Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I  thought I made it quite clear I'm not suffering from depression. I function well with no medication whatsoever... so "one of surrender and acceptance" is my category. 

 

What's your category? Where are you at?

Yes, I understand. I just mean that percentage wise, there are more people in the second category, simply because it takes a lot of introspection and awareness to reach the first category. 

 

Where am I at? Good question. 

Right now I'm working on old, deep seated beliefs that I think need to be cleared to better understand who I really am. It's a work in progress. 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Whether you think your life has meaning or not will depend on many factors. If, for example, you had children, then your meaning is clear - to raise your children. You can give your life meaning. Religion gives meaning - that a God loves and cares for you and you will be rewarded with an afterlife. 

 

I grew up as a Christian - studied the Bible from cover to cover.

I didn't say that " life has a meaning ", although i am inclined to think it has.

I just said that I'm trying to find a meaning, and it doesn't need to be the same meaning for everyone. 

Yes, i had children, but i never thought that the meaning of life is only raising children.

What I'm trying to say, is that we don't know for sure if life has a meaning, but one is free to think whatever he likes. 

 

[JensenZ]

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Yes, I understand. I just mean that percentage wise, there are more people in the second category, simply because it takes a lot of introspection and awareness to reach the first category. 

 

Where am I at? Good question. 

Right now I'm working on old, deep seated beliefs that I think need to be cleared to better understand who I really am. It's a work in progress. 

That's an honest answer - hope you reach your goal... and don't end up where I am LOL

 

 

[JensenZ]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I didn't say that " life has a meaning ", although i am inclined to think it has.

I just said that I'm trying to find a meaning, and it doesn't need to be the same meaning for everyone. 

Yes, i had children, but i never thought that the meaning of life is only raising children.

What I'm trying to say, is that we don't know for sure if life has a meaning, but one is free to think whatever he likes. 

 

Raising children certainly gives meaning for a good chunk of your (young) life though.

 

Here's a rough summary of my belief. The only difference is that I do believe in the existence of a God.

 

https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_existentialism.html

 

"Existentialism is a philosophy that emphasizes individual existence, freedom and choice. It is the view that humans define their own meaning in life, and try to make rational decisions despite existing in an irrational universe. It focuses on the question of human existence, and the feeling that there is no purpose or explanation at the core of existence. It holds that, as there is no God or any other transcendent force, the only way to counter this nothingness (and hence to find meaning in life) is by embracing existence."

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, scorecard said:

No I don't believe in god.

 

Virgin birth?  Not possible.

Magic? No, because magic can be explained rationally.

Rise from the dead after three days? Not possible.

 

After 17 thousand replies still not convinced. 

It is quite clear you read all of them based on your convincing reply  

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Raising children certainly gives meaning for a good chunk of your (young) life though.

 

Here's a rough summary of my belief. The only difference is that I do believe in the existence of a God.

 

https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_existentialism.html

 

"Existentialism is a philosophy that emphasizes individual existence, freedom and choice. It is the view that humans define their own meaning in life, and try to make rational decisions despite existing in an irrational universe. It focuses on the question of human existence, and the feeling that there is no purpose or explanation at the core of existence. It holds that, as there is no God or any other transcendent force, the only way to counter this nothingness (and hence to find meaning in life) is by embracing existence."

I agree,  and i also believe in the absolute, although there's much more to discuss about the meaning of life, and even on the meaning of the word " meaning".

That said, just the other day, i was having a look at a book by A.Watts, which i used to like when i was a teen... when he says that " life has no meaning ", i immediately lose interest..if his life has no meaning, how could anything he says have any meaning?

[Sunmaster]

I think the issue with the meaning of life is similar to the issue with free will. 
In the realm of manifest world both of them seem to exist, just like time and space seem to be real.

But I also think that there are conditions where they all just fall away. Meaning, free will, time, space become just concepts without any reality. Both conditions can be valid at the same time and are not mutually exclusive.

Personally, I still gravitate around the first, but I can also glimpse the truth in the second. It's a fascinating proposition.

[JensenZ]

8 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I think the issue with the meaning of life is similar to the issue with free will. 
In the realm of manifest world both of them seem to exist, just like time and space seem to be real.

But I also think that there are conditions where they all just fall away. Meaning, free will, time, space become just concepts without any reality. Both conditions can be valid at the same time and are not mutually exclusive.

Personally, I still gravitate around the first, but I can also glimpse the truth in the second. It's a fascinating proposition.

