Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists

[Jingthing]

Another point -- IF it turns out this is only about O-A visa applications outside of Thailand and it will never touch extensions, then logically, wouldn't a large percentage of people that would have used O-A visas switch to starting here without them? So all this drama about a limited group of people that if it only applies to them will clearly be a fast SHRINKING group of people? Doesn't make sense, does it?

[holy cow cm]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Watch his videos. A key is his explanation about how many people incorrectly make distinctions between O and O-A visas that aren't actually in the immigration law. For example when applying for retirement extensions they are treated exactly the same. He also quotes an authoritative immigration official source saying it WILL include all retirement extensions. I think the most ethical thing to tell expats now is --

we don't know yet. We'll probably know a lot more after 31 October. I'm not saying he's right or wrong at this point but he backs up his POV quite strongly.

I'm not going to link to his videos as it's my impression that it's frowned upon partly because his POV seems to conflict with the party line here.

 

Reuters posted an interview with the health minister and it stated all over 50 long term with extensions will be incorporated into he stick web.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm quite concerned about what's going to happen to retirement extension applicants after 31 October. I reckon the vast majority won't be prepared for this if they actually start enforcing this right away even if they have insurance. What insurance? Does it qualify? What expiration date of the insurance? If it expires in two months, your annual extensions is only two months yet?

 

At least in terms of O-A visa holders, the current rule is pretty clear....

 

If you have an O-A visa and try to enter Thailand with only the coming 6 months of valid insurance coverage, Immigration seems to be saying they'd only issue you a 6 month permission to stay (the remaining validity of your health insurance) instead of the normal year.

 

Will the same principle end up being applied to extensions of stay???  Hmmmm.

 

In my case, my retirement extension pretty much syncs up with my health insurance renewals, because I took out my original health insurance at the same time I originally moved to Thailand.  But obviously, that's not going to be the case for a lot of folks.

 

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Another point -- IF it turns out this is only about O-A visa applications outside of Thailand and it will never touch extensions, then logically, wouldn't a large percentage of people that would have used O-A visas switch to starting here without them? So all this drama about a limited group of people that if it only applies to them will clearly be a fast SHRINKING group of people? Doesn't make sense, does it?

It absolutely covers extensions of O-A visa. It is there in Black & White. There is absolutely no disputing it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Okay, guys I have prepared a "cheat sheet" summarizing what appears on the websites of the companies listed on the tgia site. Here

 

Will update as websites are updated. Note that info on websites is far from complete, but this may provide enough info to help people narrow down choices.

 

Sheryl, the above posted link isn't working for me, when I try to access it.

 

[holy cow cm]

Anyway one looks at it, it is a money grab movement at very high inflated rates for the industry here and will also act as a weeding out process of the foreigners at all costs with no care even if they have condos as investments or families. Once off the long term then there are only a few ins and outs left and the IO's will take discretion and then there you have it. Bye bye. 

[Exploring Thailand]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Sheryl, the above posted link isn't working for me, when I try to access it.

 

You have to remove do=edit from the end.  Try this one

 

 

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Sheryl, the above posted link isn't working for me, when I try to access it.

 

 

try again now

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1128396-cheat-sheet-for-longstay-insurance-policies/

 

[the guest]

Not sure what the fuss is? Thais when travelling to Europe must have valid insurance. 

[Assurancetourix]

We are talking about long-term tourism, right?

Why 25 pages that are almost all written by people who are not tourists but retired?
This law does not concern you.

[Assurancetourix]

5 minutes ago, the guest said:

Thais when travelling to Europe must have valid insurance.

You know a lot of thai who come to visit for more than three months in Europe?

 

Here we are talking about a long-term tourist visa: one year, not three months.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

We are talking about long-term tourism, right?

Why 25 pages that are almost all written by people who are not tourists but retired?
This law does not concern you.

Retirement status here is not much more than long term tourist status with no path at all for improving on that.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

We are talking about long-term tourism, right?

Why 25 pages that are almost all written by people who are not tourists but retired?
This law does not concern you.

 

You're wrong about that, and apparently going to be even more wrong soon.

