Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, Hummin said:

and I just can not understand anyone have the right to demand this thread dead who nearly have participated to soon 16 000 posts, with very little moderation and no admin threatening to stop it. 

 

Amen.

[save the frogs]

8 hours ago, xylophone said:

And of course there are the "godly" institutions

I was raised in the catholic church, but let me tell you man I got out of there at a fairly young age. 

We actually had one priest come in once and had us repeat loudly repeatedly "we are stinkers!"

It was quite comical. 

 

The bible is not complete bs. Depends how you make use of it. 

 

'Garden of Eden' can represent peace of mind.

'Snake in the grass' can represent any number of things which disrupt our peace of mind.

For me, the daily news which is full of negativity is one such snake in the grass that saps my peace of mind.

In fact, the news outlets are doing it on purpose. They bombard us with negativity. 

We were warned in the bible about snakes in the grass. 

And I try to stay away from those threads on this forum. 

But those threads are constantly full of replies and no one wants those to be shut down.

 

Was Jesus a fictional character? I'm not even sure. Maybe he was. 

But some of his quotes might still be useful. 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by save the frogs

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I was raised in the catholic church, but let me tell you man I got out of there at a fairly young age. 

We actually had one priest come in once and had us repeat loudly repeatedly "we are stinkers!"

It was quite comical. 

 

The bible is not complete bs. Depends how you make use of it. 

 

'Garden of Eden' can represent peace of mind.

'Snake in the grass' can represent any number of things which disrupt our peace of mind.

For me, the daily news which is full of negativity is one such snake in the grass that saps my peace of mind.

In fact, the news outlets are doing it on purpose. They bombard us with negativity. 

We were warned in the bible about snakes in the grass. 

And I try to stay away from those threads on this forum. 

But those threads are constantly full of replies and no one wants those to be shut down.

 

Was Jesus a fictional character? I'm not even sure. Maybe he was. 

But some of his quotes might still be useful. 

 

 

Excellent post.

[Woof999]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I'm working on a drawing that (I hope) can illustrate some concepts that are forming in my mind. I won't post pictures of the actual work for now, but I'd like to share a few details of the concepts to get them out there and maybe with the help of your feedback, fine-tune them.

The following concepts are nothing new, but I will expand them further to include even wider ideas and their implications.

So, this is us. Sitting on a tiny island (the tip of the iceberg - our conscious mind), interacting with the material world through our ego and our outer senses. Underneath the waterline is our subconscious....that mysterious, messy realm we are being told is there, but have no real knowledge of it. Most of us, at least.

Most of us spend our lives concentrating on what can be perceived by the 5 outer senses. Every last bit of energy is used to explore, interact and make sense of this world. That's what we were taught from the moment we are born as a way to secure our survival in this world. Most people never venture under the waterline. We are not taught to explore this territory, which is a part of us, just like the visible iceberg tip. 

There is fear involved when it comes to diving down into the dark and unknown waters of the subconscious, and the automatic responses to this fear are denial, ridicule, anger and aggression. We have plenty of examples of that in this thread.
In a sense, I would say that everything beneath the waterline is commonly labeled as "spiritual". In its widest sense though, the term "spiritual" would also include the material world. 

Now, as I mentioned in a previous post, for some reason some people are attracted to the subconscious and seek to explore and understand it. To do this there is a plethora of tools available: from psychology and psychotherapy, to art therapy, dreamwork, all kinds of New Age workshops, shamanism, entheogenic substances, religion (prayer, contemplation), spirituality (yoga/meditation) and many many more.
Not all tools are created equal and their effectiveness varies greatly. 
What they all have in common though, is the fact that they recognize this hidden part of man and set out to explore it. 

Thoughts so far?
 

I kind of understand the concept. My immediate first 2 thoughts are:

 

1.) Why do you label the conscious mind as ego?

 

2.) Science does not appear in any of your tools, yet it has played a huge part in our understanding of both the physical world and the abilities of our brains.

