Are you tired of waiting for the next shoe to drop ?

[wwest5829]

16 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

can't you go to Laos & get a non O on retirement?  Ditch the OA.  Is that possible?

Yes, that is one of the potential work arounds. I'm thinking that might buy some time but I also think the O Visa based on retirement is next up on the medical insurance hit parade...

[Samuel Smith]

14 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

That might have been the case in the past when Thailand was a cheap country to live in. But it is no longer the draw that it was. Unless you want to lower your standards to a basic Thai level, it is often far cheaper to live in, say, many European countries. Food and drink is of a much higher standard for the price, and there is much greater choice.
My advice to anyone thinking of living in Thailand would be to spend a month in the country and 1 - read the English-language press, 2 - watch Thai tv, day or evening, to guage the mentality of the locals, and 3 - spend some time watching the way Thais drive. If you still want to live in Thailand, good luck.

Some of your posts are in a weird font, hard to read.  Usually when you quote another post.

[Samuel Smith]

Just now, wwest5829 said:

Yes, that is one of the potential work arounds. I'm thinking that might buy some time but I also think the O Visa based on retirement is next up on the medical insurance hit parade...

Well. I'd go for that option.  Cross the other bridge when you get to it.  IMHO the fact that funds are in a bank account for normal non O extensions leads me to think they wont go down the cr@p insurance policy route for a while, & by then accept proper international policies.

[abrahamzvi]

23 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not logical. Look at the insurance plans they're promoting. Closer to covering a sprained ankle than something major.

Signed.
Captain Onerous

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What you are saying is exaggerated and incorrect. Depending on your age and previous medical history, quite a lot is covered. Further, I can't understand why people are complaining. To start with the new regulation regarding Medical Aid does not apply to holders of a retirement permit. It does apply to new arrivals who qualify for a retirement extension. Next, in most European countries one wouldn't get a visa without proof of adequate insurance. I haven't heard of a Thai complaining about this requirement when applying for a Schengen visa. Further, I consider having adequate medical insurance is a most sensible thing, particularly when we get older.

[Bangkok Barry]

12 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

Some of your posts are in a weird font, hard to read.  Usually when you quote another post.

Strange, looks fine on my laptop.

[fruitman]

On 10/11/2019 at 1:50 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

It's like in some western countries where lots of people complain about all those expensive migrants. As far as I know in many countries these migrants bring in total more money than they cost. But still there is a lot of sentiment against them because they are so expensive.

 

555555, only a Swede can say something as ridiculous as that.....????????

[allenberg]

19 hours ago, sirineou said:

I always thought we were a minority among expats  in Thailand but I could be wrong. If there are more news stories in the forum it is IMO because the US plays a more prevalent role in international affairs than other countries, and not for any favoritism toward Americans. 

I was not aware that Americans can leave their money  in American banks and qualify for extensions to stay .Is that True??

No

[OneMoreFarang]

52 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

For me it seems Thailand is enforcing some existing laws.

And they think about how to handle all those old people who can't or won't pay their hospital bills.

 

I understand that this makes some people unhappy and probably some people will have to leave Thailand.

But on the other hand I understand that Thailand does not want that some people are a burden to the country. And that's what they are if they don't pay their hospital bills.

Yes ... but... I had a heart attack here in Chiang Mai, Dec. 2015. Keep in mind I had 5 by-passes in the US in 2005 so at age 72 there is no way for this retired professor (only stated so I cannot be assumed to be anything than what I am as a retiree) to afford the required medical insurance, and then pre-existing conditions excluded. Oh, I have a policy that paid $5000 of the $11,000 USD total and I paid the rest (ouch!) from personal funds. I agree, quite unfair to burden Thai citizens with the bill but let us deal with facts. That being, I am unable to meet these new requirements and so may be faced to leave Thailand and my family of 2 1/2 years. Reasonable? I think not but ... up to you Thailand. I'm thinking another country will welcome my retirement spending.

I understand that you want to stay here and I hope you and many others will be able to stay here.

When I wrote in my post "I understand..." it seems many people understand this as if I would have written "I agree, that's how it should be".

My point is looking at the situation from a Thai perspective, or more in general: Looking from the perspective of a government of a country about immigrants to that country. Often immigrants and the government and citizens of the country to which they immigrate have different opinions about a lot of things. Is the government always right? No. Are the immigrants always right? No. Both have different points of view. The government most likely creates rules about the majority of immigrants. And/or they make rules according to the sentiment of the people who vote for the government. Is that always fair? No. Do we understand why they do it? I at least understand their motivation. Will this be unfair to some of the immigrants? Sure. But the immigrants don't vote for the government.

