Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

I spent a Month in Vietnam earlier this year because a few expats were telling me how good it was. I'm sorry to say but Pattaya is the better choice for me. Did the bars, beaches and walk arounds like I do here but Pattaya is way better. The only advantages of Vietnam was beer was cheaper and visas were easier but for everything else there is no place like Pattaya. I think paying $2 USD a beer here versus $1 USD there I can afford that and for everything else Pattaya does and has it is way out in front.

Didn't get laid in Vietnam eh?

[champers]

25 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Not uncommon for a building to be turned over to the next dreamer, but does that mean it will still be here, 12 months from now? 

 

Will the next dreamer have the money to even move in, 12 months from now. 

 

Would you buy a bar / restaurant / guest house in the current climate?

I am investing in a business and will get a return; it is a prosperous going concern.

Other than as a customer, I have no experience in the 3 examples you give but with good management there is no reason why any of the 3 should not succeed. Not all business owners are dreamers, some know what they are doing.

Edited October 1, 2019 by champers

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, champers said:

I am investing in a business and will get a return; it is a prosperous going concern.

Other than as a customer, I have no experience in the 3 examples you give but with good management there is no reason why any of the 3 should not succeed. Not all business owners are dreamers, some know what they are doing.

Do you think places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms were poorly managed. or bought by dreamers?  They had been around for years.  Usually, poorly managed places close quite quickly.  

 

As more of these long standing businesses close, will you continue to blame poor management?   

[champers]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Do you think places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms were poorly managed. or bought by dreamers?  They had been around for years.  Usually, poorly managed places close quite quickly.  

 

As more of these long standing businesses close, will you continue to blame poor management?   

Don't know about the BA but P&W; which I visited regularly though not frequently; never changed what was on offer. The food was good, Thai and English. I thought their next door neighbour would go bang first; their food is inferior and less on offer in terms of sports viewing or anything else.

I will occasionally go to P&W in Jomtien but it is out of the way for me.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

If Pattaya was on the stock market, I would short sell it, big time.  ????

Sex never goes out of fashion!

[fhickson]

On 10/1/2019 at 4:05 PM, Leaver said:

Do you think places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms were poorly managed. or bought by dreamers?  They had been around for years.  Usually, poorly managed places close quite quickly.  

 

As more of these long standing businesses close, will you continue to blame poor management?   

not if the curries good

[moonseeker]

I have several friends with tourism related businesses. Every single one, but one, have seen their turnover, bookings etc. going down 40 to 60% during the last 3 years. This, after 10 to 15 years doing well previously. The only one doing very well according to his words with his medium sized hotel in BKK is a guy who switched to Chinese 3 years ago and is doing the same or better numbers than with his mostly European clients the many years before. Just open your eyes driving along main and side roads in Pattaya. In some areas up to 50% of buildings and businesses locked up and falling apart. 

Surprise? Not really, what quality tourist would enjoy the general neglect and garbage everywhere....Enough said... MS>

[Leaver]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:59 AM, jacko45k said:

Sex never goes out of fashion!

True, but Thailand / Pattaya is not the only place in the region where this service is on offer.

[Leaver]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:16 PM, champers said:

P&W; which I visited regularly though not frequently; never changed what was on offer. The food was good, Thai and English.

So why do you think it closed?

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

True, but Thailand / Pattaya is not the only place in the region where this service is on offer.

Yes, but to be honest, it's the best I have come across!

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, but to be honest, it's the best I have come across!

When you say the best, do you mean the biggest, as in, the most selection?  If so, how could one disagree?  There's a reason Pattaya is known as "The World's Brothel." 

 

In my opinion, it will be a long time before the sex trade disappears from Pattaya, but I think it will certainly be diminished, and I think the first to go will be the old tin roofed, single story, beer bars, which we are seeing now. 

[fhickson]

update

 

after scouting out options near my new condo rental in jomtein the op has a point

 

the thai food here sucks, and more quality foreigner run bars and restaurants with reasonable prices would be a welcome addition to the neighborhood.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, fhickson said:

update

 

after scouting out options near my new condo rental in jomtein the op has a point

 

the thai food here sucks, and more quality foreigner run bars and restaurants with reasonable prices would be a welcome addition to the neighborhood.

Hang in there.

 

There will be Chinese and Indian restaurants coming to you soon. ???? 

[DrTuner]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

Hang in there.