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Woof999 said:

I kind of understand the concept. My immediate first 2 thoughts are:

 

1.) Why do you label the conscious mind as ego?

 

2.) Science does not appear in any of your tools, yet it has played a huge part in our understanding of both the physical world and the abilities of our brains.

Thank you for your reply.

 

1) Yes, you're right. They are not the same. The conscious mind is the operating system, while the ego is a program in this OS, so to speak. I should have made this distinction more evident. 

 

2) You mean the tools used to explore the subconscious mind? Psychology and Psychotherapy are scientific disciplines, although classified as soft science.

Are you referring to tools offered by the hard sciences?

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Sunmaster

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/18/2023 at 2:36 PM, mauGR1 said:

Interesting, i have heard respected masters talking about Ireland as a special place.

Can you say something more about your experience?

Not much to say. I visited it as a famous historical site with an abbey that was destroyed by Henry 8th ( may he rot in hell ). All that remains is ruins. It was the first Cistercian foundation in Ireland and built in 1142. As it's far from any town or city, and not easy to get to, I think the founders knew it was a special place to build there.

Other than the ruins there was a hostel, which is now an information center. Otherwise surrounded by farmland.

The moment I arrived I knew the place was special because of the vibe. I experienced a feeling of deep peace and serenity.

The hostel was for sale and had I been able I'd have bought it, so I could live there, but not to be.

I've experienced a few special places around the world, but none that were so spiritual as that place.

 

If you ever visit Ireland try and visit it, but you'd need transport, as I doubt any bus service goes there ( dead end and no population ).

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Woof999 said:

I kind of understand the concept. My immediate first 2 thoughts are:

 

1.) Why do you label the conscious mind as ego?

 

2.) Science does not appear in any of your tools, yet it has played a huge part in our understanding of both the physical world and the abilities of our brains.

Science is too primitive to understand spirituality, which is beyond the physical realm.

Science can't even bring world peace and is heavily involved in making weapons to kill people.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Was Jesus a fictional character? I'm not even sure. Maybe he was. 

But some of his quotes might still be useful. 

Apparently the Romans left records about him, so real person.

 

His sayings are all useful, if one wants to understand them.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Science is too primitive to understand spirituality, which is beyond the physical realm.

Science can't even bring world peace and is heavily involved in making weapons to kill people.

Yep, but give people cheap technology, and they will conveniently forget that.

Of course, some here would say that I'm "dismissing " science,  which is not true.

It's true that science can be a terrible weapon if controlled by the wrong people. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/18/2023 at 2:43 PM, Sunmaster said:

I think the Earth has energy lines with hotspots (concentrated energy area) and cold spots (areas where you feel uneasy), similar to the energy lines in our bodies (nadis, chakras, acupuncture points).
I also believe that a place can absorb psychic energy, especially when it's coupled with strong emotions/intentions.

I found such a place when I visited the amazing underground "Temples of Humankind" in Damanhur, north of Italy. If you are ever in Italy, I wholeheartedly recommend visiting Damanhur. Even as an atheist/materialist, one can not remain unperturbed by the sheer beauty of it.
Video documentary here.

Likewise, any place of worship will absorb or be imprinted with the thought patterns of the people there.

 

 

I agree with what you say, but I think the abbey was built there because it was already a spiritual place, rather than becoming one because of the monks.

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Science is too primitive to understand spirituality, which is beyond the physical realm.

Science can't even bring world peace and is heavily involved in making weapons to kill people.

The main problem with spiritually is without prober non biased guidance you get a chaos. You get a tremendous number of different fraction of belief systems who claim they know the truth and they are the only one. 

 

Most people are followers with very few true leaders, and I think we know the results by now. Yes science is primitive compared to nature, and as well using science to understand nature, but, it is a continuous developing tool that is learning by doing.

 

To many distractions everywhere is a problem for both, be it spiritually and science, and still ego is one of the main problems to conquer for both.

 

Science and spiritually belongs together, not seperated.

[The Old Bull]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:27 PM, mauGR1 said:

We can't understand the concept of infinite, we can't understand lots of other things.

