Do you believe in God and why

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

Tell that to the millions of Jews and other people who were killed by hitler.

An excellent novel "The Last of the Just"

 

By Henri Shwarz-Bart explores these issues..

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_the_Just

Edited April 24, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Sunmaster]

I

11 minutes ago, jvs said:

Tell that to the millions of Jews and other people who were killed by hitler.

The same goes for all others that were killed throughout the ages. Jews don't have the monopoly on being victims of free choice.

[Skeptic7]

47 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I

The same goes for all others that were killed throughout the ages. Jews don't have the monopoly on being victims of free choice.

That's the point. FREE CHOICE??? Where's the 'free choice'? Where's these murdered people's god-given free will? Where's the children born with brain cancer or leukemia's free will or choice? Or the kidnapped child that is raped, tortured and brutally murdered? Where's their god-given free will? Or the thousands of children that die from malnutrition on a daily basis?

 

FREE CHOICE?!?

 

Or are you saying only the monsters have the 'free choice'? Not the victims? ONLY The monsters...just like the monsters that are all the non-existent deities. Christian, Muslim and Jewish and many of the others. 

 

Day to day life is dangerous. Disease, famine, natural weather events. Crossing the street, driving, selfies! Wild animals, insects, and the most dangerous wild animal of them all...Humans. Imperfect, many cruel and mentally damaged, jealous, mean, vengeful, prideful and out of control. 

 

Wake up and smell the BS! 

[Odysseus123]

"wake up and smell the BS!"

 

Actually..I don't think so my good man..after all you are nothing but an internet "spirit" are you not?

 

I would be utterly disinclined to follow any exhortation issued by 'someone" or "something" on the internet.

 

One could ponder the fact whether you are real or not..are you real?

Edited April 24, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Skeptic7]

4 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

"wake up and smell the BS!"

 

Actually..I don't think so my good man..after all you are nothing but an internet "spirit" are you not?

 

I would be utterly disinclined to follow any exhortation issued by 'someone" or "something" on the internet.

 

One could ponder the fact whether you are real or not..are you real?

Are you FOR real?!? 

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Are you FOR real?!? 

Obviously dude..

 

What..have you been caught out in your splendiferous intergalactic proclamations?

Funny thing about the internet-cloaca flows both ways..

Edited April 24, 2019 by Odysseus123

[ballpoint]

3 hours ago, transam said:

One does wonder if some posters are smoking weed...????

Or turning too much water into wine.

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Or turning too much water into wine.

Or..it's all in good fun..

 

Mighty empires will not rise,dominate or fall by what we post here-neither will any powerful intellectual movements by the looks of it

 

 

[Naam]

20 hours ago, Enki said:

Actually when I came to Thailand to meet my GF the first time (we obviously "met" via internet) I brought her a silver Thors hammer. She is wearing it every thursday/Thorsday (and she is a teacher in a christian private school, the christians obviously don't know what it is, quite funny)

do you think Buddhists, Muslims or Hindus know?

[Naam]

4 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I absolutely don't!

I used to be atheist until about 22 years old, when I experienced a spontaneous kundalini release. I had no idea what it was, but it changed my life. After that experience, I started reading all sorts of books, researching religions, studying philosophy, psychology, metaphysics, science, sociology and and and,...  trying to somehow make sense of it all. 
What I say here is a mixture of my personal experience and my studies, and has very little to do with organized religions.


PS: I probably dislike religion just as much as you guys do.

i have a kundalini awakening whenever my female dog farts.

[Naam]

4 hours ago, transam said:

Well I thought a couple of fish and loaves of bread fed thousands at a Jesus meeting..Was that not intervention...?

anybody can do the fish and bread trick. it's the water to wine trick that's difficult.

[Skeptic7]

11 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Obviously dude..

 

What..have you been caught out in your splendiferous intergalactic proclamations?

Funny thing about the internet-cloaca flows both ways..

Solipsism is the same lame, inane idea as supernatural deities. So is the brain-in-a-vat thought experiment. However...you know all this already. 

 

Interesting choice of words...cloaca. Having studied a fair bit of ornithology, it is not lost on me. Never heard it quite applied in this way. I give you a ???? for that one, if a bit of a head-scratcher! ????

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

i have a kundalini awakening whenever my female dog farts.

Really?

