Expat group launches online petition calling for TM.30 to be scrapped

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Guitar God said:

Could you explain section 37 or give a link?

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/

Section 37, subsections 2-4 (Foreigners who entered Thailand legally are exempt from 3 and 4) = Form TM28

Section 38 = Form TM30

Edited July 29, 2019 by jackdd

[Wilsonandson]

I hope they know what they've done..... It's gonna hurt when they jab that microchip into ya!
 
(You want to stick it where????)
 
Come on guys, it is time we made our presence known. There are too many of us supporting Thai families and sick buffalos.

Hope you registered that sick buffalo. Failure to do so constitutes a violation of the animal welfare act of 1972. In which it states "All sick buffalo sponsored by a member of the expat community must be registered at your local police station". That's what I herd. Lol.

[FarFlungFalang]

19 minutes ago, rexall said:

The level of convenience or inconvenience is not the main issue.  It is a lot more than a pain, it is a really BAD thing.  Think about it. Someone just might ask you to report those Jews hiding in your attic!

You mean like that bad Jewish girl Anne Frank?

[rexall]

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

.....and just exactly what are these "hints"?

Seems to me, they want foreigners with money, which is understandable, and to get rid of the cheap charlies. Also understandable.

If cheap charlies' were abusing or placing some kind of burden on Thailand, what you say might make some sense. However, it is not a crime to be poor, and even those who are not monied, still spend money and contribute to the economy in their cheap charlie ways.

[ThaiLawOnline]

7 hours ago, Monkeyrobot said:

I would also be sending a copy of the Petition to Bangkok post and The Nation. 

 

I would LOVE you to do it. We already wrote to Bangkok Post. You can send them a message too. There is also advertising on Facebook to boost post. You can not imagine how much work was put into that. If people do not believe in it, up to them. And if I am deported, please make a petition for me!!!!!  ????

[Mikisteel]

Just now, Isaanlawyers said:

 

I would LOVE you to do it. We already wrote to Bangkok Post. You can send them a message too. There is also advertising on Facebook to boost post. You can not imagine how much work was put into that. If people do not believe in it, up to them. And if I am deported, please make a petition for me!!!!!  ????

Why would you be deported? Are you a criminal or something?

[ThaiLawOnline]

We added a section with COMMENTS on website. Read the stories, some are pretty bad.

It is not just TM30, but also TM28. And for 90 days, let's hope their application work online.

It is often down. We want a dialogue with immigration. We want to show SOME of the problems. Slowly but surely.

 

[ThaiLawOnline]

1 minute ago, Mikisteel said:

Why would you be deported? Are you a criminal or something?

With the current government, everyone raising a voice should be concerned. We believe this is respectful. Defamation laws are very strict in Thailand. We must be careful.

 

I have permanent residency. I don't do visa, I don't do TM 30 or TM28. I wish to help the community with my experience with the Thai authorities. Hope it helps you one day.

[garyk]

When pigs fly. Thailand will change. Rules changed, and others rigidly enforced? What does it take for you to understand what is going on? You think it's bad now just wait!

Edited July 29, 2019 by garyk

[khaowong1]

You and I both know how much the Thai govt. cares about what the falangs think. 

[rexall]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

Yep, to a degree (18 years) - each year initially renewing extension for employment, then retirement and later marriage has always been fairly easy although there was always the nagging thought of "what-if" if the IO had got out of bed on the wrong side that morning - - but of late the potential for a major problem being raised always  seems to be there, irrespective of always toeing-the-line, on time, correct paper work etc.. Must admit it's always been easy - but the underlying "what-if" now seems more likely where-as for long term visa holders it should be getting easier. 

Whether or not it is deliberate in the sense of being conspiratorial, that "what-if" is intentional. You are not supposed to feel too safe and comfortable. You are not supposed to feel too much like this is "home" because it isn't. You are a visitor here on a temporary stay.  Know you place. Don't get uppity, and maybe we will allow you to continue to stay ... for awhile longer ... until we change our minds.

