Feeling ripped off by the condo owner, anything I can do?

[CharlieH]

Now you know why the rent seemed low its because the electric bill is subsidising it by 2k a month.

Old trick , low rent sting on electric which had that loophole closed when govt stipulated you can't overcharge on electricity but naturally there are those still trying it on.

 

I would give her 500 baht (because she has 4k deposit) and leave. Tell her she's wrong and if she pushes it you will report it.

 

 

[ryanhull]

16 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

i pay 8 baht a unit too, i dont like it but i like other stuff here,

8 baht is standard in condos, accept it or move to a place

where you pay government rate. in any case it would be very bad manner to run from the bill, that is actually technically right, even if it sux ass to not have a more transparent cost, i.e it would be more straight up 

if it was enforced government rate and condo owners would simply have to adjust rent to make it up.

come to think of it it would also be a crime to run from the bill, this is not a case where a condo owner rip you off the deposit,

this is a criminal act on your behalf,

and i sure hope it will get you consequences, just as i think the scam the other way around should get condo owners to pay for their tricks, when they keep deposit

 

Thanks for your input, and thanks for you hoping me to get into trouble legally... appreciated.

However, the following attachment would show that the landlord is acting illegally. Now I am not exacly disputing the bill per say, but the amount of units been used in my condo, so lets say the aircon is faulty, or there meter is even faulty, surely its the landlord job to check this out? and surely its the landlords job to act within the law which I have attatched here. You are contradicting most of the replies I have had here in this sentence

 

Quote

8 baht is standard in condos, accept it or move to a place

According to the law, and according to replies on this very post, 8bhat is not standard and double what I should be paying, should I believe you, the guy who wishes bad luck to me, or the more helpful posts in which people are actually trying to help me get to the bottom of this aka, could be a problem in the meter, the aircon unit etc? 

As you know nothing about me, nor have any idea what type of person I am, I am at a complete loss to why you would 

 

Quote

i sure hope it will get you consequences

 

Why would you feel such to someone who is merely concerned about an electric bill given its well over the going rate and against the rate of the Thai law?

'The law requires landlords to charge electricity and water fees at the standard rates set by utility authorities. For electricity, it is 3.90 baht a unit and tap water 7 baht a unit.'
Source: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1456153/law-calls-halt-to-landlords-cranking-up-bills

'The new law prevents landlords from over-charging extra charges for things like water, electricity and Wi-Fi. Rather, they must charge only what the landlord was actually billed.'
http://www.thailawforum.com/new-thai-lease-law-empowers-renters/

 

So I really do not see your comment here in regards it should be me whos penalized for this and its me whos the one committing crime, and you wish me bad consequences from what? being concerned I am being over charged on my electric bill after reading the thai law which has been in force since may 2018? I may be loosing my marbles here but I think your wrong in your posts. 

 

Thanks all the same, I wish you good luck, not bad ????

[ryanhull]

Quote

Now you know why the rent seemed low its because the electric bill is subsidising it by 2k a month.

Old trick , low rent sting on electric which had that loophole closed when govt stipulated you can't overcharge on electricity but naturally there those still trying it on.

 

I would give her 500 baht (because she has 4k deposit) and leave. Tell her she's wrong and if she pushes it you will report it.

Thanks mate, I completely get you, she still is acting illegally though right? but your idea sounds good in regards to leaving and slipping her 500 bhat,.... well you live and learn and I certainly was a bit of a numptie to sign it in the first place I guess.... don't know why some are shooting me down so badly though heh, cheers Charlie for the reply

[CharlieH]

If you do leave, photo everything with a date stamp in case she invents any damages etc.

 

Good luck, learn from it and move on mate.

 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, madmen said:

"you can then report her to whoever investigates these things"

Surely you jest. A contract is a contract

Absolute rubbish, contracts aren't worth paper they are on if they don't comply with the law.

 

The clause in the rental contract deeming you to pay 8 thb/kwh can be considered invalid by you, demand the original bill from the local electricity company and pay only that. 

 

Also you can move out with a 30 day notice, ur deposit has to be returned immeditaly.

