn is harvested. I don't understand why they burn it, it has lots of uses, but old dogs and new tricks I suppose. We are not suffering much from corn waste burning in April.

The types of burning we get up here this time of year is; the clearing of new land or land that has been left unplanted for a season/seasons, and undergrowth burning, by mushroom foragers.

The land clearing is usually for corn planting and it makes a lot of smoke and it is, unfortunately necessary, if you are are a poor farmer clearing up some hillside. You can't haul away jungle growth by hand, and no machine can get there.

The last three years we have had a 2-month burning ban, and I have to say the landowners around us in our part of Chiang Rai, do observe the ban, and there is almost no burning by farmers on farmland. The farmers in this area seem truly afraid of even lighting trash fires. People know whose land is whose, so if they burn, it can be traced back to them.

The folks who are burning at this time of year and getting away with it are the mushroom pickers. All they got to do is get an area of forest burning and run away, then come back some other day or night. Pretty hard to catch these guys.

 

It is easy to see the difference between the two types of burning.

Land clearing is done on land where the trees and brush are already felled and dry. These fires burn fast and hard, and there will be a handful of folks watching the boundaries and keeping it contained. 

Undergrowth burning happens in green forests and the trees remain standing. The fire mostly just burns the grasses and ground cover. These fires burn slow and meander around, they might burn for days. If you see smoke coming out of an area of trees, it's undergrowth burning.

All that considered, I honestly believe that at least 70 percent of the smoke is coming across the borders. I am certain that Burma and Laos allow farmland clearing at this time of year, while Thailand (officially) does not. Northern Thailand is surrounded by burning and the best solution would have to be an international effort. We never hear much about any international efforts though

That is because nobody will accept blame and do something about it. The Thais themselves have not solved their own problem and its hypocritical then to force others to do so. 

 

I doubt that the other countries listen to Thailand.  But your right its an international problem. 

 

From the news it looks as if its worse this year ? Is that media coverage or is it really worse ?

[rumak]

37 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

This is a very complex problem with no single solution.

I live in the mountains and I see three different types of burning going on. Corn waste is mainly burned in September - October which is when most of the mountain corn is harvested. I don't understand why they burn it, it has lots of uses, but old dogs and new tricks I suppose. We are not suffering much from corn waste burning in April.

The types of burning we get up here this time of year is; the clearing of new land or land that has been left unplanted for a season/seasons, and undergrowth burning, by mushroom foragers.

The land clearing is usually for corn planting and it makes a lot of smoke and it is,

Sounds like you are affected by smoke for at least 6 months of the year.  How long have you been living where you do?   I am interested if you have any thoughts or plan to move elsewhere?   I have been in N. Thailand better part of 30 years.  It is my observation that this year the pollution has lasted much longer than any time i can remember.   Does have me thinking about the future

[rumak]

22 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

What are they going to do with them?

blow a lot of hot air ...

[villagefarang]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

That is because nobody will accept blame and do something about it. The Thais themselves have not solved their own problem and its hypocritical then to force others to do so. 

 

I doubt that the other countries listen to Thailand.  But your right its an international problem. 

 

From the news it looks as if its worse this year ? Is that media coverage or is it really worse ?

It is definitely bad this year and in my area probably the worst I have seen.  The media is not exaggerating or making it up.

[sawadee1947]

7 hours ago, hansnl said:

Rather stupid to blame the buyer of the crops, while the farmers burn the remains of former crops without any care for the people.

Why don't they just plow the remains under, seems to be better for the land also.

For burning you need only one person, but for plowing a tractor at least. Too costly. 

Thais are a "don't care" Society 

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

That is because nobody will accept blame and do something about it. The Thais themselves have not solved their own problem and its hypocritical then to force others to do so. 

 

I doubt that the other countries listen to Thailand.  But your right its an international problem. 

 

From the news it looks as if its worse this year ? Is that media coverage or is it really worse ?

It's the worst I have seen.

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, rumak said:

Sounds like you are affected by smoke for at least 6 months of the year.  How long have you been living where you do?   I am interested if you have any thoughts or plan to move elsewhere?   I have been in N. Thailand better part of 30 years.  It is my observation that this year the pollution has lasted much longer than any time i can remember.   Does have me thinking about the future

The smoke at corn harvest time is not very bad. The dry season smoke starts getting serious at the end of February and March is usually the peak.

The last three years were not very bad, Last year was very slight. I began to think the hazardous smoke was a thing of the past.

[Sealbash]

Having lived and have experienced the haze (smoke) in both Singapore and Malaysia. The majority of this pollution comes from Indonesia. It is totally possible that a sizable portion of the smoke in Thailand is also caused by burning in neighboring countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

53 minutes ago, Sealbash said:

Having lived and have experienced the haze (smoke) in both Singapore and Malaysia. The majority of this pollution comes from Indonesia. It is totally possible that a sizable portion of the smoke in Thailand is also caused by burning in neighboring countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

It's clearly a transnational issue, with much of the smoke appearing to be centered on both sides of the Thai-Myanmar border... But there also have been plenty of reports from Northern Thailand area locals here on the forum reporting plenty of local burning in the areas where they live.

