UK PM Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

It's not at all as I see things. EU clearly said many times that she doesn't want a no-deal exit, but what Boris is asking is a country (or group of) to accept to not have any control on a part of its frontier! It's just unacceptable.

As a hard border between the 2 Irelands is also inacceptable by all countries involved, the only solution found until now is this temporary backstop.

EU will agree to remove it... as soon as "alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border".

So what are these alternative arrangements that Boris propose? None...  (AFAIK).

The only way not to have a 'no deal' is to agree to a deal, everyone must understand whether remainer or leaver that Mays deal is as dead as a dodo. There is a new kid on the block now, there hopefully will be none of this pussy footing as Mrs May did, if the EU won't agree to talk to Boris about a deal, as good as Boris is we will have to walk away without a deal.

So by the EU saying they don't want a no deal exit, they are the only ones that can remedy the situation, the ball is in their court so to speak.

[Jip99]

51 minutes ago, Opl said:

it's a lose-lose situation, so face it as you voted for it, but don't expect Germans, French, the rest of the E.U to abide by your conditions since they did not vote.

It's no deal or no Brexit and of course, the rest of the E.U will suffer the consequencies much more than necessary, but as "Britain Trump" claimed, there are opportunities for the UK.

And don't forget to " Always blame the French" when it suits your agenda. 

  

  

 

Shame you see No Deal as lose-lose.......   whilst not my preferred route of getting out of the EU, it will still be a win.

 

 

I might be wrong but I thought Article 50 was drafted by secretary-general of the European Convention, which drafted the Constitutional Treaty for the European Union

[tomacht8]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

The only way not to have a 'no deal' is to agree to a deal, everyone must understand whether remainer or leaver that Mays deal is as dead as a dodo. There is a new kid on the block now, there hopefully will be none of this pussy footing as Mrs May did, if the EU won't agree to talk to Boris about a deal, as good as Boris is we will have to walk away without a deal.

So by the EU saying they don't want a no deal exit, they are the only ones that can remedy the situation, the ball is in their court so to speak.

This is infantile kindergarten logic. It's about responsibility for over 500 million people and their living conditions.

[RickBradford]

14 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

The leader of the house is Jacob Rees-Mogg  and it is the attorney general who provides legal government advice, not an extremist of the ERG clan

Are you saying that Rees-Mogg is factually wrong?

[geoffbezoz]

2 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Are you saying that Rees-Mogg is factually wrong?

Rees-Mogg will quite frankly say anything to suit his own agenda. All I was telling was who the person who can legally advise the government  on legal matters and that is not Rees-Mogg, rather it is only the Attorney General.

[RickBradford]

1 minute ago, geoffbezoz said:

Rees-Mogg will quite frankly say anything to suit his own agenda. All I was telling was who the person who can legally advise the government  on legal matters and that is not Rees-Mogg, rather it is only the Attorney General.

And do you believe that Rees-Mogg has not sought legal advice on this matter before making his public statements?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

This is infantile kindergarten logic. It's about responsibility for over 500 million people and their living conditions.

If infantile logic is speaking the truth, so be it. How is letting 500 million people suffer just because Barnier and co don't want to lose face. As I said the EU are the only people that can make everybodies lives better, should they chose to carry on with their cavalier attitude that is their problem and nobody elses.

Incidentally it is not always necessary to add insults to your posts.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Are you saying that Rees-Mogg is factually wrong?

You invoking the term 'leader of the House of Commons' whilst referring to Rees-Mogg is a blatant attempt to appear impartial while quoting a brexiteer's words.

Edited July 28, 2019 by stevenl

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

If infantile logic is speaking the truth, so be it. How is letting 500 million people suffer just because Barnier and co don't want to lose face. As I said the EU are the only people that can make everybodies lives better, should they chose to carry on with their cavalier attitude that is their problem and nobody elses.

Incidentally it is not always necessary to add insults to your posts.

"that is their problem and nobody elses."

This whole mess is everybody's problem.

[Laughing Gravy]

29 minutes ago, Opl said:

It's a repeated assertion you made that the E.U wants to punish the UK for leaving .

This is now accepted by ardent Europhiles and remainers. I could go on all day, It is clearly documented and undeniable.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-senior-german-mep-eu-negotiators-punish-britain-hans-olaf-henkel-theresa-may-michel-a7848221.html

 

https://www.businessinsider.sg/eu-will-happily-punish-britain-for-greek-fallacy-on-brexit-2019-1/?r=US&IR=T

 

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-eu-document-shows-brexit-punishment-plan-11239487

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/19/eus-brexit-chiefs-want-punish-britain-stop-countries-leaving/

 

 

 

 

[RickBradford]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

You invoking the term 'leader of the House of Commons' whilst referring to Rees-Mogg is a blatant attempt to appear impartial while it are brexiteer's words.

