The Procrustean bed for retirees.

[watcharacters]

19 hours ago, Denim said:

 

At this rate you'll end up living in a shoe box on a rubbish dump or perhaps a golf course.

 

THat's what it looks like to me.     

 

Having all one's possessions in a suitcase or two lacks appeal.

 

Then add in the hassle of  looking for a new apartment every so often and dealing with rental deposit refunds and etc.

[BritManToo]

37 minutes ago, Saltire said:

The only other option would be for her to get a job, which, even with my many contacts there, would be very difficult.

Employ her as your housekeeper.

[Pedrogaz]

21 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Insurance required for O-A only

A 'retirement visa' (sic) is an O-A which is what the man has.

[BritManToo]

39 minutes ago, Saltire said:

It's worth noting too that Cambodia is following Thailand in visa changes. My 5 years there were so easy visa-wise but now it's not so straightforward, and probably more changes eventually.

Exactly the opposite is true,

It's even easier now, if you're over 55 they introduced a long term VISA just for you in 2017.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

A 'retirement visa' (sic) is an O-A which is what the man has.

That is not what he says. He said he had an Extension of Stay. 

 

[Saltire]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Employ her as your housekeeper.

Worth investigating thanks.

[Saltire]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Exactly the opposite is true,

It's even easier now, if you're over 55 they introduced a long term VISA just for you in 2017.

Not quite true (easy if you are over 55 for sure) - but this age limit introduction to 55 or over was preceded by any age, so younger than 55 also got an annual visa no problem without having to work or leave. I have many friends under 55 who had been on the same visa as me (64 now) who panicked when the 'retirement' visa age was set to >55. Many left or took up the options of a job, setting up a business, or moving, or doing visa runs for short term stays. I know one guy who bought a bar to enable him to stay.

 

Now they have ES EB ER and a few more all with new conditions for applicants.

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It really isn't as crystal clear as that especially going forward. 

Which is why I'm hoping someone will prepare a table with a column for every visa  / extension of stay category, and notes of where the medical insurance applies / doesn't apply.

[brewsterbudgen]

Which is why I'm hoping someone will prepare a table with a column for every visa  / extension of stay category, and notes of where the medical insurance applies / doesn't apply.

That is easy.

OX visas currently require insurance.

OA visas are going to require insurance once the law comes into effect.

No other visas and no Extensions of Stay currently require insurance.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I have top level private health cover in Australia, which is presumably worth nothing in the eyes of Thai officialdom.

That's because, unless it's a global health insurance policy, your Australian health insurance does not cover you outside of Australia.  

 

This is why people take out travel insurance policies when they come to Thailand for a holiday.  It's not so much for having their camera stolen, for example, it's for if they get sick, or injured. 

 

When they get back to Australia, their medical treatment is covered by their health insurance, but what happens outside of Australia is not covered, and if it's a serious injury or illness, that can be big money in Thailand, before you can even travel back to Australia.

 

If this is the type of insurance you have, then it is useless to you in Thailand for emergency health care.

[4evermaat]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It really isn't as crystal clear as that especially going forward. 

 

Actually, all of the articles made it quite clear that it only affected those wanting to obtain a non O-A visa based on retirement only.   The latest article says that the changes may take effect in July.  Nothing to do with yearly extensions and such.  I think even @ubonjoe has clarified this.  

 

The confusion comes when these news/announcement threads come with 100+ subsequent pages of replies spewing panic, speculation, etc as to what changes may be next.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, 4evermaat said:

 

Actually, all of the articles made it quite clear that it only affected those wanting to obtain a non O-A visa based on retirement only.   The latest article says that the changes may take effect in July.  Nothing to do with yearly extensions and such.  I think even @ubonjoe has clarified this.  

 

The confusion comes when these news/announcement threads come with 100+ subsequent pages of replies spewing panic, speculation, etc as to what changes may be next.

I totally disagree. The "news" is indeed ambiguous. What you fail to realize is how widespread incorrect use of terminology here is among the press and even immigration officers. People commonly call extensions visa renewals and even refer to all on annual retirement extensions as originally having O-A visas even if they actually started with an O, not O-A. Also there have been messages that people that do start with O-A visas (which must represent a huge percentage of people on continuous extensions) are also subject to the health insurance requirements. Let's not play confidence games when there is not yet any strong basis to have that confidence. There are no Gods posting here. Where this is going in actually is simply NOT KNOWABLE at this point in time. 