I think it's logical to think there are superior beings, and an intelligent design.

You don't throw around randomly screws and bolts and metal planks to build an airplane, right ?

People who mock God, mock something they don't understand.

People invent gods to explain what they don't understand. When leaders cannot explain things to the peasants they cannot admit to their own ignorance so they need gods as an excuse.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

People invent gods to explain what they don't understand. When leaders cannot explain things to the peasants they cannot admit to their own ignorance so they need gods as an excuse.

We can agree that the leaders try to exert control on the masses by any useful means.

It was undoubtedly religion in the past, now it seems to be mostly science and technology. 

[Sunmaster]

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The main problem with spiritually is without prober non biased guidance you get a chaos. You get a tremendous number of different fraction of belief systems who claim they know the truth and they are the only one. 

 

Most people are followers with very few true leaders, and I think we know the results by now. Yes science is primitive compared to nature, and as well using science to understand nature, but, it is a continuous developing tool that is learning by doing.

 

To many distractions everywhere is a problem for both, be it spiritually and science, and still ego is one of the main problems to conquer for both.

 

Science and spiritually belongs together, not seperated.

In reality you don't really need external guidance to find out who you are. You know best, but you need to know how to do it. 

If spirituality is diving into the subconscious and beyond, then a very simple breathing technique (pranayama) can help you to get there.

 

I think it's all much simpler and more self evident than we imagine it to be.

[Hummin]

44 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

People invent gods to explain what they don't understand. When leaders cannot explain things to the peasants they cannot admit to their own ignorance so they need gods as an excuse.

People create gods also based on their feelings and experiences. 

 

Camping out in nature without any distractions and time to feel, see and observe, can give you great experiences, and if you add being in survival mode as many people used to live in for longer periods of time, you can understand the creativity behind it, when all senses working on overload.

 

I had a taste of it when pushing my limits in extreme sports being on the edge of life and death, and also camping out there in no mans land alone, it makes you more sensitive to energies, and gives better access to your brain. Alot of experiences is chemical based in my opinion, of course maybe in interactions with surrounding energies, I do not know, but it feels like it. Some places I instantly feel is bad, as well I sense bad people, I can not explain why, and I can not tell if my feelings is true, but Im sure it have saved my life more than one time, especially standing on the edge, deciding to walk away, and not jump that day, even everything seemed to be perfect.

 

A few times I did not join a group for a jump, because I had a bad feeling, and someone died that day, as well I had a bad feeling about something bad would happen, which I believed was to me, and I conquered my feelings and a friend of me died on that jump. Coincidence or real? I will never know for sure.

 

Mental ill people often have periodically strong experiences, and is regarded as crazy, maybe they see something we do not see? 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hummin

[Hummin]

36 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

In reality you don't really need external guidance to find out who you are. You know best, but you need to know how to do it. 

If spirituality is diving into the subconscious and beyond, then a very simple breathing technique (pranayama) can help you to get there.

 

I think it's all much simpler and more self evident than we imagine it to be.

All I can say, everybody is not like you and me, and most people need help, and also guidance from someone who is real, and doing it for the right purposes. As mentioned, most people is distracted and need someone to guide them.

 

Most people living in  a a4 life, and complaining about everything and everyone, and they cant see they have every option layed out in front of them, but can not make the changes they need to do, to get out of their life situation. Instead without a coach, they continue the bad cycle doing the same they have done all their life.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hummin

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Mental ill people often have periodically strong experiences, and is regarded as crazy, maybe they see something we do not see? 

I would say yes.

In the tales of extreme climbers who have survived terrifying ordeals at high altitudes, the appearance of supernatural beings is often mentioned, the same goes with fasting and yoga techniques. 

As for mental illness, aren't we all feeling uncomfortable with the surroundings to some extent, sooner or later in life ?

And isn't true that the best way to discredit someone is to brand him as crazy ?

[Hummin]

20 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I would say yes.

In the tales of extreme climbers who have survived terrifying ordeals at high altitudes, the appearance of supernatural beings is often mentioned, the same goes with fasting and yoga techniques. 