 

Splendid dog!

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Solipsism is the same lame, inane idea as supernatural deities. So is the brain-in-a-vat thought experiment. However...you know all this already. 

 

Interesting choice of words...cloaca. Having studied a fair bit of ornithology, it is not lost on me. Never heard it quite applied in this way. I give you a ???? for that one, if a bit of a head-scratcher! ????

Cloaca?

Well.it's latin.

 

You ain'tt trying om carry on an intelligent conversation about God in English are you?They haven't tried that since the Middle Ages..

 

Latin..

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Cloaca?

Well.it's latin.

 

You ain'tt trying om carry on an intelligent conversation about God in English are you?They haven't tried that since the Middle Ages..

Haven't you seen the Exorcist? When God speaks he speaks in tongues.

 

Which is why, when I speak in tongues, my wife says, "Oh my God!" followed by loud moaning and groaning which I'm unable to translate but I think it's a positive.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Spidey

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Haven't you seen the Exorcist? When God speaks he speaks in tongues.

 

Which is why, when I speak in tongues, my wife says, "Oh my God!"

'No she doesn't..

 

I can translate it for you..

 

Visa number..7806 6452 7201. exp date 10/2021..

Edited April 24, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Nyezhov]

13 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

 

It is sexist to use the masculine pronoun when referring to God! Shame!

I worship Nohm Suai - the modern silicone Godess.????

My dream goddess

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

My dream goddess

Another one who just repeats his credit or debit card...

 

Who dreams 'em up?

Who pays for them?

Or do the lazy layabouts just exist in the internet "netherworld"?

 

Sans..corporeal identity?

[geoffbezoz]

12 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

My dream goddess

You met the wife then ?

[ballpoint]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Haven't you seen the Exorcist? When God speaks he speaks in tongues.

 

Which is why, when I speak in tongues, my wife says, "Oh my God!" followed by loud moaning and groaning which I'm unable to translate but I think it's a positive.

 

 

You cunning linguist.

[OmegaRacer]

3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

That's the point. FREE CHOICE??? Where's the 'free choice'? Where's these murdered people's god-given free will? Where's the children born with brain cancer or leukemia's free will or choice? Or the kidnapped child that is raped, tortured and brutally murdered? Where's their god-given free will? Or the thousands of children that die from malnutrition on a daily basis?

 

FREE CHOICE?!?

 

Or are you saying only the monsters have the 'free choice'? Not the victims? ONLY The monsters...just like the monsters that are all the non-existent deities. Christian, Muslim and Jewish and many of the others. 

 

Day to day life is dangerous. Disease, famine, natural weather events. Crossing the street, driving, selfies! Wild animals, insects, and the most dangerous wild animal of them all...Humans. Imperfect, many cruel and mentally damaged, jealous, mean, vengeful, prideful and out of control. 

 

Wake up and smell the BS! 

I understand what you're saying and I see why you would think the whole "system" is unfair.

 

It depends on the point of view I think. If you consider humans to be victims of circumstances, of their environment where they randomly happen to grow up, of the social and financial status of their families and more importantly, victims of the limited time they are allowed to exist.....then your reasoning is very justified.

On the other hand, if we assume we have a soul or eternal consciousness that is only bound by time for a very short period while incarnated, then we gain a much wider perspective of our life (or lives).

Like Shakespeare said "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages."

We are like actors who chose to play a role for a limited time on earth, forgetting that we are actors. When the curtain falls, we awaken from the dream. We may have played the roles of enemies on stage, but behind it, we turn back to be best friends, because we know it was all a play. 
All the suffering, the struggles and heartaches will drop away just like a nightmare dissolves quickly upon waking up.

You say life is dangerous, it sure is. But it's also amazingly beautiful, full of adventures and things to learn.
You say there are terrible people out there, absolutely true. But the vast majority of people are just like you and me, struggling to live this life the best way we can, with our ups and downs, stumbling sometimes, making mistakes, but still going forward.

You have the free choice to change your point of view if you want to. Isn't that amazing?

Edited April 24, 2019 by OmegaRacer

[Skeptic7]

3 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

I understand what you're saying and I see why you would thing the whole "system" is unfair.

 

It depends on the point of view I think. If you consider humans to be victims of circumstances, of their environment where they randomly happen to grow up, of the social and financial status of their families and more importantly, victims of the limited time they are allowed to exist.....then your reasoning is very justified.