To wit --

 

Quote

Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal

Foreign Ministry

[scubascuba3]

I totally disagree. The "news" is indeed ambiguous. What you fail to realize is how widespread incorrect use of terminology here is among the press and even immigration officers. People commonly call extensions visa renewals and even refer to all on annual retirement extensions as originally having O-A visas even if they actually started with an O, not O-A. Also there have been messages that people that do start with O-A visas (which must represent a huge percentage of people on continuous extensions) are also subject to the health insurance requirements. Let's not play confidence games when there is not yet any strong basis to have that confidence. There are no Gods posting here. Where this is going in actually is simply NOT KNOWABLE at this point in time. 

Dear oh dear, for the love of god. Maybe when they stated O-A they meant tourist visa too? or previously when stating 800k is required it's really 2m, let's worry about everything. Must be an age thing

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Dear oh dear, for the love of god. Maybe when they stated O-A they meant tourist visa too? or previously when stating 800k is required it's really 2m, let's worry about everything. Must be an age thing

 

Cambodia is nice ........

Why worry about staying here, plenty of 3rd world countries with cheaper beer and girls still available.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

Dear oh dear, for the love of god. Maybe when they stated O-A they meant tourist visa too? or previously when stating 800k is required it's really 2m, let's worry about everything. Must be an age thing

 

Here is an example. 
Say you got an O-A visa 10 years ago and you've been here on annual extensions since. 

The Foreign Ministry specifically says RENEWAL of O-A visas will be subject to the health insurance too.

There is no such thing as RENEWAL of an O-A visa.

This is one of the many lost in translation things that happen so often here.

 

So what are they referring to, what can happen with an O-A visa over time?

 

You can reenter Thailand before it's initially void and get an additional year's stay.

Is THAT what they mean by renewal?

If so, then such people would need to show proof of insurance during that entry.

 

You can get continuous annual retirement extensions for life if you started with an O-A visa.

Is THAT what they mean by renewal?

If so, then such people would need to show proof of insurance during upon extension application.

 

You can go back to your home country and apply for NEW O-A visas, indefinitely. 

Is THAT what they mean by renewal?

I think not because when an O-A visa expires there is nothing to renew.

A new O-A visa application is just that, it's a NEW O-A visa application. Renewal implies you have something in your passport that is still valid. 

[scubascuba3]

Here is an example. 
Say you got an O-A visa 10 years ago and you've been here on annual extensions since. 
The Foreign Ministry specifically says RENEWAL of O-A visas will be subject to the health insurance too.
There is no such thing as RENEWAL of an O-A visa.
This is one of the many lost in translation things that happen so often here.
 
So what are they referring to, what can happen with an O-A visa over time?
 
You can reenter Thailand before it's initially void and get an additional year's stay.
Is THAT what they mean by renewal?
If so, then such people would need to show proof of insurance during that entry.
 
You can get continuous annual retirement extensions for life if you started with an O-A visa.
Is THAT what they mean by renewal?
If so, then such people would need to show proof of insurance during upon extension application.
 
You can go back to your home country and apply for NEW O-A visas, indefinitely. 
Is THAT what they mean by renewal?
I think not because when an O-A visa expires there is nothing to renew.
A new O-A visa application is just that, it's a NEW O-A visa application. Renewal implies you have something in your passport that is still valid. 

The more interesting point is why are they picking on O-A only and not O. My guess is with an O-A no need for the holder to have THB income or 800k in the bank, which authorities don't like

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Here is an example. 
Say you got an O-A visa 10 years ago and you've been here on annual extensions since. 
The Foreign Ministry specifically says RENEWAL of O-A visas will be subject to the health insurance too.
There is no such thing as RENEWAL of an O-A visa.
This is one of the many lost in translation things that happen so often here.
 
So what are they referring to, what can happen with an O-A visa over time?
 
You can reenter Thailand before it's initially void and get an additional year's stay.
Is THAT what they mean by renewal?
If so, then such people would need to show proof of insurance during that entry.
 