 

 

Good luck, just make it clear that you won't pussy out as that's what most thai landlords bet on. Make sure to mention the revenue department and they shut up immeditaly.

Edited June 26, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[madmen]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:18 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

Absolute rubbish, contracts aren't worth paper they are on if they don't comply with the law.

 

The clause in the rental contract deeming you to pay 8 thb/kwh can be considered invalid by you, demand the original bill from the local electricity company and pay only that. 

You can read more about those new laws here: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2018/03/13/thai-law-what-landlords-must-quickly-do-or-go-to-jail/

 

 

 

Also you can move out with a 30 day notice, ur deposit has to be returned immeditaly.

 

 

Good luck, just make it clear that you won't pussy out as that's what most thai landlords bet on. Make sure to mention the revenue department and they shut up immeditaly.

Total BS. 

 

Note that while the regulations apply to a “residential lease business” – meaning landlords who rent out a total of five or more residential units

 

If 5 condos then its the law but 4 condos or less a contract is contract and no way any farang will know how many condos the landlord has !

Edited June 27, 2019 by blackcab
Highlight on text removed

[ThomasThBKK]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:26 PM, madmen said:

Total BS. 

 

Note that while the regulations apply to a “residential lease business” – meaning landlords who rent out a total of five or more residential units

 

If 5 condos then its the law but 4 condos or less a contract is contract and no way any farang will know how many condos the landlord has !

 

On 6/26/2019 at 6:03 PM, ryanhull said:

the owner of the block of condos just gives me the blank when asked about it and basically said you have until the 5th of next month to pay it

 

Well he knows, but you lack reading comprehension i guess.

 

Quote

 

By virtue of section 35 bis of the Consumer Protection Act 1979

As amended by the Consumer Protection Act (No. 2), 1998, and Section 3 Section 4 and Section 5 of the Royal Decree defines the criteria and procedures for determining the business.(...)Clause 4 The contract concluded by the business operator with the lessee shall not be subject to any contract of similar nature or meaning as follows:the contract stipulates that the business operator shall determine the tariff for electricity and water supply exceeding rates charged by electricity and water providers.

 

 

[Salerno]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

What ur neighbors paying?

Neighbour gets it free ... due to tapping into the new neighbours supply ????

[mercman24]

yes some still charge 8 baht + and as your contract was written in thai its easy to go un noticed some also charge over the odds for the water,  my leccy is always 550+ baht has been for 2 years, usual tv laptop, big fridge washing machine once a week fan on all day,leccy shower twice a day, nighttime fan on at bottom of the bed, not need air con as a nice sea breeze blowing through but i have had it on when a guest arrives. my water is 35 baht a cu mtr, 105/140 a month , ok does not help you a lot, just sayin, yes move asap, as you signed a contract, you are being ripped off, i cant posibly see how your bill can be that high,

[KneeDeep]

3 hours ago, ryanhull said:

Thanks mate, I completely get you, she still is acting illegally though right? but your idea sounds good in regards to leaving and slipping her 500 bhat,.... well you live and learn and I certainly was a bit of a numptie to sign it in the first place I guess.... don't know why some are shooting me down so badly though heh, cheers Charlie for the reply

 

I disagree with some here.

If you've already had the bill, does that mean you have already been there more than one month?

If so, doesn't that mean you already owe a second month's rent?

 

If so, your first remedy should be to speak to her about the electricity. It really should not be above 5 baht per unit, if as you state, she owns and rents out five or more units there.

 

If she disagrees, you have your reason to move out.  But plan to pay everything that you owe, take pictures of everything in the apartment, so she cannot claim that you owe her for damages and leave before the third month's rent is due. The deposit should cover the inflated bill.

If you talk to her about it now and she makes a fuss, that will give you up to a month to find a new place.

 

It's always best that you are demonstrably within the confines of the law and that you appear wholly reasonable.

You don't want people claiming nasty things about you, claiming unpaid bills and you being blocked at Immigration.

So keep yourself on the right side of the law, even when you strongly suspect that someone is cheating you.

I was in a similar situation and they agreed to drop the price to 5 baht once they realised that I knew the law was on my side.