On the other hand, if we assume we have a soul or eternal consciousness that is only bound by time for a very short period while incarnated, then we gain a much wider perspective of our life (or lives).

Like Shakespeare said "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages."

We are like actors who chose to play a role for a limited time on earth, forgetting that we are actors. When the curtain falls, we awaken from the dream. We may have played the roles of enemies on stage, but behind it, we turn back to be best friends, because we know it was all a play. 
All the suffering, the struggles and heartaches will drop away just like a nightmare dissolves quickly upon waking up.

You say life is dangerous, it sure is. But it's also amazingly beautiful, full of adventures and things to learn.
You say there are terrible people out there, absolutely true. But the vast majority of people are just like you and me, struggling to live this life the best way we can, with our ups and downs, stumbling sometimes, making mistakes, but still going forward.

You have the free choice to change your point of view if you want to. Isn't that amazing?

No.

 

Don't find willful ignorance and/or belief in ridiculous things with no good reason, "amazing". Actually find it woefully pitiful. 

 

 

[geoffbezoz]

And as this thread appears to have become argumentative, a bit of enlightenment.

"Excuse me, Lord."
"Is that you again, Moses?"
"I am afraid it is, Lord."
"What is it this time, Moses; more computer problems?"
"How did you guess?"
"I do not have to guess, Moses. Remember?"
"Oh, yes; I forgot."
"Tell me what you want, Moses."
"But you already know; remember?"
"Moses!"
"Sorry, Lord."
"Well, go ahead, Moses; say it."
"Well, I have a question, Lord. You know those 'ten things' you sent me?"
"You mean the Ten Commandments, Moses?"
" Yes. I was wondering if they were important."
"What do you mean 'important,' Moses? Of course, they are important. Otherwise, I would not have sent them to you."
"Well sorry, Lord, but I lost them. I could say the dog ate them; but, of course, you would see right through that."
"What do you mean 'you lost them'? Are you trying to tell me you did
not save them, Moses?"
"No, Lord; I forgot."
"You should always save, Moses."
"Yes, I know. You told me that before. I was going to, but I forgot. I did send them to some people before I lost them though."
"And did you hear back from any of those people?"
"You already know I did. What about the one guy who said he never uses 'shalt not'? Is it all right if he changes the words a little bit?"
"Yes, Moses, as long as he does not change the meaning."
"And what about the guy who thought your stance was a little harsh, and recommended calling them the 'Ten Suggestions' or letting people pick one or two to try for a while?"
"Moses, I will pretend I did not hear that."
"I think that means 'no'. Well, what about the guy who said I was scamming him?"
"I think the term is 'spamming,' Moses."
"Oh, yes. I emailed him back and told him I don't even eat that stuff, and I have no idea how you can send it to someone through a computer."
"And what did he say?"
"You know what he said. He used Your name in vain. You don't think he might have sent me one of those er plagues, and that's the reason I lost those "ten things", do you?"
"They are called 'viruses,' Moses."
"Whatever! This computer stuff is just too much for me. Can we just go back to those stone tablets? It was hard on my back taking them out and reading them each day, but at least I never lost them."
"We will do it the new way, Moses."
"I was afraid you would say that, Lord."
"Moses, what did I tell you to do if you messed up?"
"You told me to hold up this rat and stretch it out toward the computer."
"It's a mouse, Moses. Mouse! Mouse! And did you do that?"
"No, I decided to call technical support first. After all, who knows more about this stuff than you, and I really like your hours. By the way, Lord, did Noah have two of these mice on the ark?"
"No, Moses."
"One other thing. Why did you not name them 'frogs' instead of 'mice', because did you not tell me the thing they sit on is a pad?"
"I did not name them, Moses. Man did, and you can call yours a frog if you want to."
"Oh, that explains it. Kind of like Adam, huh, Lord? I bet some woman told him to call it a mouse. After all, was it not a woman who named one of the computers Apple?"
"Say good night, Moses."
"Wait a minute, Lord. I am stretching out the mouse, and it seems to be working. Yes, a couple of the 'ten things' have come back."
"Which ones are they, Moses?"
"Let me see. 'Thou shalt not steal from any grave an image' and 'Thou shalt not uncover thy neighbor's wife.'"
"Turn the computer off, Moses. I'm sending you another set of stone tablets."

