Online petition calling for TM30 to be scrapped gains momentum

[StefanBBK]

Respectfully, I think this petition is very poorly written. I can't possibly sign it alone for the second sentence. "We work here, contribute to the community and the economy of the country." I do NOT work here. It would be illegal for me, as I have no work permit. I work abroad and spend my time off here. I travel frequently in and out of Thailand on NON-IMM "O"  extension of stay with multiple re-entry permits. 

Technically, in most cases, it is not the Foreigner who must fill out the TM 30, but the Owner of the House. There should be two parts to the petition;

1) Do not hold Foreigners responsible for TM30's, as we are NOT.

2) Implement a Registration process outside TM30 for long stay expats, if need be. But please alleviate the constant re-reporting when moving around or returning to same address.   

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, gunderhill said:

grow  some  balls and tell em whats  what or spend  all your  life hiding inside a  cupboard, imagine the world if  no one ever  stood  up to authority and said something.

Its a plain ridiculous rule.

Great! Why don´t you stand as a front figure for the 2,5% of the expat population in Thailand according to the signed petition so far? Tell that to your IO next time you go there, I wish you good luck!

If your IO should by one of the more lenient ones and not bother so much about the TM30, then just call them up and tell the head office.

So, to the real issue. You actually are stating that the people that sign the petition has been growning balls and are really telling them? As I heard and read there will be no names shown. Ouch! That´s really some balls, ain´t it? No, it ain´t. What it does, though, is making it a worthless petition with no power to make anything.

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, gunderhill said:

grow  some  balls and tell em whats  what or spend  all your  life hiding inside a  cupboard, imagine the world if  no one ever  stood  up to authority and said something.

Its a plain ridiculous rule.

Yet another one that thinks non-signers are cowering inside their wardrobe and are all cowards.

You do your cause no favours.

[hobz]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Just because it´s nonsense to you and some other complainers on Thai Visa, does not mean it is nonsense. It´s just a few of the the many that complain and have a problem with this issue.

Let´s say there is about 150 000 westerners living on different visas in Thailand at the moment. It´s also a lot of other people that needs to make TM30, but i will humor you and only relate to the small sum of 150 000 people. Outof that some 3 500 have signed the petition. That´s about 2,5% of this total sum of people that has to file TM30 or have it filed for them.

The result is that 2,5% of 100% makes it more of a silly complaint from people that have a too big "I want"-issue. The 2,5% i not to be seen as a number that stands for the it nonsense and a big problem for the majority.

So, the best thing that could be done with this issue is "Put a sock in it, and suck it up!"

Just because it's not nonsense to you and many other sheep doesn't mean it is not nonsense.

[ChipButty]

44 minutes ago, TTSIssues said:

 

Sorry to ask but where do you download the app from? I can’t find anything called “section 38” on AppStore. Thank you so much. 

Google play store is where I got it from

[Fex Bluse]

9 minutes ago, StefanBBK said:

Respectfully, I think this petition is very poorly written. I can't possibly sign it alone for the second sentence. "We work here, contribute to the community and the economy of the country." I do NOT work here. It would be illegal for me, as I have no work permit. I work abroad and spend my time off here. I travel frequently in and out of Thailand on NON-IMM "O"  extension of stay with multiple re-entry permits. 

Technically, in most cases, it is not the Foreigner who must fill out the TM 30, but the Owner of the House. There should be two parts to the petition;

1) Do not hold Foreigners responsible for TM30's, as we are NOT.

2) Implement a Registration process outside TM30 for long stay expats, if need be. But please alleviate the constant re-reporting when moving around or returning to same address.   

I agree unfortunately. 

 

I strongly support my fellow farangs, but this petition is terribly written and reflects quite poorly in the expat community here in Thailand. 

 

Anyway, this is an issue that should optimally be taken up more professionally through embassies and professional and commercial bodies. Prominent expats matter more than English teachers, for example (No disrespect to English teachers).

 

And, the petition efforts should optimally 

1. Acknowledge whatever the Thai government claims the TM30 stuff tries to accomplish, and 

2. Suggest better alternatives rather than just asking to abolish it

 

In other words, bring them solutions, not problems. 

 

Even then, there is some risk to registering discontent with the government as it's fairly obvious that the government is xenophobic. 

[Sujo]

It would gain more traction if the Thais start getting annoyed at having to report everything and getting fined. Also when imm officers start complaining of all the extra paperwork.

