What happens about Home if Thai wife dies before me

[Davejf2017]

Our house is in my Thai wife name I am English my wife is going to leave everything to me in a will if she dies before me nothing to any Thai family of hers she has no children.Do i just carry on living in the property.Thank you for any advice given.

[delgarcon]

My advice to you is to see a good lawyer (if you can find one]. Please let me know how you get on as I am in a similar position, although I have a contract with my gf made at the Land office which entitles me to 25 years of residence in the house.

Edited May 24, 2019 by delgarcon
added text

[Snow Leopard]

8 minutes ago, delgarcon said:

My advice to you is to see a good lawyer (if you can find one]. Please let me know how you get on as I am in a similar position, although I have a contract with my gf made at the Land office which entitles me to 25 years of residence in the house.

I am looking at the same contract. Would you mind being so good and sir giving me a PM on the procedure and requirements? I am not sure about using a lawyer for this. 

[Snow Leopard]

11 minutes ago, delgarcon said:

My advice to you is to see a good lawyer (if you can find one]. Please let me know how you get on as I am in a similar position, although I have a contract with my gf made at the Land office which entitles me to 25 years of residence in the house.

 

[Snow Leopard]

Let us all know how this goes please. 

[Delight]

Probate will grant you the house.

However Thai law specifies that a foreigner cannot own the land.

The  land office  will give you 12 months to sell.

 The will of your wife must specify that you are both administrator and beneficiary.

This is very important.

With this in place it may be possible to leave it in the name of the administrator for many years.In effect do not do the land office process.

That could just leave you with the problem of -what happens to the house post your demise.

There could be alternate ways to solve your stated problem.

Advice from a good lawyer is required for this.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Delight

[tutsiwarrior]

what Delight said about administrator and beneficiary on the will is very important...when my wife died last year I signed these rights away without good legal advice (her death was sudden and we had no will) and now my control is significantly diminished...now only just have an usufruct with predatory family everywhere...luckily the admin and beneficiary rights have gone to my Mil who is a pal...but she's 75 y.o. and in declining health...

 

 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Davejf2017 said:

i just carry on living in the property.

yes you do, leave the house in the dead wife's name.

No need to transfer it to anyone else.

No need to ever complete probate.

Edited May 24, 2019 by BritManToo

[shaurene]

My friends wife died,she had daughter with first Thai hubby.

The house had to be split 50/50. As far as I know info childrentheclose family like a mother/sister/brother get the 50/50

i am in Khon Kaen and we have a close friend. He is AustralianPHDDr. His wife Dewis a top lawyer and represents the government of certain cases.She is very good and fights for the Falang rights.

contact me if you want the contact details.

[henry15]

In your specific case. If the land  is smaller than 1 Rai. You can obtain full ownership. Meaning, you don't have to sell the land after 1 year.

[khunPer]

7 minutes ago, henry15 said:

In your specific case. If the land  is smaller than 1 Rai. You can obtain full ownership. Meaning, you don't have to sell the land after 1 year.

Can you please specify?

[IssanMichael]

48 minutes ago, henry15 said:

In your specific case. If the land  is smaller than 1 Rai. You can obtain full ownership. Meaning, you don't have to sell the land after 1 year.

NONSENSE

[baansgr]

7 hours ago, Delight said:

Probate will grant you the house.

However Thai law specifies that a foreigner cannot own the land.

The  land office  will give you 12 months to sell.

 The will of your wife must specify that you are both administrator and beneficiary.

This is very important.

With this in place it may be possible to leave it in the name of the administrator for many years.In effect do not do the land office process.

That could just leave you with the problem of -what happens to the house post your demise.

There could be alternate ways to solve your stated problem.

Advice from a good lawyer is required for this.

Do this, just hope the house is far away from the family and not in the village near them, money makes people do crazy things, especially in Thailand

[connda]

You need to contact a lawyer and have them draw up a Usufruct contract allowing you to use the land the premise sits on for life.  She can leave the house to you in the Will but not the land.  The Usufract is entered on the Land Department documents for her land and will follow the land deed around as long as you live.
FYI, the Land Department may not be excited about allowing this and may need to be nudged.  Interpret that however you wish.

[Delight]

11 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Do this, just hope the house is far away from the family and not in the village near them, money makes people do crazy things, especially in Thailand

 If the OP is worried about this then he should simply give up the house upon the demise of his wife.

Of course in all likelyhood she will out live the OP.

[Enki]

6 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

what Delight said about administrator and beneficiary on the will is very important...when my wife died last year I signed these rights away without good legal advice (her death was sudden and we had no will) and now my control is significantly diminished...now only just have an usufruct with predatory family everywhere...luckily the admin and beneficiary rights have gone to my Mil who is a pal...but she's 75 y.o. and in declining health...

 

 

You have a usufruct? So what is the problem?

[tutsiwarrior]

1 hour ago, Enki said:

You have a usufruct? So what is the problem?

one has greater control as the appointed estate administrator and beneficiary with the probate court when the wife dies...the usufruct is supposed to guarantee control (but not ownership) of the property until the death of the usufructee but to date I've never heard of anyone having to force the terms of the usufruct at the land office in the event of the sale of the property or etc...it's like a toss up between what the probate court (administrator) or the land office (usufruct) says and land office staff are known to be very xenophobic...a probate court disposition is definitive from my understanding and nice to have in addition to the usufruct...

