Wrong numbers on feeler gauge caused a big headache..

[Isaanbiker]

  last Friday, i went to my shop where i usually buy my parts and purchased a feeler gauge for 150 baht. I was planning to adjust my valves, just my usual service interval.

 

    Then I've adjusted them five times, but the rear cylinder was so loud and the valves were louder than the exhaust system. I spent my Saturday and Sunday with it, without being successful.

 

    Then I had enough and borrowed the feelers from a friend. I've adjusted all valves once and the engine runs like a Swiss Clockwork, as it should.

 

    They must have printed the wrong numbers on the feeler gauge and i always adjusted the valves the wrong size.

 

    I thought it's worth posting, should anybody have similar issues. 

 

  

 

  

[Crossy]

You didn't get metric feelers and adjust to the imperial clearances (or vice-versa) by any chance?

[Isaanbiker]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

You didn't get metric feelers and adjust to the imperial clearances (or vice-versa) by any chance?

Nope, I had the metric and imperial sizes printed on them. 0.08 mm are around twice as thick. 

 

  Must have happened at the production line. 

[OneMoreFarang]

I am sure you read before somewhere that quality tools make life a lot easier... 

[Isaanbiker]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am sure you read before somewhere that quality tools make life a lot easier... 

 I've ordered one that's a bit more expensive, but it will last much longer.

 

Mine was 150 baht at a local store, my friend's with a lot more feelers around 90 baht via Ebay. 

 

  The one I had from a friend looks like shi_e now and rust is on the blades I have used.

 

Buying such tools that are made in China doesn't seem to be a good idea. 

   

[liddelljohn]

Its easy to get confused  with Feeler  Guages    ,, with imperial and metric marks on ,,shims etc       remember measure twice   change once recheck again ,, i do it professionally and still  get confused when  tired or rushed ,,

[canthai55]

Only one name in measurement tools - Starrett

I still have mics and gauges of my Fathers - pre WW2 vintage

[VocalNeal]

Buy some cheap digital calipers. Useful for measuring many things.

[thaiguzzi]

On 8/22/2019 at 12:59 PM, Isaanbiker said:

  They must have printed the wrong numbers on the feeler gauge and i always adjusted the valves the wrong size.

Send them to me - i'll measure them. I just doubt it, sorry.

11 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Its easy to get confused  with Feeler  Guages    ,, with imperial and metric marks on ,,shims etc       remember measure twice   change once recheck again ,, i do it professionally and still  get confused when  tired or rushed ,,

Sorry, i just cant see it.

One mil (1.00mm) is as good as damn it 40thou (0.040") of an inch.

So 0.10 of a mil is 0.004".

Lets take a look at common valve clearances of say 0.004" IN and 0.008" EX, just as an example.

How can someone with mechanical experience mess up those numbers with the metric equivelants of 0.01 and 0.02mm?

Ya know, just by looking at them, let alone feel (excuse the pun) them, you'd know you are way out mixing the two up.

7 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Only one name in measurement tools - Starrett

I still have mics and gauges of my Fathers - pre WW2 vintage

We'll agree to disagree.

You may be correct American side of the Pond pre WW II.

But....

You do realize that nowadays, Starrett has grade A and grade B - B being made in China, but assembled and packaged in the good 'ole USA.

Ditto Browne & Sharp. And Moore & Wright.

The only guaranteed high quality, great price measuring tools made in the last 30-50 years are Mitutoyo, a Japanese brand with factories in Brazil, and, wait for it, USA.

Of course you want silly money stuff go Starrett grade A (no better than Mit) or high end, eye watering Swiss stuff.

 

Regards,

bloke who has a 0-1" mic tattooed on my calf.

Just in case....

 

IB/OP - PM sent.

[worgeordie]

Back in the day I think the tool used was a cigarette packet.

regards Worgeordie

[Isaanbiker]

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Send them to me - i'll measure them. I just doubt it, sorry.

Sorry, i just cant see it.

One mil (1.00mm) is as good as damn it 40thou (0.040") of an inch.

So 0.10 of a mil is 0.004".

Lets take a look at common valve clearances of say 0.004" IN and 0.008" EX, just as an example.

How can someone with mechanical experience mess up those numbers with the metric equivelants of 0.01 and 0.02mm?

Ya know, just by looking at them, let alone feel (excuse the pun) them, you'd know you are way out mixing the two up.

