TM30 - is anybody actually clear on this?

[Peterw42]

10 hours ago, Barry864 said:

How can you set up an account to see if a tenant can really do that for himself ?

Anybody got a link ?

EDIT : I found the link and only owners of the property are supposed to register  giving details of property ID etc. What is this "possessor" status some people are advocating ? Is it legal ?

 

Here is the link

 

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

 

And here is a screen shot of the pull down menu for possessor to register. (the position pull down menu has different options depending on what is selected in the accommodation type field)

 

[schlemmi]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Here is the link

 

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

 

And here is a screen shot of the pull down menu for possessor to register. (the position pull down menu has different options depending on what is selected in the accommodation type field)

 

If there is no housebook with a person as เจ้าบ้าน indicated and there is no rental contract or other evidence. The original thai text means: The person actually is in posession of the place wher the foeinger lives. This not have to be a real house, it could be a boat, a ship, a camp for workers and anything else where the foreinger could live.   A tent on a pice of land could be too. Here the posessor of the land where the tent is installed would be in duty.

Edited August 4, 2019 by schlemmi
Misswriting due to smartphone typing corrected.

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, schlemmi said:

If there is no housebook with a person as เจ้าบ้าน indicated and there is no rental contract or other evidence. The original thai text means: The person actually is in posession of the place wher the foeinger lives. This not have to be a real house, it could be a boat, a ship, a camp for workers and anything else where the foreinger could live.   A tent on a pice of land could be too. Here the posessor of the land where the tent is installed would be in duty.

Ship, tent or vacant land isnt on the list of accommodation types. if a property doesn't have a blue book (and property number from blue book) its not a property in the terms of TM30 online system.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Peterw42

[schlemmi]

1 hour ago, schlemmi said:

If there is no housebook with a person as เจ้าบ้าน indicated and there is no rental contract or other evidence. The original thai text means: The person actually is in posession of the place wher the foeinger lives. This not have to be a real house, it could be a boat, a ship, a camp for workers and anything else where the foreinger could live.   A tent on a pice of land could be too. Here the posessor of the land where the tent is installed would be in duty.

But its in the definition what เคหะสถาน means. You refer to the menu ผู้ครอบครองเดหะสภาน.

Here is ผู้ครอบครอง the possessor (not necessarily the owner) and เคหะสภาน what i explained already. This is defined in one article near the top of this act.

[KhunFred]

When visiting another province with my girlfriend, she always puts the hotel bill on her Thai ID. I have never been asked for my passport or other information,so there is no record that I have been away from my address. Most Thais find it a bit nutty to have to report after spending the night away from my usual address. Some of them did not seem to believe me when I told them that this was the law.

[ThaiBunny]

9 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Most Thais find it a bit nutty to have to report after spending the night away from my usual address. Some of them did not seem to believe me when I told them that this was the law.

I wonder how many people in your home country find some of the laws there "nutty". This happens to be one of Thailand's laws, like it or not

[Date Masamune]

22 hours ago, theoldgit said:

I'm pretty sure that IO's aren't completely clear on this either.

On my return from a two week trip within Thailand this week, staying at four different hotels in three different provinces, I presented myself to my local immigration office, where I was told I didn't need to report as I hadn't left the country, a mate of mine went to the same office yesterday, probably a different IO, and was advised that he needs to "check in" if he visits another province for 24 hours or more. 

If IO's in one small office can give conflicting advice, how on earth are we supposed to get it right?

When they started TM 30 enforcement a few years ago in Chiang Mai I was given this conflicting information by two officers at the same desk. When asked for clarification after my 1600 baht fine was paid one of them literally said "Up to you". Like they would be happy to take it again?

 

[Fairynuff]

As long as the IO has the discretion to do what they want with the written law there will never be any clarity. It’s a stupid law that can never achieve what it’s supposed to. However it IS the law and because they’ve resurrected it we have to comply. Now that they’ve seen it’s a cash cow it WILL be enforced as long as they can catch us out. When most of us comply and they don’t make enough they’ll probably stop the enforcement again.

[murraynz]

23 hours ago, theoldgit said:

I'm pretty sure that IO's aren't completely clear on this either.

On my return from a two week trip within Thailand this week, staying at four different hotels in three different provinces, I presented myself to my local immigration office, where I was told I didn't need to report as I hadn't left the country, a mate of mine went to the same office yesterday, probably a different IO, and was advised that he needs to "check in" if he visits another province for 24 hours or more. 