As for mental illness, aren't we all feeling uncomfortable with the surroundings to some extent, sooner or later in life ?

And isn't true that the best way to discredit someone is to brand him as crazy ?

What is mental illnesses really? Isn't that often suppressing your own true feelings? 

 

I felt very strong about how we are treating the nature starting very young of age, and very sensitive to all wrongdoings, and still is, but I finely managed it by accepting it as human stupidity and the true nature of us. There is no other way around it, without become an activist or go mental.

 

I still can not believe people do not feel the same way as me, and do not see the same things as me, the same way, or nobody seems to really do care to talk about it, except those who sacrifice their  life to work against it, and become an activist. common sense it not a natural sense in my opinion, and in my experience.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hummin

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

What is mental illnesses really? Isn't that often suppressing your own true feelings? 

 

I felt very strong about how we are treating the nature starting very young of age, and very sensitive to all wrongdoings, and still is, but I finely managed it by accepting it as human stupidity snd the true nature of us. There is no other way around it without become an activist or go mental.

 

I still can not believe people do not feel the same way as me and see the same things as me, and nobody really do care to talk about it except those who sacrifice they life to work against it and become an activist. common sense it not a natural sense in my opinion, and in my experience.

We can agree on that, and I've had similar feelings since i was a kid.

However, as i don't like to be criticized for my own choices, i have to concede that others don't like it too. I'd wish I'd be right all the time,  but most likely I'm not.

On a spiritual level, if one has to transcend the wickedness of the material world, one has to learn to forgive the perceived wrongdoers, i think.

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

On a spiritual level, if one has to transcend the wickedness of the material world, one has to learn to forgive the perceived wrongdoers, i think.

Reminds me of something a poster asked here not too long ago. "Why do bad things happen to good people?"
This question only makes sense in the limited dualistic perception (right/wrong....good/bad).
Maybe a more appropriate question would be "Why do things happen to people?"....or even better "Why do things happen?". 
If we believe in some sort of soul or higher self, and if we believe that this soul has a much bigger overview of our 3D reality and other realities, then it would be logical to think that this soul is always aware that part of it is incarnated in 3D and knows that it chose to forget its identity during the incarnation (us). The soul also knows that it chose this setup as a way to act out various scenarios with the intention of learning or perfecting attributes such as compassion and tolerance.
All this is to say that in this light, there are neither wrongdoers nor victims. All souls have chosen to be incarnated and agreed to go through the life experiences they are living. This time around they may play the aggressor, next time they may be the victim, just so they can appreciate the energy dynamics from different points of view.
 

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

All this is to say that in this light, there are neither wrongdoers nor victims. All souls have chosen to be incarnated and agreed to go through the life experiences they are living. This time around they may play the aggressor...

Agreed until this point, where i beg to differ.

Imho there is a hierarchy in the evolution of the souls, so it's unlikely, i guess, for a soul who has been aggressor and victim, to incarnate again as aggressor. 

A bit of a generalization,  i know, I'd bet that the "game" of incarnations is much more complex than that, and even more complex when trying to put into words.

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Agreed until this point, where i beg to differ.

Imho there is a hierarchy in the evolution of the souls, so it's unlikely, i guess, for a soul who has been aggressor and victim, to incarnate again as aggressor. 

A bit of a generalization,  i know, I'd bet that the "game" of incarnations is much more complex than that, and even more complex when trying to put into words.

Of course we can only speculate at this point.
I guess a soul can have more than one incarnation where the personality plays the aggressor or victim, IF the lesson it set out to learn hasn't been fully learned the previous times. 
I agree with the "hierarchy in the evolution of souls" though. 

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Agreed until this point, where i beg to differ.

Imho there is a hierarchy in the evolution of the souls, so it's unlikely, i guess, for a soul who has been aggressor and victim, to incarnate again as aggressor. 

A bit of a generalization,  i know, I'd bet that the "game" of incarnations is much more complex than that, and even more complex when trying to put into words.