[Destiny1990]

I assume it get adjusted that it is the foreigner who gets to pay the fine.

Having thais to pay the fine for foreigners is not how things getting done here.

[ChipButty]

Its no big deal guys I set it up for a Thai landlord the other day he hasn't got a clue how to do it and was worried his phone is out dated doesn't support the app so do it online with a laptop or desktop and also scanning doc's is not easy for some people

I should charge these Thai landlords a 1000 Baht a time

Edited August 7, 2019 by ChipButty

[FarFlungFalang]

24 minutes ago, StefanBBK said:

1) Do not hold Foreigners responsible for TM30's, as we are NOT.

Wouldn't it be possible to test this rule in a court of law and see what happens?

[ChipButty]

4 minutes ago, Sujo said:

It would gain more traction if the Thais start getting annoyed at having to report everything and getting fined. Also when imm officers start complaining of all the extra paperwork.

Thais are getting annoyed the ones that I know

[Saddic]

a petition  in Thailand.... yeah, that's gonna work...

 

Expect it to be used as data for the 'ban from Thailand' list by the Imm boys...

[IvorBiggun2]

12 minutes ago, Sujo said:

It would gain more traction if the Thais start getting annoyed at having to report everything and getting fined.

Do you not think that it was not a Thai that first kicked up the fuss regarding the TM 30? Of course it was as they got a little of what we farangs have been getting for years and they don't like it. I see no hardships/problems regarding the TM30 as it really doesn't involve me/us. It's the Thais that are getting hammered and as I said they don't like it. Welcome to Thai immigration Thai people. Getting rid of the 90 day report is the better option. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by IvorBiggun2

[IvorBiggun2]

5 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Wouldn't it be possible to test this rule in a court of law and see what happens?

Why test it in a court of law? It clearly states who is responsible for the fine in the rule book. End of.

[gunderhill]

57 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I'm a bamboo stalk, I bend with the wind. My IO doesn't take the TM30 seriously so neither do I. Yes the complacent among us are freeloaders who benefit from from the coragiouse who protest, who demonstrate, who complain but we don't get shot, blown up or arrested.

must  be  nice  under  that  thumb

[gunderhill]

56 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Great! Why don´t you stand as a front figure for the 2,5% of the expat population in Thailand according to the signed petition so far? Tell that to your IO next time you go there, I wish you good luck!

If your IO should by one of the more lenient ones and not bother so much about the TM30, then just call them up and tell the head office.

So, to the real issue. You actually are stating that the people that sign the petition has been growning balls and are really telling them? As I heard and read there will be no names shown. Ouch! That´s really some balls, ain´t it? No, it ain´t. What it does, though, is making it a worthless petition with no power to make anything.

apathy  rules  eh

[4MyEgo]

I signed it in the hope that the TM 30 would get removed from the immigration Act of 1979, just so I didn't have to listen to all these TVF expats winging day in day out ????

 

Joke aside, praise to the expats who don't just sit on their a$$es and wing all day and are being proactive in raising the issue and seeking to put it forward to the government letting them know how it affects us.

 

This in my and others opinions who have the BALLS to sign the petition, regardless if our names are provided seek to get this quashed, no doubt all the paranoid GUTLESS expats who sit on their a$$es will be clapping hands and saying they signed the petition when and if something gets done.

 

This petition can be a Godsend as it could actually open a dialog with the Thai government on how expats feel about other things, like the 90 day reporting which yes, is a pain in the butt, but so is the TM 30, e.g. I would have had to fill it in 3 times this year as I was out of my province for more than 24 hours on each occasion.

 

If they said ok, we will make it for every time you re-enter the country, fine, but then again, they have the re-entry permit that records us returning into the country, but as the immigration officer said to me, when I asked him why I had to report to the cop station in the other province I was returning to and staying for a week when you have my return at the port of entry on your immigration system, he then said with raised eyebrows, we are not interlinked, him shaking his head, I couldn't believe what I just heard, my wife then said to him, are you serious, in his country everything is interlinked, his acknowledge what she said.

 

We all know how we all feel about the TM30 and 90 day reporting, but if we don't get on board, well then things will NEVER change, so sit on your bar stool and continue winging if that suits you, you will never bring about change on anything, but not me, I couldn't have signed quick enough when it first came about, no paranoia here, and if they want to ship me out, I will gladly leave for other shores more welcoming, no skin off of my nose oi !