A good way to discover how much meaning your life has is how many people are there that will miss you when you're gone. If you people miss you, then you had meaning to those people which in turn gives your life meaning.

 

How many people would attend your funeral?

 

I'll start the ball rolling with a resounding zero. It's not a bad thing if you cause no sadness to any people when you pass.

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I think the issue with the meaning of life is similar to the issue with free will. 
In the realm of manifest world both of them seem to exist, just like time and space seem to be real.

But I also think that there are conditions where they all just fall away. Meaning, free will, time, space become just concepts without any reality. Both conditions can be valid at the same time and are not mutually exclusive.

Personally, I still gravitate around the first, but I can also glimpse the truth in the second. It's a fascinating proposition.

I don't really agree, for example when I'm dead physically, space-time may become non-existent, but the meaning of life , and possibly the free will, may be still there.

In other words, i see space/ time as related just to the physical existence, while meaning and free will are related to the soul existence. 

I may be wrong though ????

[Hummin]

28 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

A good way to discover how much meaning your life has is how many people are there that will miss you when you're gone. If you people miss you, then you had meaning to those people which in turn gives your life meaning.

 

How many people would attend your funeral?

 

I'll start the ball rolling with a resounding zero. It's not a bad thing if you cause no sadness to any people when you pass.

Omg, if that is the measurement, I have failed big time. Throughout my life I have moved from one place to another, changed lifestyle numerous of times and work. I had 5 serious relationships of different character, and lucky only one I never spoke to again. I have many people who I know miss me, but I really do not manage to keep in contact with because of distanse and time. 

 

Most important to me, is how many people Im at peace with, and how many enemies I managed to create, and right now, I have no enemies at all, and had very few at all in my life, where only a couple managed to trigger the worst in me. 

 

My goal in life is to go out with peace and quiet, still money in the bank and up in smoke spread by the wind, then I have succeeded. From dust to dust

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Omg, if that is the measurement, I have failed big time. Throughout my life I have moved from one place to another, changed lifestyle numerous of times and work. I had 5 serious relationships of different character, and lucky only one I never spoke to again. I have many people who I know miss me, but I really do not manage to keep in contact with because of distanse and time. 

 

Most important to me, is how many people Im at peace with, and how many enemies I managed to create, and right now, I have no enemies at all, and had very few at all in my life, where only a couple managed to trigger the worst in me. 

 

My goal in life is to go out with peace and quiet, still money in the bank and up in smoke spread by the wind, then I have succeeded. From dust to dust

Interesting post. I'm wondering how all of that (and many other posts) relates to

'do you believe in god?' 

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Interesting post. I'm wondering how all of that (and many other posts) relates to

'do you believe in god?' 

It comes under a sub category meaning of life. This Thread have been wide an open as the gate to hell ????

[save the frogs]

10 hours ago, JensenZ said:

The concept of karma is absurd.

no its not.

the psyche is another form of karma.

some people lack the capacity to perceive anything in a positive light and lack the ability to enjoy life.

2 farangs go to thailand. one enjoys their life, another complains about everything, perceives all thais to be racist ...

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, JensenZ said:

A good way to discover how much meaning your life has is how many people are there that will miss you when you're gone. If you people miss you, then you had meaning to those people which in turn gives your life meaning.

 

How many people would attend your funeral?

 

I'll start the ball rolling with a resounding zero. It's not a bad thing if you cause no sadness to any people when you pass.

Not many I think, simply because I'm an introvert and value quality over quantity. 

 

What gives meaning to my life is how well of a channel I can be, connecting to the inner dimensions and expressing them in the outside world. For example through art, but also through the way I interact with people. 

I don't have children, so no solace of immortality for me there.

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't really agree, for example when I'm dead physically, space-time may become non-existent, but the meaning of life , and possibly the free will, may be still there.

In other words, i see space/ time as related just to the physical existence, while meaning and free will are related to the soul existence. 

I may be wrong though ????

I'm not completely sure on meaning (although I tend to associate it with the rest), but I'm pretty sure free will is linked to the material life and the ego, and has as much reality as the dream world (Maya) we live in. I believe that once we move on and consciousness is no longer restricted by a body, we will realize that there is only divine will and what we thought of free will was just an illusion. Some people realize that while still in the body, but for most of us, it will take something big (like death) to understand that.
In a nutshell, if the world (Maya) and the ego (a construct to interact with Maya) are illusions, then it can be deduced that free will is also part of that illusion.
I fought against this idea for a long time, because it's a hard pill to swallow and pretty scary to think we don't have free will, but ultimately I think there is no way around it.