[Sheryl]

We are talking about long-term tourism, right?
Why 25 pages that are almost all written by people who are not tourists but retired?
This law does not concern you.

On the contrary it dpecifically and solely concerns people on a type of retirement visa. Not tourist visa.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Assurancetourix]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

On the contrary it dpecifically and solely concerns people on a type of retirement visa. Not tourist visa.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I have not invented anything, it's the title of the article;

In this case, the title is wrong
I live here with a "family" visa for almost fifteen years; I am not a tourist .

 

" Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists "

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

I have not invented anything, it's the title of the article;

In this case, the title is wrong
I live here with a "family" visa for almost fifteen years; I am not a tourist .

 

" Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists "

More to the story than the headline, dude.

 

Next ,,,

[beachproperty]

I'm here on a Non-immigrant O Visa (Extension on that for the last 16 years). Does adding 400,000 Baht to the 800,ooo baht count as "self insurance". And what happens when I leave on vacation next month outside of Thailand and return? Will I be denied entry if I have no proof of insurance?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

I'm here on a Non-immigrant O Visa (Extension on that for the last 16 years). Does adding 400,000 Baht to the 800,ooo baht count as "self insurance". And what happens when I leave on vacation next month outside of Thailand and return? Will I be denied entry?

No there is nothing about self insurance that has been published.

 

Enforcement specifics as in your question are unknowable now. We don't even know yet for sure if this will be enforced for extensions at all or if so the specifics of that. 

 

Just some more clear as muddy mud immigration rules. 

[Angry Dragon]

On 10/11/2019 at 5:23 PM, bronzedude said:

I hope all the foreigners with diplomatic passports are subject to the same rules as the rest of us. I'm sure they are considered long stay non-immigrants. Maybe then foreign governments may see the inequality and thoughtlessness of these Thai get rich ministerial schemes.

they will be covered by their government provided insurance, so no worries.

[saengd]

I just came back from talking with Viriyah Insurance, their long stay insurance does not allow deductibles, is for 404,000/40,000 THB and allows anyone up to age 100 to apply and be insured. Premiums are as follows:

 

61-65 - 59,150

66-70 - 69,000

71-75 - 94,000

76-80 - 109,400

81-85 - 145,500

86-90 - 168,100

91-95 - 218,250

96-100 - 249,900

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, saengd said:

I just came back from talking with Viriyah Insurance, their long stay insurance does not allow deductibles, is for 404,000/40,000 THB and allows anyone up to age 100 to apply and be insured. Premiums are as follows:

 

61-65 - 59,150

66-70 - 69,000

71-75 - 94,000

76-80 - 109,400

81-85 - 145,500

86-90 - 168,100

91-95 - 218,250

96-100 - 249,900

They killed the O-X, now the O-A.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

39 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

they will be covered by their government provided insurance, so no worries.

 

I don't think that's going to be their out. Their out is gonna be that they're not here on O-A visas where the insurance requirement is being applied, but instead on a diplomatic visa where it's NOT being applied.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

40 minutes ago, saengd said:

I just came back from talking with Viriyah Insurance, their long stay insurance does not allow deductibles, is for 404,000/40,000 THB and allows anyone up to age 100 to apply and be insured. Premiums are as follows:

 

61-65 - 59,150

66-70 - 69,000

71-75 - 94,000

76-80 - 109,400

81-85 - 145,500

86-90 - 168,100

91-95 - 218,250

96-100 - 249,900

 

They have policy info and a premium chart on a webpage linked to the TGIA Longstay website:

 

https://www.viriyah.co.th/en/longstay-form.php#.XaVYxUYzY2w

 

 

 

One interesting part is, you've quoted a premium list that covers up to age 100... But the premium chart on their own webpage tops out at 70 years.

 

 

[john west]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:16 AM, Thaiwrath said:

Hopefully, this will avoid numerous scaremongering, nonsensical posts as in the other threads about the insurance

It quite clearly states long term tourists and yes indeed a very good idea and yes so much more money would be obtained and as for those who are living here on long term permission to stay and appears maybe in due course it will be extended to all of us and yes surely if one can show a reserve for an emergency figure and yes does not take in to account properties owned.
Yes the tourists do cost a lot of money and many somehow simply cannot pay.
we all await but if one has a current permission to stay then in any case still would be valid, but who knows in the future and it depends on the interpretation of this, as usual

[jimn]

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

They killed the O-X, now the O-A.