 

EDIT: Oh by the way, if immigration EVER tried to fine me for not reporting, you will read it in the media, "Farang refuses to pay fine for not doing TM 30 reporting" the more attention this gets, the quicker they will look at it.

Edited August 7, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[Fex Bluse]

32 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Thais are getting annoyed the ones that I know

Which may just encourage them to avoid renting to foreigners.. 

[MartinKal]

What foxes me is that I cannot see what benefits the government obtains from this surveillance, nor the risks it thinks all this reporting will mitigate.

If anyone in authority anywhere in the world wants to implement a change in policy, it smooothes the way and avoids mistakes and hostilities even, if they first communicate ... just share the thinking. Well-disposed residents will cooperate more willingly and the bad guys are unlikely to have participated in the first place.

 

I don't get it. Ex-pats have no representation. Their worth seems unappreciated by those responsible for the system.

 

It just seems a shame and creating needless hostility. At some point foreigners will start to feel like scapegoats and will take the hint and go, as unlike traditional scapegoats, foreigners in Thailand mostly have choices.

 

Footnote: a fair percentage of expats have gone already and aren't coming back.  The strong baht, safety issues and air-borne pollution are cited as reasons for leaving, for not visiting in the first place (tourist numbers) now, but there is this growing perception that they are not welcome, neither by government nor civil, and it is wise to prepare departure plans. A real shame - is the pressure coming from China?

[mickba]

When enforcement hotted up a year or so ago (due to terrorist activity?) I went to Jomtien (late) to check if I should have reported and I was fined 1600 Baht.

The next time I went (on time) I was told no need as the rules had been relaxed.
For those on long term (eg Retirement) Visas/Extensions, provided their address is still as last reported (ie as on the slip stapled in your Passport) they do not have to TM30 either for internal or external travel.

So no, this does not affect all of us expats and hasn't for over a year.
In Bangkok and Chiang Mai I gather it's different.

[inThailand]

Online petition calling for TM30 to be scrapped gains momentum.

 

Is TAT doing TV's propaganda now?

 

[Benmart]

5 hours ago, daveAustin said:

That was its intended purpose, to sow growing discontent + they're trying to keep tabs on the bad boys remember . I would keep your heads down, chaps. 

Keeping one's head down, often results in not looking ahead and seeing methods of improvement.

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, mickba said:

When enforcement hotted up a year or so ago (due to terrorist activity?) I went to Jomtien (late) to check if I should have reported and I was fined 1600 Baht.

Terrorist activity, huh, by who farangs, you didn't see the 1,600 baht fine coming, that went straight into his pocket, didn't it, relaxed now isn't he ????

[bender92]

If I stay in a hotel , the hotel does the paperwork.

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Let´s say there is about 150 000 westerners living on different visas in Thailand at the moment.

and  how  many  actually  know  about  this, most  likely very few, but theyre  gonna find out over the next 12   months.

[Matzzon]

8 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

apathy  rules  eh

Whatever!? Appearently you side with the clic de cremé of 2,5% that see it as a problem, that at present moment stand against both Immigration and the other 97,5% that seem to deem it´s acceptable.

[gunderhill]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

the other 97,5% that seem to deem it´s acceptable.

you have no idea what the other 97.5% think and neither do I  until another year has  past.

[ChipButty]

12 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Which may just encourage them to avoid renting to foreigners.. 

so they say, but they also know they get more rent from a Farang

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, bender92 said:

If I stay in a hotel , the hotel does the paperwork.

If you are living here and live in another province, surprise, surprise, you MUST report to immigration within 24 hours of your return to your province, otherwise you may be fined, different immigration offices, have different rules, i.e. some enforce it, some don't.

 

To make it more clearer, if you stay outside of your province for more than 24 hours, you MUST report to immigration upon your return, regardless if you stayed in a hotel or not, in other words, the hotel must do the TM30 and so must you upon your return within 24 hours.

 

Have you signed the petition yet ????

 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, hobz said:

Just because it's not nonsense to you and many other sheep doesn't mean it is not nonsense.

Slow down and catch up for a minute or as long as you need to get the hold of the situation.

I am on the side of the appearently, at present time, 98,5% that seems to be able to deal with this issue without to much problems.

You seem to be on the side of the, at present time, 2,5% side of the complainers.

What side would you think is the one that most bystanders would belive is the right and acceptable one? Same rules like looking at everything in life. An insignificant percentual part of complainers will always be unseen and quickly forgotten. That´s what most people normally file in the bag of nonsense.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Matzzon