If IO's in one small office can give conflicting advice, how on earth are we supposed to get it right?

i think this story sums the 'weird immigration variations'- perfectly..

this is also why many of us use agents for visa etc---NOT  because we want illegal visa, but simply because we are intolerant of the ever changing demands of immigration..the corruption will never end..

[Parsve]

I have a feeling that one of the problems is that different IO:s do not coordinate the information provided via TM30. When, after living in another province for six months, I returned and asked if we should submit a TM30, I received the answer that it was not necessary because I was already registered at the address. And I am sure that I was registred at the second place as I delivered the TM 30 there by my self, since we had not submitted any TM 30 after comming back, I must have been registered at least at two addresses at the same time.

[Parsve]

And yes, the law say that a TM30 should be delivered if you stay within another province over night, but it also say that TM30 is for always knowing where farrangs are, so only if you go to another province would not help much in that case, if you spend whatever number of nights at a friends house in the same province as you live, they will not get a clue of where you are if he not report. I know that for instance in Chonburi the IO demand a report as soon a you change adress, even within the same town. About a year ago there was several reports here on TV about people that had to pay a fee because they had changed hotel and it was not reported.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Parsve
Misspelling

[MadMuhammad]

I’ve had my rental contract for over a year now.

Chon Buri Immigration only want us to report when leaving the country. I have left Thailand 6 or more times on the last 18 months and they’ve stated this in each and every occasion. 

 

The initial notification was done my my landlord. All others were done by me as the possessor. 

The first time I notified I took in my rental contract, copy of owners ID & owners Tabian Baan plus my details. Now I just take my passport with my last notification receipt and filled in TM30 and it gets processed 

[Scorpion364]

6 hours ago, schlemmi said:

Please explain on detail. I like to know the following:

a) Did they go in person or used they someone to send the passports together with the tm47 90 days teport?

 

b) Are they their own housemasters and in duty to do the tm30 report or is another person the housemaster?

 

c) Do i understad right, they not get the receipt slip of the tm47 90 days report form?

 

d) How are they get fined and how much?  The person who transfered the passport paid or they get a ticket to pay?

 

e) Do they have any evidence about this case. Do they have whitness. Do they know the name of the IO?

The following is based a little on educated guesswork:

A) A messenger will have gone to Immigration with all the passports

B) No. Another person.

C) Correct.

D) 800B. This needed to be paid before they could get their 90 days stamp. I do not know the process of how the money was paid. I guess the passports were returned to school unstamped, and the teachers in question had to cough up the 800B, before the passports were then returned to Immigration for the stamps.

E) I don't think it's something that needs questioning or evidencing. If my friend says it happened, it happened. I don't think it is reasonable to suspect anything else, because this IS actually the law.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Scorpion364

[fourpack]

Instead of all this well I was told. My mate was told. 

Why not get down to your local brown envelope whoops sorry Immigration office and ask them what there rules are. 

Mine as I asked not 4 days ago. Only if I move then I need to do a tm28 and TM 30. If I don't move I don't have to even if I leave country and return to same address. 

Always better getting it from the horse's mouth.

[flynn]

I have been in and out of the country many times , the first time I went to Jomtien to do my tm30 on return and I told them I would be in and out of the country, they said if I was returning to the same address I would not have to report again. 

[schlemmi]

4 minutes ago, flynn said:

I have been in and out of the country many times , the first time I went to Jomtien to do my tm30 on return and I told them I would be in and out of the country, they said if I was returning to the same address I would not have to report again. 

I am verry  proud of them.

[Scorpion364]

8 minutes ago, fourpack said:

Instead of all this well I was told. My mate was told. 

Why not get down to your local brown envelope whoops sorry Immigration office and ask them what there rules are. 

Mine as I asked not 4 days ago. Only if I move then I need to do a tm28 and TM 30. If I don't move I don't have to even if I leave country and return to same address. 

Always better getting it from the horse's mouth.

Tomorrow that horse could change its mind.

 

And if you see the posts above you'll see that different IOs in the same office sometimes affect differing protocols. "All of this well I was told... My mate was told" is what you joined this forum for. To find advice from other people in this situation. So the best move is not to waste your time going to your local office and asking the question, the best move is to comply with what we know to be the law, (whether your local office is going to choose to enforce it or not.)