Ouch!  Please sir, can I have another?  

[garyk]

3 minutes ago, khaowong1 said:

You and I both know how much the Thai govt. cares about what the falangs think. 

Yeah, the expats are in serious denial. 

[Mikisteel]

Just now, Isaanlawyers said:

With the current government, everyone raising a voice should be concerned. We believe this is respectful. Defamation laws are very strict in Thailand. We must be careful.

 

I have permanent residency. I don't do visa, I don't do TM 30 or TM28. I wish to help the community with my experience with the Thai authorities. Hope it helps you one day.

So you are risking a lot if you think this could get you deported. 

[alan grice]

Ive been here long time. Dont know what it is , some old bit of paper they gave me at Airport years ago ?.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[rexall]

35 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

You mean like that bad Jewish girl Anne Frank?

Well, they murdered her for not filing a TM30.  So, I guess it must be some other bad Jewish girl.

[DrTuner]

44 minutes ago, jackdd said:

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/

Section 37, subsections 2-4 (Foreigners who entered Thailand legally are exempt from 3 and 4) = Form TM28

Section 38 = Form TM30

Not a very good translation.. 'The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.'

 

I read that as the Director General (of MFA or immigration police?) says which ones mentioned in the section 34 must do the 24h province to province parole check. I seem to remember looking into this years ago and went down the gazette rabbit hole where I just gave up trying to find what the Director General has said. Again one of those things that can change in seconds.

[RBOP]

Just to calm some fears of the ones saying or thinking you will be deported by signing this petition;  I wrote to the collective who setup the website as I was starting to have my own fears about how the petition was going to be handled. Here are the main points they replied to me:  

 

"....The signatures are encrypted. It means when they confirm their email, that, we don't see and it's protected.............

We will not reveal names to immigration. We are not stupid. Website is abroad. We will make a backup. ........... I am the one risking things here. But this was a collective effort, at least 50 people worked on it, no matter how many English mistakes there are......"....

 

They are doing great work and hope this will make a change for the betterment of all that live here. 

Cheers

[lkv]

14 minutes ago, RBOP said:

We will not reveal names to immigration. We are not stupid.

Right. So say I'm Immigration.

 

How would I know that the number I see on the website is real, if you don't give me the names?

 

You might as well modify it now into 100,000, and claim that 100,000 people have signed it.

 

Secondly, how is this a matter of public Thai interest?

 

Tourist numbers will go up this year, TAT will make sure they do, even if they don't. And anyways, that's due to the "high baht", nothing to do with TM30.

 

Expat long term visitors numbers, who is interested in that?

Edited July 29, 2019 by lkv

[garyk]

Personally I really don't understand why all the complaining. I lived in Thailand for 10 great years. But, before I moved there I researched the retirement rules, and after living there for one trial year. I understood it could change very fast.  And the mind set of the Thai is extract as much money from the stupid farang as possible? That is just the way it is in Thailand. 

 

[Mikisteel]

I tell you what's weird. How come we do not here people living on islands in uproar about this. If the problem is so big how come you never hear the islanders stories who in some cases have to travel inland to report.

 

 

 

 

[RBOP]

13 minutes ago, lkv said:

Right. So say I'm Immigration.

 

How would I know that the number I see on the website is real, if you don't give me the names?

 

You might as well modify it now into 100,000, and claim that 100,000 people have signed it.

 

So so futile.

 

Waste of time.

Not at all. Because the ones doing this are reputable and the signing up has to be verified my a real person (not a robot). So just sign it and lets see what happens. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by RBOP
spelling

[lkv]

5 minutes ago, RBOP said:

Not all. Because the ones doing this are reputable and the signing up has to be verified my a real person (not a robot). So just sign it and lets see what happens. 

If you were to have any dialogue (unlikely), how will you prove to Immigration that the numbers on the website are not fake?

 

They are substantiated by....what exactly?

 

(From their point of view)

 

They'll just take your word for it or...