What if good persons is not dominant enough compare to an aggressor, and a aggressor risk less with his behavior because the nature of the environment we are living in? 

 

I feel the karma belief harm the good ones, because they accept the status q suffering because the reward lays in the end of the suffering itself. The bad ones exploit this to its fullest. 

 

One of the most cruel animal I know of is Killer whales, and they are dominant in their environment. Is there different rules for Human animals and other animals? Because we can be reborn as animals right? If reborn as animals, dont they also have consensus then? 

 

I know we had arguments about animals before, and this is another twist to it.

 

It seems Nature rewards intelligence, strength and no guilt.

 

No consequences no guilt

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hummin

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Of course we can only speculate at this point.
I guess a soul can have more than one incarnation where the personality plays the aggressor or victim, IF the lesson it set out to learn hasn't been fully learned the previous times. 
I agree with the "hierarchy in the evolution of souls" though. 

Agree with the lesson to be fully learned, as i have learned some truth in the past, but for some reason which is under investigation, i keep on doing mistakes.

As an old zen proverb says, "before enlightenment fetch wood and carry water, after the enlightenment, fetch wood and carry water".

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Because we can be reborn as animals right? If reborn as animals, dont they also have consensus then? 

You make some good points on the 1st part of your post, which surely deserve a lot of debating !

Yet, to answer this question, i think it's unlikely for an individual soul (human) to incarnate again as collective soul (animal), but everything is possible, and at this point i can only speculate. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

John Oliver did a 20 minute bit on psychedelic medical treatments on today's show. See on Youtube. Nothing that new but not bad. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:10 PM, Sunmaster said:

Reminds me of something a poster asked here not too long ago. "Why do bad things happen to good people?"
This question only makes sense in the limited dualistic perception (right/wrong....good/bad).
Maybe a more appropriate question would be "Why do things happen to people?"....or even better "Why do things happen?". 
If we believe in some sort of soul or higher self, and if we believe that this soul has a much bigger overview of our 3D reality and other realities, then it would be logical to think that this soul is always aware that part of it is incarnated in 3D and knows that it chose to forget its identity during the incarnation (us). The soul also knows that it chose this setup as a way to act out various scenarios with the intention of learning or perfecting attributes such as compassion and tolerance.
All this is to say that in this light, there are neither wrongdoers nor victims. All souls have chosen to be incarnated and agreed to go through the life experiences they are living. This time around they may play the aggressor, next time they may be the victim, just so they can appreciate the energy dynamics from different points of view.
 

I have come to believe that I must have been a very bad guy last time around, and this time I'm learning to suffer from bad people. I certainly have suffered and usually from bad people, but I sometimes wonder if it's just that there are a lot of bad people out there and everybody suffers.

I suppose I won't know which it is till I exit this life.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:46 PM, mauGR1 said:

You make some good points on the 1st part of your post, which surely deserve a lot of debating !

Yet, to answer this question, i think it's unlikely for an individual soul (human) to incarnate again as collective soul (animal), but everything is possible, and at this point i can only speculate. 

In my belief, everything on the planet is part of "nature" ie part of God force, so while our bodies are animal, our brain makes us different from animals that are controlled by genes- we have imagination and the ability to choose what we do. Imagine if sheep had imagination- would they be content to just eat grass while waiting to become food?

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In my belief, everything on the planet is part of "nature" ie part of God force, so while our bodies are animal, our brain makes us different from animals that are controlled by genes- we have imagination and the ability to choose what we do. Imagine if sheep had imagination- would they be content to just eat grass while waiting to become food?

While it's true that human brain, compared to body's weight, is bigger than animals', and our nervous system more developed, there is more than the physical reality to differentiate us from animals. 

To make it short, it's about consciousness, which is doesn't come from the brain. 

I think the brain can be compared to a computer, and there's an ego in charge of the computer. 

If it was just about the brain, every human would display the same level of consciousness, and that's clearly not the case.

[TravelerEastWest]

Zero belief in formal religions.