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I'm not completely sure on meaning (although I tend to associate it with the rest), but I'm pretty sure free will is linked to the material life and the ego, and has as much reality as the dream world (Maya) we live in. I believe that once we move on and consciousness is no longer restricted by a body, we will realize that there is only divine will and what we thought of free will was just an illusion. Some people realize that while still in the body, but for most of us, it will take something big (like death) to understand that.
In a nutshell, if the world (Maya) and the ego (a construct to interact with Maya) are illusions, then it can be deduced that free will is also part of that illusion.
I fought against this idea for a long time, because it's a hard pill to swallow and pretty scary to think we don't have free will, but ultimately I think there is no way around it.

Thanks for the clear, articulated reply.

Well, if we accept the concept of reincarnation, i have little doubt that between death and a new life, the most earthly desires get cleaned up, so to speak, and what is called the " false ego" just disappear, but perhaps the purest part of the ego can remain self conscious. 

 Like in the case of Buddha, who is said to have vowed to come back in this world until every sentient being is freed from pain, i believe that very evolved spirits can retain their free will in the spiritual realms, provided their free will resonate in harmony with the absolute, even beyond the physical world.

Of course there's a lot of room for speculation here, so I'm taking my own words with a pinch of salt.

 

[save the frogs]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I fought against this idea for a long time, because it's a hard pill to swallow and pretty scary to think we don't have free will, but ultimately I think there is no way around it.

not sure what you're talking about.

the whole planet is designed around free will.

that's why people have asked in this thread "how can god exist if there is so much evil in the world"?

and the answer is because human beings have been given free will to act out in negative ways if they choose.

 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

i believe that very evolved spirits can retain their free will in the spiritual realms, provided their free will resonate in harmony with the absolute, even beyond the physical world.

That's exactly it. Can you still call it "free will" if it then resonates in harmony with the absolute? Who is there to exert this free will? 

 

This makes my mind wander....
I picture it this way. An entity (or soul) is not a perfect being or consciousness. It is a fragment of the Whole with a job to do. The job is to become whole again by going through specific interactions and experiences. The entity decides that the best way to do this, is to create an even smaller fragment of consciousness to enter the material world. And in doing so, it willingly chooses to forget its true identity. The soul designs the screenplay and then creates a fragment to play in it.

 

In this material world this fragment of consciousness is given a name, is taught how its senses work and how to use them to manipulate the outside world. A distinct ego emerges or is built on top of the fragment. This fragment of consciousness, having forgotten its true identity, is now equipped with an ego and identifies with this construct. The ego can be a useful tool to interact with the outside world, but it can also be a great obstacle on the way to remember. 

So....the Whole splits and fragments (souls) generate new fragments (personalities) in order to return to the Source. The soul decides where and when the new fragment will incarnate. Since the soul exists in a timeless now, there are no limitations to time or place for the incarnation. And it's not just 1 soul for 1 personality. What if a soul were capable of creating multiple personalities, incarnating "at the same time" to learn different things? One in Roman times as a man, another as a farmer in the Dark Ages, another one as an expat in Thailand in 2023 and one as a woman in the year 3543? Wouldn't that blow your mind? ???? The implications would be amazing, but too long to get into now. "Past lives" would take on a completely new meaning, for example.

Why this immense cosmic dance? What is the purpose?
Some say it's a way for the Whole to experience itself, because if there is no fragmentation (duality), there is no experience, there is only being. Others say there is no purpose, and that's OK too. 
Like you say MauGR, we can only speculate about these questions. What ultimately matters most I think, is to listen within and ask ourselves: Who am I? 
The rest comes by itself.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Sunmaster

[Sunmaster]

How I imagine it...

 

The big stream of divine will splits into smaller branches (souls), who create even smaller streams (personalities). As long as the small streams think they are separate from the whole stream, they will have the illusion of free will. To them however, it will appear completely real and they act according to this believe. 

 

From the view of the whole stream though, everything within it happens in accordance to its flow (divine will). This flow is All There Is....there is nothing that is outside this flow, thus there can't be anything that is not divine will. 

 

The illusion of free will only persists as long as there is a personality who believes it is separate from the Whole.