Edited July 29, 2019 by lkv

[madmen]

Ha ha people worrying about being deported for signing this petition? what a bunch of soft dicks. Countless posts slagging of the PM every day with IP numbers on display and people are worried about this?. Just sign it and stop being babies

[KhaoYai]

Members here are very hard to understand. Last year when I posted about TM30 becoming an issue I got loads of replies saying things like "it will never happen", "rubbish, not needed" and other such negative comments.

 

Fast forward around 12 months and reports start coming in on people being fined for not filing TM28/TM30.......hate to say it but..............I told you so! Then people start worrying and don't seem to understand what to do.

 

Now, someone tries to do something about the problem and gets lots of negative comments on here. Better than sitting on your backsides moaning!

 

"They don't want us here", They are making it difficult for us here". Bla Bla Bla........try getting a visa for your wife to live in the UK, then you'll learn what difficult is! More hoops  to jump through than there are on a Karen girl's neck.

 

Try living in the UK for more than 6 months as a visitor or even worse, try living in most European countries long term unless your applying on marriage grounds. Set of whingers!

 

 

[RBOP]

6 minutes ago, lkv said:

If you were to have any dialogue (unlikely), how will you prove to Immigration that the numbers on the website are not fake?

 

They are substantiated by....what exactly?

 

(From their point of view)

We will hopefully rely on heroes like Richard Barrow, and the likes to be called in for constructive dialogue.  

Edited July 29, 2019 by RBOP
removed AB

[lamyai3]

53 minutes ago, rexall said:

The level of convenience or inconvenience is not the main issue.  It is a lot more than a pain, it is a really BAD thing.  Think about it. Someone just might ask you to report those Jews hiding in your attic!

I think this is what makes it newsworthy. 24 hour reporting of movements on pain of a fine or refusal of an extension is excessive by any standards, and smacks of the worst regimes of the past century. While the foreign media would have little interest in internal issues such as the scrapping of income letters (however shoddily that was done), anything that brings to mind Nazi Germany or the repressive freedoms of the Cold War era would sell like hotcakes. Headlines like "Shockwaves in Thailand as regime enforces Stasi era mass-surveillance of expats" would make for a startling read to all those who thought the country was a benign and happy place to consider retirement.

[lkv]

8 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Now, someone tries to do something about the problem and gets lots of negative comments on here. Better than sitting on your backsides moaning!

 

What do you expect. To tell them how succesful they will be, if I see holes in it?

 

You go do this in Cambodia better, Hun Sen will be thrilled. Or in China.

 

Somehow people assume Thailand is different. I am not sure why.

[Artisi]

7 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

I think this is what makes it newsworthy. 24 hour reporting of movements on pain of a fine or refusal of an extension is excessive by any standards, and smacks of the worst regimes of the past century. While the foreign media would have little interest in internal issues such as the scrapping of income letters (however shoddily that was done), anything that brings to mind Nazi Germany or the repressive freedoms of the Cold War era would sell like hotcakes. Headlines like "Shockwaves in Thailand as regime enforces Stasi era mass-surveillance of expats" would make for a startling read to all those who thought the country was a benign and happy place to consider retirement.

suggestion - send it to a few O/S newspapers and see what their reaction is.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Wilsonandson said:

Hope you registered that sick buffalo. Failure to do so constitutes a violation of the animal welfare act of 1972. In which it states "All sick buffalo sponsored by a member of the expat community must be registered at your local police station". That's what I herd. Lol.

TM what No ???????

[KhaoYai]

12 minutes ago, lkv said:

What do you expect. To tell them how succesful they will be, if I see holes in it?

No, I expect you to support anyone trying to help. The people behind this effort have far more experience of Thailand in general than either you or I do. I'm am pretty sure they know the difficulties in achieving success.

 

In general, does anyone claiming that this is a waste of time, have any experience of others trying to hold a constructive dialogue with Thai Immigration? Somehow I doubt it.