 

There will be Chinese and Indian restaurants coming to you soon. ???? 

Jomthien is the ground zero of the Chinese invasion, they inherited the south from the fleeing Russians and are clawing their way to north, now at the Hanuman already. One casualty I'm expecting is Cafe Le Mar, their quality went down during the Russian invasion already, now they'll likely be squeezed out. Phuben and Lungsaway are insufferable due to the hordes, have to drive further south. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by DrTuner

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Jomthien is the ground zero of the Chinese invasion, they inherited the south from the fleeing Russians and are clawing their way to north, now at the Hanuman already. One casualty I'm expecting is Cafe Le Mar, their quality went down during the Russian invasion already, now they'll likely be squeezed out. Phuben and Lungsaway are insufferable due to the hordes, have to drive further south. 

Like I said, choice and variety will decrease for westerners in the future here. 

 

Whether that be more travel required to get to an establishment catering for westerners, or finding a place that is pleasant, and not catering to the Chinese on tour buses.   

[fhickson]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

Like I said, choice and variety will decrease for westerners in the future here. 

 

Whether that be more travel required to get to an establishment catering for westerners, or finding a place that is pleasant, and not catering to the Chinese on tour buses.   

yes, with less westerners, western oriented restaurants and bars will dwindle. as more indians and chinese arrive food places catering to them will increase.

 

natural selection, not hard to grasp.

 

so, whats your point? just trying to inform people of the lack of choice, or lamentation on the lack of choice that you cant do much about?

 

what effect on you will the lack of choice have? will you be more inclined to move on to other locations?

[HLover]

14 minutes ago, fhickson said:

what effect on you will the lack of choice have? will you be more inclined to move on to other locations?

No.. I will stop showering, fancy curry, use chopsticks and speak loudly while sharing one drink between 7 mates.

[Leaver]

18 hours ago, fhickson said:

yes, with less westerners, western oriented restaurants and bars will dwindle. as more indians and chinese arrive food places catering to them will increase.

 

natural selection, not hard to grasp.

 

so, whats your point? just trying to inform people of the lack of choice, or lamentation on the lack of choice that you cant do much about?

 

what effect on you will the lack of choice have? will you be more inclined to move on to other locations?

My point is, the closure of one's favorite bar or restaurant may very well be imminent.  

[Leaver]

On 10/6/2019 at 11:38 PM, HLover said:

No.. I will stop showering, fancy curry, use chopsticks and speak loudly while sharing one drink between 7 mates.

Be sure to buy that one drink from a 7/11 or Family Mart.  ????

[Ling Kae]

None of my favorite bars or restaurants are closing in the near future and I think focusing on what is closing is meaningless.

 

Like another poster mentioned   there are a lot of new bars and restaurants opening. Today, for the first time l went into a restaurant and bar called Cheap Charlie's.  I just could not believe how busy this new place is. There were about 20/25 tables, all full of farangs. I enjoyed a nice meal and a nice beer here.

 

I really could not care if half the bars in Pattaya closed, there are some terrible places out there and closure could get a better owner in there.

 

My hotel is ramping up now, 80% full and all farangs but no Chinese or Indians.  I would guess that there are more guests this year than last year. I really think concentrating on the new places and offerings is more important than concentrating on imminent closures.

 

 

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, Ling Kae said:

None of my favorite bars or restaurants are closing in the near future and I think focusing on what is closing is meaningless.

 

Like another poster mentioned   there are a lot of new bars and restaurants opening. Today, for the first time l went into a restaurant and bar called Cheap Charlie's.  I just could not believe how busy this new place is. There were about 20/25 tables, all full of farangs. I enjoyed a nice meal and a nice beer here.

 

I really could not care if half the bars in Pattaya closed, there are some terrible places out there and closure could get a better owner in there.

 

My hotel is ramping up now, 80% full and all farangs but no Chinese or Indians.  I would guess that there are more guests this year than last year. I really think concentrating on the new places and offerings is more important than concentrating on imminent closures.

 

 

Why not discuss both?

 

Why shouldn't people be informed, and discuss, places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms closing?

 

So, a new restaurant bar called Cheap Charlies was busy.  Has it / will it poach customers from other restaurants / bars and send them broke, forcing their closure?

 

The Pattaya pie can only be cut into so many slices, and have you noticed it's the places offering 2 for 1 alcohol, or cheap eats, that are busier?  It's like a race to the bottom.