 

 

[sweatalot]

24 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

I understand what you're saying and I see why you would think the whole "system" is unfair.

 

It depends on the point of view I think. If you consider humans to be victims of circumstances, of their environment where they randomly happen to grow up, of the social and financial status of their families and more importantly, victims of the limited time they are allowed to exist.....then your reasoning is very justified.

On the other hand, if we assume we have a soul or eternal consciousness that is only bound by time for a very short period while incarnated, then we gain a much wider perspective of our life (or lives).

Like Shakespeare said "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages."

We are like actors who chose to play a role for a limited time on earth, forgetting that we are actors. When the curtain falls, we awaken from the dream. We may have played the roles of enemies on stage, but behind it, we turn back to be best friends, because we know it was all a play. 
All the suffering, the struggles and heartaches will drop away just like a nightmare dissolves quickly upon waking up.

You say life is dangerous, it sure is. But it's also amazingly beautiful, full of adventures and things to learn.
You say there are terrible people out there, absolutely true. But the vast majority of people are just like you and me, struggling to live this life the best way we can, with our ups and downs, stumbling sometimes, making mistakes, but still going forward.

You have the free choice to change your point of view if you want to. Isn't that amazing?

one thing to believe this or something similar

another thing to experience it

- only then can you really be free

[jvs]

5 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I

The same goes for all others that were killed throughout the ages. Jews don't have the monopoly on being victims of free choice.

Yes of course you are right but i was referring to a previous post made br Transam.

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

You met the wife then ?

More than once Big Dog, more than once ????

 

[nausea]

Basically, it doesn't really matter. Whether God exists or not changes nothing, for your individual moral decisions. Making a decision so you'll get everlasting happiness, is no different from the bankrobber getting a short-term gain from his crime.

[Sunmaster]

13 hours ago, nausea said:

Basically, it doesn't really matter. Whether God exists or not changes nothing, for your individual moral decisions. Making a decision so you'll get everlasting happiness, is no different from the bankrobber getting a short-term gain from his crime.

Right, I know there's something bigger than me, but I don't base my decisions out of fear for being punished or for some kind of reward. 
Any action should be based in love, promoting and supporting life.
You don't need to believe in God to follow such a simple guideline.

[mauGR1]

15 hours ago, nausea said:

Basically, it doesn't really matter. Whether God exists or not changes nothing, for your individual moral decisions. Making a decision so you'll get everlasting happiness, is no different from the bankrobber getting a short-term gain from his crime.

I think that growing vegetables or singing songs is better than robbing a bank, but to each his own.

Every action is a little seed that evolves to create and shape the future.

[55Jay]

On 4/24/2019 at 1:03 PM, Sunmaster said:

Another thing to think about...

For those who only believe what is rational, measurable and "categorizable".
Do you think love exists? Do you feel it for your family members, friends, pets etc?
If you say yes, how can you prove it exists? 
Can you measure its length, weigh it, tell me what color it is?
You can't. You can only describe it in very limiting words, because it's a personal experience. You can describe it by telling me the consequences of loving. Yet, when you describe it, others who feel the same can relate to it and understand what you're saying.

Now let's take it a step further. 
God, Spirit, the Universal Force is by definition the ultimate Force, infinite Love, the converging point of all that is Good, True and Beautiful. 
That's why I find it funny when people ask "Which God?". God, the way I see it, is non-dual, the Gods you're talking about are simply different manifestations of the ONE. They are ways to describe the undescribeable, to put into form/words something that is beyond form and words. Hence, those (human!) descriptions will always be imperfect and create imperfect/faulty understanding.

Our life's goal as a human species, ought to be to expand our ability to love. First we love our parents, our family, then friends, then spouse, then children, some love their country (this is were most people stop), but also YOURSELF, Mother Earth, all living beings and so on, up to feeling love for God itself.

Thanks, Dr. Phil.

 

This is the slippery slope the "find thyself" spiritual mongers surf on.   Create and exploit doubt, fill the gap with the prescribed word salad from the Jesus Incorporated handbook about how to live your life according to "Him who is He".  They try to pass themselves off as neutral, "all we need is love" hippies, but they're no different to the religious pimps.