That is a very silly post - you are trying to create a fight out of nothing.

 

I am simply offering the information that Mr Rees-Mogg has made those statements while acting as Leader of the House of Commons.

 

You really don't need to get out the smelling salts for this one.

[sammieuk1]

Opinions and aspirations of the rich being used to club the poor ill informed in the game of chance as the remainders will see the unmovable EU as Boris's secret weapon????   

[vogie]

22 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Your are right. All suffer with this Brexit nonsense. There is no logic in it.

It gives only losers under the actors.

The winners of the European discord are the USA, China and Russia. 

It is only "Brexit nonsense" to you, you look at the EU with a different pair of spectacles than we do, we have given our reasons for the last 3 years, if you have not picked up why we want to leave that is not our fault, however just to show there is no hard feelings, we will still trade with you, we just don't want to stand to attention every time 'Ode to Joy' is played.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

That is a very silly post - you are trying to create a fight out of nothing.

 

I am simply offering the information that Mr Rees-Mogg has made those statements while acting as Leader of the House of Commons.

 

You really don't need to get out the smelling salts for this one.

And if you would have written that it would have been ok. But you purposefully left out the name of the 'leader of the House of Commons' to appear impartial. But enough of that, point has been made.

[hansnl]

4 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

"Speaking before a Stephenson's Rocket, a 19th century steam locomotive, in the northern England city of Manchester "

 

How ironic that he was speaking there when him and his dinosaur Brexiteers are intent on trying to put the UK back to their glory days of the 19th Century.

 

Time moves on Mr Johnson and accept that the UK has had its day, its some other countries turn now to dominate.

Yes, time moves on.

Tell that to the EUrophiles in Brussel.

Democracy has been raped enough by those autocratic mob, now intent on destroying the UK as an example for other countries that might even harbour the idea of leaving that undemocratic bloc.

And all out of fear the UK might eventually come out of this succesfull.

And some other countries taking a lead?

You mean France?

A country tottering on the brink of collapse.

Germany?

Bad enough seen its historical track record.

But if you are happy with these two, enjoy it.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by hansnl

[cleopatra2]

36 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Note that the Leader of the House of Commons has stated publicly in the past few days that Parliament has already agreed to leaving, by invoking Article 50 and passing the Withdrawal Act.

 

That is, the legal default is to leave on Oct. 31, with or without a deal.

 

The only ways to prevent that, he said, are a new law (overturning the Withdrawal Act) or a new government (which may renegotiate with the EU).

The only issue is Art 50 process starts a process in motion. Whilst it stipulates a time period of 2 years it also allowed for this to be extended.

To fully leave the EU , the UK needs to repeal the 1972 ECA.

The relevant provisions in the Withdrawal Act to repeal the ECA have not yet been brought into force.

 

[transam]

20 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

This is infantile kindergarten logic. It's about responsibility for over 500 million people and their living conditions.

"Infantile kindergarten logic"....What a daft statement...

 

How's your retirement home....? ....Well your stuff does read like dementia...    ????

[NoBrainer]

4 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

How ironic that he was speaking there when him and his dinosaur Brexiteers are intent on trying to put the UK back to their glory days of the 19th Century.

And so what was wrong with "The Glory Days of the 19th Century"?

 

All this globalization & Homogonization of the worlds population is the problem. Just face it, more than half go the worlds people are lazy, and have no ambition whatsoever. That is becoming even more prevalent as time goes on.

So who is supposed to pay for this new world order, socialist experiment, where every lazy person get's everything for free?

Are you volunteering your hard earned money to to pay families of immigrants 10's of thousands of pounds per month?

I think it is well overdue, to take the UK back to the glory days, where everyone was British, and they all pulled their weight to make the country great.

 

What has happened to the UK over the past 30 years is a tragedy of the highest order.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

Sound like: Give me all I want or I kill myself.

Go ahead! Nobody will stop you.

 

But it's sad for the Remainers that they have to live with such a PM (and the other half who support him).

[Jip99]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sound like: Give me all I want or I kill myself.

Go ahead! Nobody will stop you.

 

But it's sad for the Remainers that they have to live with such a PM (and the other half who support him).

 

 

What is sad is that too many Remoaners do not have the good grace to accept the outcome of a referendum.

[aright]

35 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

What is sad is that too many Remoaners do not have the good grace to accept the outcome of a referendum.

I agree but it's not only respect for the outcome of a referendum it's also their blindness to what the EU has become and a lack of concern about its direction of travel and growing dissatisfaction within the Union. They keep saying we need to work from within but when you ask them how they have no answer. 