 

If 10 new places open, but 20 old places close, that's a net lose of 10 bars. Right?

 

Can you tell me why you think your favorite bars / restaurants will not struggle in the future?  Sounds like Cheap Charlies will be taking you away from them.  ???????? 

 

Now picture other customers of your favorite restaurants being lured away by the likes of Cheap Charlies and Hungry Hippo and T21 food court.  Where does that leave your favorite restaurants?

Edited October 8, 2019 by Leaver

[Ling Kae]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Why not discuss both?

 

Why shouldn't people be informed, and discuss, places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms closing?

 

So, a new restaurant bar called Cheap Charlies was busy.  Has it / will it poach customers from other restaurants / bars and send them broke, forcing their closure?

 

The Pattaya pie can only be cut into so many slices, and have you noticed it's the places offering 2 for 1 alcohol, or cheap eats, that are busier?  It's like a race to the bottom.

 

If 10 new places open, but 20 old places close, that's a net lose of 10 bars. Right?

 

Can you tell me why you think your favorite bars / restaurants will not struggle in the future?  Sounds like Cheap Charlies will be taking you away from them.  ???????? 

 

Now picture other customers of your favorite restaurants being lured away by the likes of Cheap Charlies and Hungry Hippo and T21 food court.  Where does that leave your favorite restaurants?

In the 29 years that I have been coming here l have never ever been to the Butchers Arms or Pig & Whistle. I am not a fan of air con bars and expensive food. From the signs outside I always thought the P$W was over priced.  The BA'ms appeared to be a British Pub theme in air con, hate ac so never went in.

 

I go to where I like and at a fair Thai price. This is what I like. I will not pay farang prices where it should be Thai prices, ie. Full English breakfast @ 99 b up to 275 b. You will get me in @ 99 to 180. At 275....??? They are dreaming. 

 

Beer, anything above 65 b for a Leo is a no go zone unless they are doing something extra ordinary. So price is a major factor.

 

As mentioned before some bars deserve to go broke. Poor service,  high prices, bad attitudes of staff. I had an English guy tell me the other day that a Thai female manager said to him " If you don't buy a ladys drink then you can leave ". Wow, that bar deserves to go broke, wouldn't you agree?

 

Good food at reasonable prices, cheap cold beer at 60 baht, good staff and ambience are the only things that will take me away from existing bars that l drink in.

 

Why should l care if a bunch of non conforming bars to me should close? I don't,  there are plently of good ones around.

[metempsychotic]

On 8/15/2019 at 1:08 PM, bkk6060 said:

I think the days of the big greasy burger joints and western BBQ spots are going by the waste side.  Would not be surprised if there were none of those places in a few years.

 

the waste side, epic.

im going to file that with "finger of speech", "statue of limitations" and "adding salt to the jury".

 

keep em coming please!

[fhickson]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Why not discuss both?

 

Why shouldn't people be informed, and discuss, places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms closing?

 

So, a new restaurant bar called Cheap Charlies was busy.  Has it / will it poach customers from other restaurants / bars and send them broke, forcing their closure?

 

The Pattaya pie can only be cut into so many slices, and have you noticed it's the places offering 2 for 1 alcohol, or cheap eats, that are busier?  It's like a race to the bottom.

 

If 10 new places open, but 20 old places close, that's a net lose of 10 bars. Right?

 

Can you tell me why you think your favorite bars / restaurants will not struggle in the future?  Sounds like Cheap Charlies will be taking you away from them.  ???????? 

 

Now picture other customers of your favorite restaurants being lured away by the likes of Cheap Charlies and Hungry Hippo and T21 food court.  Where does that leave your favorite restaurants?

cheap charles, etc. ARE the favorite restaurants if they are busy and everyone likes going there...

 

natural selection...

 

if prey moves, predators move with it...or they stay where they are and learn to adapt to change and new food sources to survive. those who adapt the best to change procreate more.

 

looking beneath the surface, the whole situation in pattaya is pretty primal.

Edited October 8, 2019 by fhickson

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

In the 29 years that I have been coming here l have never ever been to the Butchers Arms or Pig & Whistle. I am not a fan of air con bars and expensive food. From the signs outside I always thought the P$W was over priced.  The BA'ms appeared to be a British Pub theme in air con, hate ac so never went in.