I agree. They have produced a form for overseas policies that can be used for the first year which will be worthless due to the signatures reqired and now this for example for someone between 61 and 65 a policy will cost over £1500 crazy. I take out a policy which covers pre existing conditions for my 7.5 month stay every year. It costs £250 with in patient and out patient cover way over the required levels

[balo]

If you're in your early 50's and healthy you can get yearly insurance well under 20k baht. So I don't understand why they talk about 40k minimum. 
 

[nongsung]

While it’s unsure whether ‘retirement’ is (or will be) included in the requirements for an extension of stay begin next year I (but mostly my wife) did some homework. I live here for over 10 years and am self insured. I can cope with a major medical bill

but insurance would be a good thing if the coverage is good and the premium reasonable.
We all know how the coverage and premiums look like at longstay-etc-etc.

With these companies you are in a pool together and in this pool the risks are higher than average; hence the high premiums.

But it looks that I can get a hospital insurance from AXA OUTSIDE of this pool and that’s where it gets a much better deal. 800.000 coverage with 100.000 outpatient for a little  over 42K. I’m 64 BTW.

 

I’m waiting for the final details from the Krungthai bank but they said that it would be accepted by immigration.

 

Requirements; living in Thailand for a minimum of 2 years, married and a yellow book. 

 

I’ll keep you all posted if it is all true or another

false promise.

[Sheryl]

8 hours ago, saengd said:

I just came back from talking with Viriyah Insurance, their long stay insurance does not allow deductibles, is for 404,000/40,000 THB and allows anyone up to age 100 to apply and be insured. Premiums are as follows:

 

61-65 - 59,150

66-70 - 69,000

71-75 - 94,000

76-80 - 109,400

81-85 - 145,500

86-90 - 168,100

91-95 - 218,250

96-100 - 249,900

 

At the older ages you could get an Elite visa and buy real insurance for less than this.

[Sheryl]

Just did the math for my 89 year old aunt who is likely to need to come stay with me at some point

 

	Visa cost	Mandatory Insurance	Real Insurance	Total	USD per year	Monthly equivalent
OA	100	218,250	263,500	481,850	15,544	777.1774194
TE	100,000	0	263,500	363,500	11,726	977.1505376

 

As you can see, TE is significantly less expensive

 

It will be so for anyone over 75

[Huckenfell]

On 10/12/2019 at 11:31 AM, soisanuk said:

First, many are still confused by the terms "Visa" and "Permission to Stay."  A Visa, normally issued by a Thai Embassy or Consulate allows one to enter the Thailand.  Upon entry, Immigration will place a permission to stay stamp in the passport usually based on the type of entry (Visa Exempt - 30 days, Tourist Visa - 60 days, Non-Immigrant Visa - "O, B, Ed, etc. - 90 days, & Non-Immigrant "O-A" - one year).  If the Visa is designated "M" for multiple entry, then it can be used several times so long as entry is within its validity period, normally 90 days from issuance, but in case of the O-A Visa, one year from date of issuance.  The days granted as a "permission to stay" will begin on the date of entry, even if it is just before the expiration date of the Visa (enter by date).

 

Once you enter Thailand, it is the "permission to stay" stamp that is important as you must either leave Thailand by that date OR obtain an extension to that date from Thai Immigration - permission to stay based on Visa Exempt and Tourist Visa entry can be extended upon application to Thai Immigration one time for 30 days. Permission to stay based on Non-Immigrant Visas usually can be extended up to a maximum of one year (Ed category has restrictions) provided the purpose is permitted under Immigration rules - these rules show the allowable purposes for the extension along with the requirements to qualify and the documentation to support meeting those requirements.

 

As to the requirement for health insurance.