But be nice about it. No need to destroy your relationship if you do eventually stay there for longer.

[Delight]

The way that I see it is that the co -owner is responsible to the building for payment of bills.

In practice the landlord is then selling to the tenant. Typically with 0% mark up . For convenience the tenant settles the bill.

So the Q is what does the building charge ?

If it is 8 baht then my forementioned description applies.

If it is less then you are being stiffed.

Be prepared to leave before having a meeting with your landlord.

ps I suspect that no co -owners pays 4 Baht-unless it is bought direct from the provider

I pay 5.5 -Thats ok

Remember you get the use of common area lighting-no extra charge.

Everytime you have a shower you add  cost to the condo-2 pumps are used -no extra charge

You use the lift -maybe -no extra charge.

Still -you should only be paying the same as all the other co -owners.

 

[brokenbone]

5 hours ago, ryanhull said:

As you know nothing about me, nor have any idea what type of person I am, I am at a complete loss to why you would 

 

 

 

the fact that you come here and seek moral support for your intent of running from a bill you signed up for,

tells me everything i ever needed to know about what you are

[AlexRich]

Switch off the electric for a month, go native, and confuse the hell out of her. If Mrs is Thai she’ll get used to it. 

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, ryanhull said:

'The law requires landlords to charge electricity and water fees at the standard rates set by utility authorities. For electricity, it is 3.90 baht a unit and tap water 7 baht a unit.'
Source: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1456153/law-calls-halt-to-landlords-cranking-up-bills

Dont believe everything you read in the paper.

 

Water prices vary wildly depending on the method of supply and location. It is common in Pattaya condo buildings for the water to be billed at 40B per unit or more. Why? Because buildings are billed by the water company at the commercial rate which is much higher than the domestic rate. The building then re-bills the water to the individual units. So anyone expecting to pay 7B will be very disappointed.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Delight said:

So the Q is what does the building charge ?

If it is 8 baht then my forementioned description applies.

If it is less then you are being stiffed.

Be prepared to leave before having a meeting with your landlord.

ps I suspect that no co -owners pays 4 Baht-unless it is bought direct from the provider

I pay 5.5 -Thats ok

Remember you get the use of common area lighting-no extra charge.

Everytime you have a shower you add  cost to the condo-2 pumps are used -no extra charge

You use the lift -maybe -no extra charge.

Still -you should only be paying the same as all the other co -owners.

 

Things like corridor lighting and pumps and elevators are generally paid for out of the common fee, not the electricity price.

 

Electricity is normally billed directly by the MEA/PEA to the individual unit. The building generally has nothing to do with it. But if the building is being billed for all electricity and is then re-billing it to individual units then it will also be at the commercial rate.

 

And as I explained, not all units in a building may be paying the domestic rate anyway. Some may be on the commercial rate which is much higher.

[Drax]

800-2000 here per month for 1 bedroom and I’m in my room all day during the 2000 month. Idk how u reach 4k lol. Just save ur time and find a new condo. 

[Delight]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Things like corridor lighting and pumps and elevators are generally paid for out of the common fee, not the electricity price.

 

Electricity is normally billed directly by the MEA/PEA to the individual unit. The building generally has nothing to do with it. But if the building is being billed for all electricity and is then re-billing it to individual units then it will also be at the commercial rate.

 That is too broad a statement.

In my building the mark up (1.5 baht/unit) is specific to keep fees as low as possible.

This means that tenants pay the higher price and also those co -owners who do not reside in the building do not subsidise those who do,

All buildings take a different view

The almost identical  building next door to me only charge 4 Baht. Their fees are 3 to 4  baht/meter higher.

[mike787]

Why are you paying someone to rip you off even more and live with less than you deserve or agreed to????  Heck, if you like just send me your money, I will promise you anything you want to hear.  What do you wish for???  

[moontang]

In between condo trades, I rented a studio in Udon... same deal 8 per unit.  In April, I used 290 units and was not comfortable.. I knew what I was getting into.  Now, new inverter, MEA.. April was 1650 and it was only turned off to clean the filter.. Internet, electric, and quality of ac are extremely important when selecting a rental.  One of the main reasons of me owning.. it really adds to the dividend. I know people paying 17000 per month, and they are stuck with <deleted> Internet and ten year old energy wasting aircon. 