You can get continuous annual retirement extensions for life if you started with an O-A visa.
Is THAT what they mean by renewal?
If so, then such people would need to show proof of insurance during upon extension application.
 
You can go back to your home country and apply for NEW O-A visas, indefinitely. 
Is THAT what they mean by renewal?
I think not because when an O-A visa expires there is nothing to renew.
A new O-A visa application is just that, it's a NEW O-A visa application. Renewal implies you have something in your passport that is still valid. 

The more interesting point is why are they picking on O-A only and not O. My guess is with an O-A no need for the holder to have THB income or 800k in the bank, which authorities don't like

It's an interesting guess and I've thought of that too, but still, just another guess.
People understandably want DEFINITE answers now and they are simply not available. 

There is nobody posting here that can offer that YET. Sorry.

About that guess there is a flaw. The people using embassy letters (the vast majority of national) for the income method that are not required to import even ONE baht. 

[scubascuba3]

About that guess there is a flaw. The people using embassy letters (the vast majority of national) for the income method that are not required to import even ONE baht. 

Which is why the govt wanted more checks by the various embassies

[brewsterbudgen]

The more interesting point is why are they picking on O-A only and not O. My guess is with an O-A no need for the holder to have THB income or 800k in the bank, which authorities don't like

Because OA and OX visas are long-stay visas. O visas are not.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[scubascuba3]

Because OA and OX visas are long-stay visas. O visas are not.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

The O retirement year extension isn't long stay?

[brewsterbudgen]

The O retirement year extension isn't long stay?

An Extension is not a visa. The insurance requirement is for long-stay visas.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[totally thaied up]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The people using embassy letters (the vast majority of national) for the income method that are not required to import even ONE baht

And hence in many ways, a two tiered system now that means too me, a large pot of people with no money here in the banking system and the authorities in power with regards to health care will not like that.

[Jingthing]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

An Extension is not a visa. The insurance requirement is for long-stay visas.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

AND renewals. People typically consider annual retirement extensions RENEWALS. 

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

11 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Because OA and OX visas are long-stay visas. O visas are not.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The O retirement year extension isn't long stay?

It's only 90 days, Like the tourist VISA is only 60 days.

[LivinLOS]

On 5/15/2019 at 6:58 AM, Lacessit said:

At age 76, I am unlikely to get the new mandated health insurance IF it passes into law. AND Immigration insists on applying it to retirement visa extensions of stay.

The policy is available at your age.. The companies that provide it https://longstay.tgia.org/

[4evermaat]

9 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

15 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Because OA and OX visas are long-stay visas. O visas are not.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The O retirement year extension isn't long stay?

 

7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

An Extension is not a visa. The insurance requirement is for long-stay visas.

 

A distinction is made between extensions of stay (occurring within Thailand at a local immigration) vs a non OA,OX visa (issued at embassy/consulate outside Thailand and gives the holder permission to stay stamps > 90 days (1 year in these cases).

 

 

But some still say it is confusing.  I admit there are several options to keep up with.  But if you look at each option objectively, the requirements for each path are pretty clear. 

 

Oh yeah, IMHO.

[scubascuba3]

The policy is available at your age.. The companies that provide it https://longstay.tgia.org/

What thicky would buy these insurance policies? Low levels of cover for high premiums

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

11 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The policy is available at your age.. The companies that provide it https://longstay.tgia.org/

What thicky would buy these insurance policies? Low levels of cover for high premiums

A thicky that wants to stay here and isn't qualified to buy anything else. 

[scubascuba3]

A thicky that wants to stay here and isn't qualified to buy anything else. 

Lots of health insurance companies around, explore those first

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

 

Actually, all of the articles made it quite clear that it only affected those wanting to obtain a non O-A visa based on retirement only.   The latest article says that the changes may take effect in July.    I think even @ubonjoe has clarified this.  

 

The confusion comes when these news/announcement threads come with 100+ subsequent pages of replies spewing panic, speculation, etc as to what changes may be next.

Nothing to do with yearly extensions. . . 

 

Hopefully, this is correct. But it would be helpful get a simple, clear statement to this effect from Thai Immigration. They must be aware of the confusion and alarm in the expat ranks.