 

I go to where I like and at a fair Thai price. This is what I like. I will not pay farang prices where it should be Thai prices, ie. Full English breakfast @ 99 b up to 275 b. You will get me in @ 99 to 180. At 275....??? They are dreaming. 

 

Beer, anything above 65 b for a Leo is a no go zone unless they are doing something extra ordinary. So price is a major factor.

 

As mentioned before some bars deserve to go broke. Poor service,  high prices, bad attitudes of staff. I had an English guy tell me the other day that a Thai female manager said to him " If you don't buy a ladys drink then you can leave ". Wow, that bar deserves to go broke, wouldn't you agree?

 

Good food at reasonable prices, cheap cold beer at 60 baht, good staff and ambience are the only things that will take me away from existing bars that l drink in.

 

Why should l care if a bunch of non conforming bars to me should close? I don't,  there are plently of good ones around.

This is where we differ.  For a meal, or a relaxing drink, or to watch some sport, I prefer an air conditioned establishment, and I have no problem paying for the extra comfort to be out of the dust, motorbike noise and fumes, mosquitoes, annoying street vendors, and the humidity.  Of course, like yourself, I would not pay ridiculous prices, but understand a business offering a more pleasant environment must charge more. 

 

I like the band at The Billabong, and it is basically an open air place, and I have no problem with places like this, but not for a relaxing drink.

 

When you call some bars "non conforming" it's a little hard for a bar or restaurant to absorb large rent rises by greedy Thai landlords.  How many times have we heard of closures due to rent rises, which the business can not sustain, but the landlord doesn't care?  These rent rises have to be passed onto the consumer.  I know it's certainly not the consumer's fault a Thai landlord increases the rent, but as we have seen here before, it's like shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.  Many price conscious consumers move around to different establishments, based on price.  

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, fhickson said:

cheap charles, etc. ARE the favorite restaurants if they are busy and everyone likes going there...

 

natural selection...

 

if prey moves, predators move with it...or they stay where they are and learn to adapt to change and new food sources to survive. those who adapt the best to change procreate more.

 

looking beneath the surface, the whole situation in pattaya is pretty primal.

Hungry Hippo and Cheap Charlies etc are relatively new.  Sure, they may have become the place of favor among many now, but that means other places have fallen out of favor.

 

Many here are set in their ways, and whilst many may have moved to Hungry Hippo and Cheap Charlies, for example, that leaves many that are set in their ways, and loyal customers, now sitting in an establishment with only 2 or 3 other customers, which, is hardly sustainable. 

 

I agree, we will be seeing survival of the fittest here over the next 6 to 12 months, so, the question posed in my thread title remains, "Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?"  To expand on this, the question, "Is the closure of your previous favorite bar or restaurant imminent" could be asked, since many are now adopting the more affordable establishments as their "favorite."  ????

[metempsychotic]

cheap charlies, billabong, its funny to see how bar names just keep getting recycled.

then there are the brit pub names, there really is nothing new under the sun.

[Rimmer]

Off topic removed

[fhickson]

On 10/9/2019 at 11:57 AM, Leaver said:

Hungry Hippo and Cheap Charlies etc are relatively new.  Sure, they may have become the place of favor among many now, but that means other places have fallen out of favor.

 

Many here are set in their ways, and whilst many may have moved to Hungry Hippo and Cheap Charlies, for example, that leaves many that are set in their ways, and loyal customers, now sitting in an establishment with only 2 or 3 other customers, which, is hardly sustainable. 

 

I agree, we will be seeing survival of the fittest here over the next 6 to 12 months, so, the question posed in my thread title remains, "Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?"  To expand on this, the question, "Is the closure of your previous favorite bar or restaurant imminent" could be asked, since many are now adopting the more affordable establishments as their "favorite."  ????

why do you keep repeating this phrase "is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent"?

 

somethings really weird about this thread.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, fhickson said:

why do you keep repeating this phrase "is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent"?

 

somethings really weird about this thread.

Nothing weird about the thread.  Just trying to keep it on topic.

 

I seriously don't think a few of my favorite bars will still be here, 6 to 12 months from now, and they run a good operation in them, and have been around a long time.  I think they are headed for the same destiny as The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms, but time will tell.  Maybe they will be one of the survivors, maybe not. 

 

It's just they are empty now, and whilst the low can account for some of the lack of clientele, it can't be blamed for these places being devoid of customers completely, because I have seen them busy in previous low seasons.   I'm not talking about places like a brick bar under a tin roof, but proper nice places.