[balo]

21 hours ago, brokenbone said:

8 baht is standard in condos,

Complete nonsense. Most condos are under government contracts.I have never paid more then 4.xx baht / unit, and I have lived in 4 different condos for the last 10 years, 
I pay my electricity bill in 7 eleven , the condo management got nothing to do with it. 

 

Yes you , the OP have been scammed. Get out asap and read the next contract before you sign it . 

Edited June 27, 2019 by balo

[madmen]

 

"Well he knows, but you lack reading comprehension i guess"

My mate and his wife own a block of condos in jomtien 1 per floor and there are 4 floors
Best not to assume.

[onera1961]

On 6/26/2019 at 6:43 AM, ukrules said:

5 Baht is a standard rate in many condos, I have seen it as high as 8 or 9 Baht in the past

Please show me a few published rate of 5BHT in condos. I have never seen it. It is always 7/8 BHT in Bangkok. But we are talking about apartment (or mansion) not real condos. In condos like I rent in Chom Tian, I pay the government rate. There is no mark up. Once in Bankok I confronted the manager of a mansion for charging me 8 BHT, he just said you signed the contract knowing very well the rate is 8 BHT.  Well, I thought he had a point. 

[ukrules]

12 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Please show me a few published rate of 5BHT in condos. I have never seen it. It is always 7/8 BHT in Bangkok. But we are talking about apartment (or mansion) not real condos. In condos like I rent in Chom Tian, I pay the government rate. There is no mark up. Once in Bankok I confronted the manager of a mansion for charging me 8 BHT, he just said you signed the contract knowing very well the rate is 8 BHT.  Well, I thought he had a point. 

I paid 5 Baht a unit myself for many years in Bangkok. I would not have moved in there if they wanted anything more than that.

 

The building was mostly Thai people and I rented from a corporation who owned a load of the units.

 

It's one of the list of things I check for when looking at somewhere to stay.

 

Having said that I've been living in houses in recent years, I pay the bill direct to the electric company these days.

[pookondee]

OP would be better to tell the forum how much it costs him in total, with rent electricity and water and post pics how big (or at least tell meterage) is the room.

 

As others said, the rent could be half of others in the same area, but the power scam could make it comparitively equal in total to others.

 

But really, you fell for the oldest scam in the book...

Rent 2000baht cheaper than all others but utility costs that make it 2000+ more expensive!

 

Id guess its one of those huge old aircons that cover the whole side of the rooms?

 

If so, id be telling her to buy a new aircon NOW or you are out of there.

Doing anything dodgy will not work out any better and only get you in possible trouble in the long run, as they have your passport copy and at the end of the day, you signed a document that said you agreed to the terms and charges thereunder.

 

 

 

 

[madmen]

3 hours ago, pookondee said:

OP would be better to tell the forum how much it costs him in total, with rent electricity and water and post pics how big (or at least tell meterage) is the room.

 

As others said, the rent could be half of others in the same area, but the power scam could make it comparitively equal in total to others.

 

But really, you fell for the oldest scam in the book...

Rent 2000baht cheaper than all others but utility costs that make it 2000+ more expensive!

 

Id guess its one of those huge old aircons that cover the whole side of the rooms?

 

If so, id be telling her to buy a new aircon NOW or you are out of there.

Doing anything dodgy will not work out any better and only get you in possible trouble in the long run, as they have your passport copy and at the end of the day, you signed a document that said you agreed to the terms and charges thereunder.

 

 

 

 

Exactly his total rent excluding water is 8500k .  it could be the cheapest in town ..nothing wrong if the owner cuts the rent by 2k and then makes it up on the backend (same same but...) if its still a good deal, its just creative marketing. OP needs to calm down and decide if 8500k is a rip off or an awesome deal

[blackcab]

7 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Please show me a few published rate of 5BHT in condos.

 

The company I work for owns apartment buildings in Bangkok. The company charges the tenants 5 baht per unit, which is fractionally more than we are charged.