It's surprising that almost no journalists mention one man who has seen the stifling  of democracy in the EU over the last thirty years, who has given speech after speech pointing out its many flaws, who has faced insults and violence .  A man who hasn't vacillated as 95% of our MPs have but stood by his standards through thick and thin.

I refer to, of course, Nigel Farage who has given the UK Brexit and a chance to break away from the EU Prison, its planned destiny.  What really put the wind up the MPs, including Boris Johnson was the European elections where one man and him alone showed how many Britons still want Brexit, still wanted their freedom although it might mean they may be poorer for a while. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by aright

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

Shame you see No Deal as lose-lose.......   whilst not my preferred route of getting out of the EU, it will still be a win.

 

 

I might be wrong but I thought Article 50 was drafted by secretary-general of the European Convention, which drafted the Constitutional Treaty for the European Union

 

Here is a link to article 50 which is quite interesting to read.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/article-50.asp

[OneMoreFarang]

21 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

What is sad is that too many Remoaners do not have the good grace to accept the outcome of a referendum.

You mean the promises that there will be no downside of Brexit?

And you mean the promise that the UK EU trade deal will be very easy?

You mean that they can have the cake and eat it?

Tell me, who voted for that?

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You mean the promises that there will be no downside of Brexit?

And you mean the promise that the UK EU trade deal will be very easy?

You mean that they can have the cake and eat it?

Tell me, who voted for that?

 

 

There is a downside to everything. I knew that when I voted to Leave.

 

That the UK will come through this is not in doubt. The EU would serve it's own interest better by agreeing an appropriate trade deal

[transam]

51 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

What is sad is that too many Remoaners do not have the good grace to accept the outcome of a referendum.

Think most remainer's on here are worried about their cash across the channel ...Well a few from here have gone missing .................

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

There is a downside to everything. I knew that when I voted to Leave.

 

That the UK will come through this is not in doubt. The EU would serve it's own interest better by agreeing an appropriate trade deal

The EU is ready for a "appropriate trade deal".

But that deal does not include lots of cake and lots of cherries. Which part of that is so difficult to understand?

[Emdog]

This "punishment" is self inflicted and could have been anticipated by reasonable, reality based, slightly intelligent people.

If I quit a club, my decision, the club is not punishing me if they no longer allow me to dine at their restaurant. If I break up with a woman, I can't complain she no longer is willing to have sex with me.

[tomacht8]

49 minutes ago, vogie said:

If infantile logic is speaking the truth, so be it. How is letting 500 million people suffer just because Barnier and co don't want to lose face. As I said the EU are the only people that can make everybodies lives better, should they chose to carry on with their cavalier attitude that is their problem and nobody elses.

Incidentally it is not always necessary to add insults to your posts.

It is not about face. 

That would be childish or Not?

The UK wants to quit. Good.

The UK will lose its previous access to the single market with all the consequences.

This also means clear border crossings and new tariffs and clearance procedures.

The EU's system is of course to protect domestic productions and ensure quality standards. That is existential.

Otherwise the EU could close there shop.

This principle is one of the pillars on which the EU is based. Why should the remaining 27 states abandon this principle unilaterally for the good of the UK and inflict themselves? That will never happen.

 

And again, a UK PM, now BJ, has positioned itself with its campaign retorik in a corner from which there is no way out except the crash down of all good relations.

 

with the result that it will come to a significant deterioration in the living conditions of all ordinary citizens. Quite apart from the geopolitical consequences.

 

And who advocates this "destructivemess"

with clapping hands for which it is, from my side no compliments.

 

Sorry that has nothing to do with responsible politics to the well of all EU citizens (including the UK).

That's kindergarten level.

 

The will to work out a common, realistic, long-term roadmap is not there at all.

 

The whole Brexit is so far characterized by short-term, propagandist election campaign and power games of a few.

 

What will be the best for the people in Europe ( UK included) in the long term, is out of interest. The fear of these short-term politicians that majorities change, is far too great.

 

The preparation of a reasonable Brexit plan with the least possible damage for all, is a long-term task, and not with populism in 3 months to create without serious damage.

 

 

 

 

. 

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, transam said:

"Infantile kindergarten logic"....What a daft statement...

 

How's your retirement home....? ....Well your stuff does read like dementia...    ????

I've never read of a reasonable pro brexit argument from you. But thanks for your funny posts.

[Pumpuynarak]

25 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

There is a downside to everything. I knew that when I voted to Leave.

 

That the UK will come through this is not in doubt. The EU would serve it's own interest better by agreeing an appropriate trade deal

Bingo, the UK will be a short term loser, the EU will be a short and long term loser.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Pumpuynarak