Edited August 4, 2019 by Scorpion364

[schlemmi]

1 hour ago, Parsve said:

I have a feeling that one of the problems is that different IO:s do not coordinate the information provided via TM30. When, after living in another province for six months, I returned and asked if we should submit a TM30, I received the answer that it was not necessary because I was already registered at the address. And I am sure that I was registred at the second place as I delivered the TM 30 there by my self, since we had not submitted any TM 30 after comming back, I must have been registered at least at two addresses at the same time.

Iam absolutely shure that you are registered under all addresses ever reported on you. They not delete entries in the database nor overwrite them. The add entries. If you not forgot your address, just ask the immigration. They can give you a cplete history.

[schlemmi]

21 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

The following is based a little on educated guesswork:

A) A messenger will have gone to Immigration with all the passports

B) No. Another person.

C) Correct.

D) 800B. This needed to be paid before they could get their 90 days stamp. I do not know the process of how the money was paid. I guess the passports were returned to school unstamped, and the teachers in question had to cough up the 800B, before the passports were then returned to Immigration for the stamps.

E) I don't think it's something that needs questioning or evidencing. If my friend says it happened, it happened. I don't think it is reasonable to suspect anything else, because this IS actually the law.

About D) and E) i not asked for evidence because i not believe your and your friends. The reason is, i like to know if they have a ticket, what is stated on it. And you said already they are not their own housemasters. They are fined for a fail they are not responsible for. And additionaly the IO denied to process the 90 days report. That is perfect illegal. Right now i  sent out my letter to immigratiion 3 headquater to clarify those issues. The letter is in the tm30 petition thread. 

[condobrit001]

Has anyone successfully applied for and received a login and password for the online TM30 system, and if so, how long did it take? (Sorry if this has been answered before or elsewhere, but I could have read War and Peace in the time it would take to read all related threads and posts!)

Edited August 4, 2019 by condobrit001
typo

[Salerno]

Yes people have, from what I've read looking like anywhere between three and six weeks.

[Fairynuff]

48 minutes ago, fourpack said:

Instead of all this well I was told. My mate was told. 

Why not get down to your local brown envelope whoops sorry Immigration office and ask them what there rules are. 

Mine as I asked not 4 days ago. Only if I move then I need to do a tm28 and TM 30. If I don't move I don't have to even if I leave country and return to same address. 

Always better getting it from the horse's mouth.

....and it could easily be a different answer from the IO sitting at the next desk. Perhaps you should have asked the horse to put it in writing for you.

[isaantom]

4 days ago I made my first TM30 with this famous 38 app.

Does immigration send a confirmation (paper for passport)?

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, fourpack said:

Always better getting it from the horse's mouth.

Part of the problem is theres a lot of different horses, even in the same office.. 

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, isaantom said:

Does immigration send a confirmation (paper for passport)?

 

No, no need for it.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Salerno

[NoshowJones]

TM30 - is anybody actually clear on this?

 

No one can be clear on this, Different Immigration offices have different interpretations of the rules, even UbonJoe will tell you this.

[NoshowJones]

You have said it yourself, it is in the middle of your last paragraph.

[Salerno]

12 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

No one can be clear on this

Yes they can. There's a difference between the law and local enforcement. Now that the law is being enforced, people can get with the program and bypass the locals which ensure they are 100% within the law or they can come and bitch about it on TV. 

 

As they say "up to you" which camp to be in.

[fourpack]

2 hours ago, Scorpion364 said:

Tomorrow that horse could change its mind.

 

And if you see the posts above you'll see that different IOs in the same office sometimes affect differing protocols. "All of this well I was told... My mate was told" is what you joined this forum for. To find advice from other people in this situation. So the best move is not to waste your time going to your local office and asking the question, the best move is to comply with what we know to be the law, (whether your local office is going to choose to enforce it or not.)

Sorry you are talking silly.

Just another I don't trust anything they say. What's the point as nothing anyone could say would make you believe.

You do things your way. I will do things my way by asking the people Actually in the Know.

I actually joined this forum as I thought it was a help forum but have come to realize it's not really every thread goes the same way as I see it.

And if you happen to disagree then you become an outcast.

But hey that's ok.

Makes for a good bedtime story some times.

Have a great day.

[StevieAus]

On 8/3/2019 at 5:05 PM, holy cow cm said:

I have yet to hear different from CM as they told me years ago only needed after outside the travel. Now until I hear differently, I will not bother for domestic travel. Has anyone heard anyone from CM saying anything new?  

I live in Chiang Mai Province but don’t use the main office.

Last Friday when I did the 90 day report and asked if there had been any change I was told only needed after leaving the country.