[JensenZ]

6 hours ago, save the frogs said:

no its not.

the psyche is another form of karma.

some people lack the capacity to perceive anything in a positive light and lack the ability to enjoy life.

2 farangs go to thailand. one enjoys their life, another complains about everything, perceives all thais to be racist ...

 

No, it doesn't work like that. There's degrees of positivity and negativity. Either way, positive and negative are spins (views) on reality, which is how things actually are, not how they are perceived. One person sees a glass as half full, another as half empty, the reality is 125 ml.

 

 You would call a person who puts a positive spin on events a positive person, and vice versa for negative. Humans try to put a positive spin on most tragic events. That's the main reason for existence of religion, to overcome the reality of death... "it can't be the end". 

[mauGR1]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Can you still call it "free will" if it then resonates in harmony with the absolute? Who is there to exert this free will? 

There's indeed a point where the free will of a soul " melts" with the music of the absolute. At this point, whether we call it free will, or another name, it's not important. 

Agree with your post, very well put.

[mauGR1]

5 hours ago, JensenZ said:

No, it doesn't work like that. There's degrees of positivity and negativity. Either way, positive and negative are spins (views) on reality, which is how things actually are, not how they are perceived. One person sees a glass as half full, another as half empty, the reality is 125 ml.

 

 You would call a person who puts a positive spin on events a positive person, and vice versa for negative. Humans try to put a positive spin on most tragic events. That's the main reason for existence of religion, to overcome the reality of death... "it can't be the end". 

I agree with the first part of this post, but i don't see the death of the physical body as the ultimate tragedy. Death happens, is part of the dual reality. 

The real tragedy is the suffering of living, and the purpose of religion is, well, it should be, to alleviate that suffering. 

[mauGR1]

9 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Why this immense cosmic dance? What is the purpose?

Once i was tripping in the mountains, and there was an unforgettable moment, where i thought i could communicate with the absolute, so i asked " what i have to do ?"

And the answer was " you have to create".

The best answer i have found so far for the purpose of the whole existence, is " Ram lila" ( god is playing)

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:32 PM, mauGR1 said:

It's ok to be negative, i guess, as it is being positive when things appear to be going well, but it's not a secret that having a positive attitude helps a lot.

I guess my main bitch about life is that there was a whole lot more to be negative about than positive.

It's easy to be positive when things are great, but I'm not a good enough actor to pretend that things are OK when they are not.

Not really a problem now as I basically a recluse,but I do have a friend that likes to bitch about life as much as I, so we get on well when I visit.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, save the frogs said:

not sure what you're talking about.

the whole planet is designed around free will.

that's why people have asked in this thread "how can god exist if there is so much evil in the world"?

and the answer is because human beings have been given free will to act out in negative ways if they choose.

 

"how can god exist if there is so much evil in the world"?

to which my answer, as always, is that God doesn't "care" as that is a human emotion and God is not human.

Do we care that insects are killing and feasting on anything they can if they are not actually disturbing us? I doubt it.

Same with God.

In my opinion, the arrogance of humans is that we think that we are special in creation.

[Sunmaster]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not really a problem now as I basically a recluse,but I do have a friend that likes to bitch about life as much as I, so we get on well when I visit.

I can just imagine the scene... ????

Edited April 23, 2023 by Sunmaster

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, save the frogs said:

no its not.

the psyche is another form of karma.

some people lack the capacity to perceive anything in a positive light and lack the ability to enjoy life.

2 farangs go to thailand. one enjoys their life, another complains about everything, perceives all thais to be racist ...

 

I don't think any person, unless a psychopath or such like can't enjoy life if life is enjoyable. However, for some, life has no enjoyment because there is nothing to enjoy about it.

 

Certainly, I think if some are dependent on others to feel happy or validated, they are in for a world of mental pain, as I have met few people that care enough about other people to make their lives better without something in it for themselves.

 

I learned long ago that I should not expect gratitude for any good I do for others, and have rarely been proven wrong on that score.

I did keep trying though, and kept learning the lesson.

The last guy to take advantage of my "good" nature was the guy that killed himself on his m'bike, which was why I was considering if the universe acted against him as karma, or if it was just an accident that he isn't still around to taunt me.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

I can just imagine the scene... ????

Pretty much.

If one can't love life, one can still bitch about it.

[d4dang]

 

thank God there is no God

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, d4dang said:

 

thank God there is no God

Prove it.

If you can't then you have to admit that God could exist, even if you don't believe.

Edited April 23, 2023 by thaibeachlovers