Edited May 24, 2019 by tutsiwarrior

[KhaoYai]

I would agree, find a lawyer and make sure your wife's will is done correctly but I would also get a Usufuct agreement as a belt and braces measure. Make sure the Usufruct is registered at the Land Office or it ain't worth diddly.

 

If the worst comes to the worst and the family make legal challenges or just make things difficult for you, once they understand the strength of the Usufruct, they'll most likely back off. Its not an expensive process at all.

[tutsiwarrior]

the usufruct has no legal standing unless it is entered on the back of the chanote with yer name by the land office people and there have been numerous reports of the local land office being reluctant to comply...

 

the big question is when folks begin to encroach (like the wife's family) and the falang husband has to bring the force of the law into play...a thai enforcing the legal right of a falang against another thai seems like an unlikely scenario especially when land rights are the issue...

 

so the question remains, has any foreigner with a deceased thai wife needed to defend his rights as a usufructee against encroachment from the thai wife's family or other claimants? and if so what was the result?

 

 

[Jip99]

The only case that I have first hand experience of turned out well ...........initially. 

 

One has to to distinguish between the legal position and the practical position. The legal position will always win, but there may be (an unacceptable) price to pay from the practical aspect.

 

A friend’s wife tried to kick him out when the relationship soured. The police were called and my friend explained about the usufruct; the wife produced the chanote. The police officer advised the wife that if anyone had to leave it would be her..... she did. The officer also (incorrectly) advised my friend that he wouldn’t be able to help if there was a next time.

 

Legally his position was secure.

 

The first problem occurred two weeks later when he took another Thai lady back to the house. The house, as you may guess, was in the village built on family land.....the MIL was a neighbour. Word quickly got round and a family posse appeared; there was a confrontation and girl left out of fear - effectively run out of town.

 

I understand that there were further incidents and he eventually moved elsewhere.

 

I think will depend on individual circumstances, location, family and how the local judiciary and police deal with the situation. If I had to deal with such a situation I would employ a local lawyer and visit the local chief of police to discuss the position - to ensure that the family’s ‘card was marked’ about my legal standing.

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, Jip99 said:

The house, as you may guess, was in the village built on family land.....

Yes, and something I'd never do. Plenty of houses/independent plots available in other places. Never, ever, build a house on family land. You can have all the legalities/usufructs you like but if things go wrong somewhere down the line, you could end up living in a very hostile environment and you will almost certainly find it too tough to take.

Edited May 25, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Skallywag]

20 hours ago, Delight said:

23 hours ago, Davejf2017 said:

Our house is in my Thai wife name I am English my wife is going to leave everything to me in a will if she dies before me nothing to any Thai family of hers she has no children.Do i just carry on living in the property.Thank you for any advice given.

The  land office  will give you 12 months to sell.

 The will of your wife must specify that you are both administrator and beneficiary.

This is very important.

Just wondering why you would want to stay in "our house" after wife dies?  I would think selling and moving on would be best...  Do you have many friends who live nearby?  Are they your friends or your wifes friends?  Living alone in a big house seems unsafe to me in a foreign land -  do not know of any foreigners doing that is all.

[Orton Rd]

18 hours ago, BritManToo said:

yes you do, leave the house in the dead wife's name.

No need to transfer it to anyone else.

No need to ever complete probate.

Many are, like ours, unselable anyway so no need to bother trying with that. Wish my mrs would make a will, still trying to find out where she hides her bank books, and what's in them!

Edited May 25, 2019 by Orton Rd

[steven100]

7 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

still trying to find out why she hides her bank book

because she doesn't want you to see that one million extra baht she's accumulated .....

[Ozman52]

15 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Just wondering why you would want to stay in "our house" after wife dies?  I would think selling and moving on would be best...  Do you have many friends who live nearby?  Are they your friends or your wifes friends?  Living alone in a big house seems unsafe to me in a foreign land -  do not know of any foreigners doing that is all.

Have a friend who now owns a house after wife died. It was built in her village and cost many multiples of any other house there. He has no problems with family, but how does he sell it? Nobody in the village has enough to buy it, or if they have they are using their money more productively, and who wants to move to some unknown village because they can get a good deal on a house?

[XenZen]

12 hours ago, Enki said:

You have a usufruct? So what is the problem?

I knew a guy who went to court many times and they dismissed his usufruct.  it's true, i don't know all the details, but soon he was out of the country and lost it ALL.   

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

Many are, like ours, unselable anyway so no need to bother trying with that. Wish my mrs would make a will, still trying to find out where she hides her bank books, and what's in them!

Thats easy, times the amount of years you have been together by how much you have in your accounts then double it...that will be about right

[philby]

Good thread, and relevant to a lot of us, so thank you for the contributions.

 

So is the summary of this thread that you should do both?

 

1. get a usufruct agreement, at the land office.

2. get a will where you're both the administrator and beneficiary?

 

and if your wife dies before you, you can continue to live in the house. My only wrinkle is that the land is solely in my wife's name - does that cause an extra problem?

[JWRC]

Just remember wills can be changed and/or challenged.