 

[Sealbash]

 

It's clearly a transnational issue, with much of the smoke appearing to be centered on both sides of the Thai-Myanmar border... But there also have been plenty of reports from Northern Thailand area locals here on the forum reporting plenty of local burning in the areas where they live.

 

Absolutely agree. Is is an ASEAN issue that needs regional solutions. Rather than attempting to place all blame on Thailand’s government or citizens.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Sealbash said:

Absolutely agree. Is is an ASEAN issue that needs regional solutions. Rather than attempting to place all blame on Thailand’s government or citizens.

 

 

Thailand is a sizable contributor to the problem. They have it in their power to deal with their part of the problem, and they've done nothing.  So how are they going to ask Laos or Myanmar to do any better....

 

Talk about regional solutions in ASEAN is usually just a cop out excuse for having nothing get done at all.

 

\

[ttrd]

RE -  ‘Big firm’ blamed for the North’s smog nightmare

 

Did it really take a century to find the source of the problem ... ? ...

[Bournville]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

"And a big firm buys corn from these farmers. This firm should show responsibility,” Chaicharn said. 

 

Un believable! This Thai government is useless! 

 

[assayer]

17 hours ago, hotchilli said:

They are not burning the remains of the crop after harvesting the corn, the burning takes place prior to harvesting which gets rid of the outer leaves from the stems which makes the process easier !

Sorry, you have the sugar cane crops and the corn crops mixed up. Sugar cane is burned prior to harvesting, but corn is burned after harvesting.

 

[assayer]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's clearly a transnational issue, with much of the smoke appearing to be centered on both sides of the Thai-Myanmar border... But there also have been plenty of reports from Northern Thailand area locals here on the forum reporting plenty of local burning in the areas where they live.

 

If you simply follow the country boundary outlines on your map you can plainly see that most of the fires are within the Thai lines.

[ozmeldo]

And yet none of you have plans to leave the country so it's just howling at the moon.

[Dante99]

22 hours ago, cmsally said:

The farmers buy the seed , fertilisers, pesticide from the company. They then sell the harvest back to the company. Often you have middlemen handling any loans too.

The company would be well aware that there is no budget for machinery or labour intensive clearing.

If they cared for the environment why would they concentrate on driving production to areas with the cheapest costs and no regulation. The only concern is what goes in their pockets at the end of the day.

Or does the company give the farmers the seed, fertilizers and pesticide as part of a contract which includes purchasing the crop?  This is kind of arrangement does happen.

[cmsally]

15 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Or does the company give the farmers the seed, fertilizers and pesticide as part of a contract which includes purchasing the crop?  This is kind of arrangement does happen.

CP maize contract farming in Shan State, Myanmar: A regional case of a place-based corporate agro-feed system

 

An excellent piece of research, well worth reading.

[Lucius verus]

The only way to stop the farmers is to stop the buyer.

Most likely the buyer is a dark influence.

Huge profits always come first.

Environment last.

[rickudon]

What has not been mentioned, is that growing maize on steep slopes makes them very vulnerable to soil erosion. Mountains should be covered in trees, not maize. Give it another 10 years and erosion will be the issue rather than burning. And reclaiming eroded hills and mountains is no easy task. 

[HaleySabai]

On 4/2/2019 at 6:21 AM, gunderhill said:

Which of  course  cannot  be  named, what a screwed up  country.

Let me give you a hint through this pseudo-acronym.....Corporate Pollution...got it?

[gunderhill]

2 minutes ago, HaleySabai said:

psydo-acronym

 A  new one to me,  guess u mean pseudo.

[scorecard]

On 4/2/2019 at 8:26 AM, Zack61 said:

The company could however take an ethical stance and buy only from farmers who did not burn. They do have a responsibility in this sense to source their product from a responsible, sustainable source. Corporations cannot abdicate their responsibilities as easy as you suggest. 

I wish that was the reality.

[greeneking]

1 hour ago, HaleySabai said:

Let me give you a hint through this pseudo-acronym.....Corporate Pollution...got it?

Chalerm could not have supplied better initials!  Then he would threaten to go and get them. Oh, they're rich people....better just leave them alone to get even richer then.

Hope they pay lots of taxes so the poor can go to hospitals and get an education for their children so they can make Thailand more responsible in the future.

Can't wait for the 'good' people to do it.

[johnnykak]

you better not name that company or you will be sued for defamation. this is thailand.

[ttrd]

4 minutes ago, johnnykak said:

you better not name that company or you will be sued for defamation. this is thailand.

Yeah - Defamation in Thailand is near equal to drug charges ...

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/defamation-in-thailand-natural-fruits-corporation-vs-andy-hall/

[kekalot]

On 4/2/2019 at 2:49 AM, webfact said:

The amount of PM2.5 – particulate matter no more than 2.5 millimetres in diameter

PM2.5 is 2.5 micrometers = 0.0025mm not 2.5 millimetres (0.25 centimeter)

they are only 1000x off