 

The last paragraph in the new rules posted by Immigration relate only to the holders of the Non-Immigrant "O-A" (category) Visa. This Visa is granted only by Thai Embassies/Consulates in the applicant's country of residence. Most Embassies/Consulates refer to it as a "long stay" Visa, but is often referred to as a "retirement" Visa because to qualify for it, one must meet the Immigration Law requirements for staying in Thailand as a retiree (age, finances, medical, & criminal record).  As mentioned, the "permission to stay" upon entry using this Visa is one year. They are a bit confusing, but indicate the O-A Visa issued subject to the health insurance requirement will have some sort of annotation on the validity period of the health insurance policy accepted by the Embassy/Consulate as meeting the requirements.  Apparently, the Permission to Stay upon entry will be limited to the validity period of the accepted insurance policy or, if it has already expired at time of entry or re-entry, it will not be accepted for entry (in such cases, Immigration usually gives a permission to stay of 30 days as a Visa Exempt entry - if holder is from one of the 40+ countries that can receive the Visa Exempt entry).

As mentioned, once the holder of the O-A Visa has entered and received their permission to stay stamp, they can apply for an extension to that one-year period (or earlier date if their health insurance policy expires before the one year period normally granted). When applying at Immigration for an extension of stay, the New rules that govern such applications are quite clear that the health insurance requirement applies (but ONLY to those that entered using an O-A Visa) and that they MUST have health insurance - Section 2-22 regarding extending one's stay based on retirement shows in item (2) under the "reason": An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A according to the Criterion 6, will be permitted to stay for a period of insurance and coverage. Each permission shall be granted for no more than 1 year. (Emphasis added)  Thus showing it applies to the initial and any subsequent application for an extension if the original and subsequent extensions were based on an O-A category Visa. 

Further, under the Criteria for granting the extension, the added criterion, no. (6) states it is: Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A, must buy a Thai health insurance online, which covers the length of stay in the Kingdom with no less than 40,000 baht coverage for outpatient treatment and no less than 400,000 baht for inpatient, via the website longstay.tgia.org. (Emphasis added)  As written, it appears that only a policy purchased via the longstay webpage of the Thailand General Insurance Association (TGIA) will be accepted.  A literal interpretation, which may well be taken by Thai Immigration Officers, is that no other policy, Thai or otherwise will be acceptable.  That said, it is possible, but  not guaranteed, that if you entered on an O-A category Non-Immigrant Visa and have a Thai insurance company policy, especially if one of the companies included on the TGIA webpage applicable to O-A Visa holders (they also have a link to those applicable only to the O-X Visa - the so-called 10 year retirement visa that has been available for a few years now), you may be able to get the "Certificate" regarding having health insurance that meets the requirements. If you can get such a certificate, it most likely IMO will suffice for Immigration to accept you meet the requirements.

 

So far there is nothing that shows the new health insurance requirement applies to other than holders of the Category O-A Non-Immigrant Visa.  Many of us that are on extensions for the purpose of retirement did so as holders of a Non-Immigrant O Visa (which can be issued for several reasons, the most common being for those married/related to a Thai or retirement) - thus it IS NOT subject to the new health insurance requirement even though the basis for continued extensions of stay are for retirement purposes.

It is obvious in these early stages, there is a lot of speculation and misinformation being stated as fact.  My suggestion is to rely only on official announcements from either Immigration Bureau or Ministry of Foreign Affairs (including their respective Embassies/Consulates) and NOT on any by officials from the Ministry of Public Health as they IMO obviously don't know or understand Visa and Immigration requirements.  At  present, I have not seen any official announcements from Ministry of Foreign Affairs on new requirements for obtaining the O-A Visa - thus, reports that they will accept a health insurance policy other than those listed by TGIA are not yet IMO officially confirmed.

 

CORRECTION !

I am the holder of an O-A retirement visa which expires on 9th of December.

Today i visited the Koh Samui Immigration office to clarify my position regarding the new insurance requirement. On showing them that my visa expired on 9th December. I was told that provided i left the country and returned BEFORE the due date, that i would be stamped back in with NO insurance requirements for a further 12 months.

 

You say that i must have health insurance to return for my extra 12 months, but the Koh Samui Immigration Office say otherwise !