 

We charge tenants 16 baht per unit for water, which is fractionally less than we are charged.

[NanLaew]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:03 PM, ryanhull said:

I could just pack up and leave and tell her to take me to court for the electric, I could pay it and stay and give in, I could I am told by a Thai friend report her (that's only going to bring trouble to my door), really I do not have a lot of options I guess but to pay it and continue to be scammed moving forward? 

Or, you could pay the bill and give notice of vacating. Go find another digs and read the small print next time.

 

Write-off the big electric bill to inexperience. Refusing to pay isn't an option, especially if one plans to stay. Taking a single landlord to court over what is ultimately a small amount of money that the OP admits is already covered by the rental deposit is a non-starter unless he finds a lawyer willing to waste the OP's time and money.

[JimmyJ]

One of the 1st responses suggested turning off all electric in your unit and watching the meter.

Did you do that?

 

If it was me:

1) The landlady is causing you to waste a lot of time, and the expenses of moving,  if you move out.

She will not be reimbursing you for that.

 

If there will be no legal consequences, I would not pay her anything and leave.

 

Posters are always writing that it is not worth it financially to take a landlord to court to recover deposit money being unlawfully withheld.

Why would it work the other way for the landlord? How can it be worth it to her to hire a lawyer over 4k THB?

 

2) Whether you pay her or not, definitely report this to the Thai office in charge of enforcing the new law.

Perhaps there will be no consequences for her as many will foresee in this forum, but landlords will continue doing this unless there are consequences.

Perhaps the agency will take action, and you will be saving future tenants from being ripped off.

At least make the attempt - perhaps 10 minutes of your time.

[NanLaew]

56 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Why would it work the other way for the landlord? How can it be worth it to her to hire a lawyer over 4k THB?

But it doesn't and both parties will bear a financial burden for any legal action and challenging it. But we're not concerned about the landlord's legal costs are we? The point is that it is a waste of money for the OP, the tenant.

[zoza]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:51 PM, ryanhull said:

Thanks for your input, and thanks for you hoping me to get into trouble legally... appreciated.

However, the following attachment would show that the landlord is acting illegally. Now I am not exacly disputing the bill per say, but the amount of units been used in my condo, so lets say the aircon is faulty, or there meter is even faulty, surely its the landlord job to check this out? and surely its the landlords job to act within the law which I have attatched here. You are contradicting most of the replies I have had here in this sentence

 

According to the law, and according to replies on this very post, 8bhat is not standard and double what I should be paying, should I believe you, the guy who wishes bad luck to me, or the more helpful posts in which people are actually trying to help me get to the bottom of this aka, could be a problem in the meter, the aircon unit etc? 

As you know nothing about me, nor have any idea what type of person I am, I am at a complete loss to why you would 

 

 

Why would you feel such to someone who is merely concerned about an electric bill given its well over the going rate and against the rate of the Thai law?

'The law requires landlords to charge electricity and water fees at the standard rates set by utility authorities. For electricity, it is 3.90 baht a unit and tap water 7 baht a unit.'
Source: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1456153/law-calls-halt-to-landlords-cranking-up-bills

'The new law prevents landlords from over-charging extra charges for things like water, electricity and Wi-Fi. Rather, they must charge only what the landlord was actually billed.'
http://www.thailawforum.com/new-thai-lease-law-empowers-renters/

 

So I really do not see your comment here in regards it should be me whos penalized for this and its me whos the one committing crime, and you wish me bad consequences from what? being concerned I am being over charged on my electric bill after reading the thai law which has been in force since may 2018? I may be loosing my marbles here but I think your wrong in your posts. 

 

Thanks all the same, I wish you good luck, not bad ????

a long time ago I had a problem with my electric bill, just by accident

a lad who run the internet shop said he would look at the reading of my

meter ? as he was all suited and booted the manager of the building sorted

the bill out in my favour, after seeing the lad taking pictures of the meter

he had it taken out (he said it was faulty) as most of these cowboys do not

want anybody who is thai and looks official looking at their stuff.

these rip-off guys do not like any one checking them out.