We'll agree to disagree.

You may be correct American side of the Pond pre WW II.

But....

You do realize that nowadays, Starrett has grade A and grade B - B being made in China, but assembled and packaged in the good 'ole USA.

Ditto Browne & Sharp. And Moore & Wright.

The only guaranteed high quality, great price measuring tools made in the last 30-50 years are Mitutoyo, a Japanese brand with factories in Brazil, and, wait for it, USA.

Of course you want silly money stuff go Starrett grade A (no better than Mit) or high end, eye watering Swiss stuff.

 

Regards,

bloke who has a 0-1" mic tattooed on my calf.

Just in case....

 

IB/OP - PM sent.

I swear to god, even being atheist, that the feelers are junk. 

 

   I've used the same clearance with my friend's gauge, so there's no possible misunderstanding.

 

  And it's not the first time that I've done it. Message sent. Cheers- M. 

 

   

[Isaanbiker]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Back in the day I think the tool used was a cigarette packet.

regards Worgeordie

I guess you mean the spark plug gap which is a bit different. 0.4 mm, right?

[Isaanbiker]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Buy some cheap digital calipers. Useful for measuring many things.

I'll do. The guy I've got the feelers from has one that works well. Will check the gauges and see what size they really are. 

 

  But instead of writing the real size on them, I've already ordered one that's of good quality. But thanks!

[jvs]

You can also set your valves while the engine is running and do it by sound but it is a bit messy.

[johng]

You can also set your valves while the engine is running and do it by sound but it is a bit messy.

Ha ha I'd like to see a video of that...especially if its a shim system. [emoji39]

[alan grice]

Complete nit wit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[stubuzz]

On 8/23/2019 at 12:04 PM, Isaanbiker said:

The one I had from a friend looks like shi_e now and rust is on the blades I have used.

I keep my feelers in a zip lock bag with engine oil. The dam things have still rusted!

[billd766]

43 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

I keep my feelers in a zip lock bag with engine oil. The dam things have still rusted!

WD40 works very well and is not expensive.

[canthai55]

13 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Mitutoyo

Have one of their dial indicators - good quality.

[canthai55]

Quality costs ...

https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/25-109J

[Damrongsak]

13 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

... Mitutoyo...

My first caliper was a Mit (vernier).  I hope it's around here somewhere, was hardly used.  I got it back around 1973 when I worked at the Suzuki dealership. 

 

My younger son is a machinist and has a fair collection of stuff. Some of the older used stuff was cheap but high-end. He has a couple dial indicators that are worth hundreds. I got him a new  6" Mit digital caliper (coolant proof) for everyday work.  

 

A buddy gave us several Mit digital micrometers for free when the place he worked closed.  They are spline mics, with the spindle ground down very thin.  They are currently about $450 each.

 

[canthai55]

From what I have read and been told when Starrett bought the Exact company a couple of years ago they used this companys name to seperate the USA made vs the Chinese made tools. Precision measuring tools that say "Starrett" are made in the USA and those that say "Starrett Exact" are made in China. I have a friend who bought an 8" Starrett Exact dial caliper that was made in China and for the money it will do but it is not as smooth as a real Starrett, Mit, or old Brown and Sharpe.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/china-made-starrett-169877/

[wotsdermatter]

15 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Back in the day I think the tool used was a cigarette packet.

That's the way I was taught and friends use to do the same.  When I finally got my first 'bike, a 500 cc Triumph ex WWII dispatch riders motorcycle which still had the device for cutting wire strung across the road, that was what I used when tuning the machine.  Mind you, you had to have the correct cigarette package as one did not work for all 'bikes.

'nuf sed.

[Damrongsak]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

From what I have read and been told when Starrett bought the Exact company a couple of years ago they used this companys name to seperate the USA made vs the Chinese made tools. Precision measuring tools that say "Starrett" are made in the USA and those that say "Starrett Exact" are made in China. I have a friend who bought an 8" Starrett Exact dial caliper that was made in China and for the money it will do but it is not as smooth as a real Starrett, Mit, or old Brown and Sharpe.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/china-made-starrett-169877/

I like the PracticalMachinist.com site.  Used to spent a lot of time there until I got my rights restricted by calling the owner a "pussy" one time, LOL.  I am familiar with a couple guys in that thread.  Bought stuff from Walter A and Bosleyjr is a genius, I think.  We've chatted.

[thaiguzzi]

7 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Quality costs ...

https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/25-109J

Ok for the temperature controlled tool and inpection room, if the bosses are buying.

For you and me - we would be diagnosed clinically insane to purchase ANY DTI for $336.

When a perfectly good DTI from even China for 15-20 bucks would do the same job in our enviroment.

I believe I Phones have been made in China since the year dot, as well as various BMW components.

They can make whatever they want to whatever the parent company specs, from the best, to the nastiest.

I'm not sticking up for <deleted> here, i'm a tool snob and collector of nice hand tools and measuring equipment anyhow.

4 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

I like the PracticalMachinist.com site.  Used to spent a lot of time there until I got my rights restricted by calling the owner a "pussy" one time, LOL.  I am familiar with a couple guys in that thread.  Bought stuff from Walter A and Bosleyjr is a genius, I think.  We've chatted.

Ah Millicron, the site owner & moderator. Yeah he makes the Gestapo running TV look like angels in comparison.

PM is a great site though for the vintage stuff and classic nameplates.

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

WD40 works very well and is not expensive.

Disagree.

Been proven as a very poor rust inhibitor. A water displacer yes, but stopping rust long term - no.

A thin oil is far better.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Ok for the temperature controlled tool and inpection room, if the bosses are buying.

For you and me - we would be diagnosed clinically insane to purchase ANY DTI for $336.

When a perfectly good DTI from even China for 15-20 bucks would do the same job in our enviroment.

I believe I Phones have been made in China since the year dot, as well as various BMW components.

They can make whatever they want to whatever the parent company specs, from the best, to the nastiest.

I'm not sticking up for <deleted> here, i'm a tool snob and collector of nice hand tools and measuring equipment anyhow.

Ah Millicron, the site owner & moderator. Yeah he makes the Gestapo running TV look like angels in comparison.

PM is a great site though for the vintage stuff and classic nameplates.

Disagree.

Been proven as a very poor rust inhibitor. A water displacer yes, but stopping rust long term - no.

A thin oil is far better.

WD40 worked well enough when I worked on SAR helicopters during my time in the RAF.

 

We used to wash them twice a week which dispersed the water and protected the airframe from the elements. It worked well enough on my cars over the years and is great at freeing up stuck nuts and bolts.

 

I have 3 weed whackers and they get washed at the end of the job daily and sprayed with WD40 to inhibit the blades from rusting.

 

I have been using it for about 50 years.

[VocalNeal]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Ok for the temperature controlled tool and inpection room

 

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Disagree.

Been proven as a very poor rust inhibitor. A water displacer yes, but stopping rust long term - no.

A thin oil is far better.

When I worked in a temperature controlled tool and inspection room we would dip the go/no go gauges in a plasticy/oily substance which hardened. had to be peeled of and thrown back into the vat when using the gauges. 

 

Not suitable for lawn mowers though.

[canthai55]

11 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

I like the PracticalMachinist.com site.

My Father was a machinist. As part of the final test to receive certification they were given a cube of steel. The test was to make said cube 1" - with hand tools.

Them days is long gone tho' ...

[Damrongsak]

7 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

...PM is a great site though for the vintage stuff and classic nameplates. ...

The antique forum threads are great.  "Asquith" from the UK travels all over and posts pics of various old machinery, especially some of the grand old steam engines.  There's another fellow from the US who makes miniature things, from tiny candelabras to entire room scenes. He made a tiny toolbox and all the tools in it one time.  He goes to Europe occasionally to teach his craft.  He has a huge collection of antique measuring tools and machinist hand tools. Some beautiful stuff.

----------

As for WD40, it's not really more than a light oil and a lot of white spirits (like paint thinner/Stoddard solvent ...).  It's fine for washing off parts and the like.  For longer-term protection there are much better products.  I like Fluid Film. It's used on farm machinery, ships and such. I even have the hat. ????

 

[Isaanbiker]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

WD40 worked well enough when I worked on SAR helicopters during my time in the RAF.

 

We used to wash them twice a week which dispersed the water and protected the airframe from the elements. It worked well enough on my cars over the years and is great at freeing up stuck nuts and bolts.

 

I have 3 weed whackers and they get washed at the end of the job daily and sprayed with WD40 to inhibit the blades from rusting.

 

I have been using it for about 50 years.

Hopefully not as a lubricant for the other gender........????