 

And I think it's important to try to see both sides. It's kind of funny if here in the forum some people write bad about the immigrants back home but then they demand all rights here from the country they migrated to. How would you think about foreigners if you would be a Thai citizen?

[CLS]

What you are saying is exaggerated and incorrect. Depending on your age and previous medical history, quite a lot is covered. Further, I can't understand why people are complaining. To start with the new regulation regarding Medical Aid does not apply to holders of a retirement permit. It does apply to new arrivals who qualify for a retirement extension. Next, in most European countries one wouldn't get a visa without proof of adequate insurance. I haven't heard of a Thai complaining about this requirement when applying for a Schengen visa. Further, I consider having adequate medical insurance is a most sensible thing, particularly when we get older.

Big difference. Thais only need a travel insurance covering min. 30k Euro. Costs less than 6.000 baht per year. No pre-existing conditions excluded. Can stay outside the country for max. 90 days and then must return.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RedPill]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

What's it got to do with Boris or his 'ilk'

 

It's affecting falangs from every country on the globe not just the UK.

BJ= Mr. Big Joke ....

 

[Samuel Smith]

22 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Strange, looks fine on my laptop.

 

Highlighting your reply makes it visible

Edited October 12, 2019 by Samuel Smith

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, fruitman said:

555555, only a Swede can say something as ridiculous as that.....????????

No, I am not a Swede, and I am not from the UK. But I read the news.

Here is just one article which was easy to find with Google:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/immigration-uk-economy-what-are-the-benefits-stats-theresa-may-amber-rudd-tory-conference-speeches-a7346121.html

 

Is everything they write 100% correct? I don't know. But I read lot of similar articles and my conclusion is that all those foreigners cost a lot less than the average person think they cost.

[Stevemercer]

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't know how much it is and it does not really matter.

What matters is the published cases and the perception of the people.

 

It's like in some western countries where lots of people complain about all those expensive migrants. As far as I know in many countries these migrants bring in total more money than they cost. But still there is a lot of sentiment against them because they are so expensive.

 

Same same, not much different.

 

Yes, public image is against migrants in many western countries, but those governments give certainty, permanence and citizenship to migrants despite those negative 'perceptions'. They enforce the same rule of law for all citizens.

 

Thailand seems to be doing the opposite.

 

A Thai person marries an Australian citizen and they have the right to live in Australia. After 2 years they become a permanent resident with the same rights as all Australians. They have complete freedom of movement with no need to report to anyone. They can be employed in any job. They can start and run a business subject to the same rules as any Australian citizen. They are entitled to free health care and unemployment benefits. They can buy and own land. There is no discrimatory pricing for foreigners (in fact it is illegal). It's the same in most western countries.

 

Tell me, do foreigners married to Thais living in Thailand get the same certainty or security?

Edited October 12, 2019 by Stevemercer

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And they think about how to handle all those old people who can't or won't pay their hospital bills.

 

I think it's total B.S. to argue or claim that any sizable portion of the retirement visa / extension expat community here runs off with unpaid hospital bills. I'm sure it happens in a few cases, and probably more than a few when the person dies before being able to settle up.

 

But clearly, the vast majority of whatever problem the Thai government has with unpaid farang hospital bills is coming from the come and go tourist population -- which is the group they just got finished SHELVING a proposed health insurance requirement/fee for out of fear it will impact their precious tourist visitor statistics.

 

Whatever's driving the recent war (embassy letters, bank deposits, TM30 and now health insurance) on farang expats living here, I think it has relatively little to do with the puny amounts of unpaid hospital bills -- annual amounts that the Thai government probably itself wastes or squanders on a daily basis every day throughout the year. Apparently, you've decided to buy into the bogus anti-farang propaganda.

 

[Bangkok Barry]

6 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

 

Highlighting your reply makes it visible

 

Okay. I was using dark mode but have disengaged it for this site. Strange no-one else mentioned it ????

[Samuel Smith]

5 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Okay. I was using dark mode but have disengaged it for this site. Strange no-one else mentioned it ????

They were too polite.  Been in Thailand too long ????

Edited October 12, 2019 by Samuel Smith

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

 

Yes, public image is against migrants in many western countries, but those governments give certainty, permanence and citizenship to migrants despite those negative 'perceptions'. They enforce the same rule of law for all citizens.

 

Thailand seems to be doing the opposite.

 

A Thai person marries an Australian citizen and they have the right to live in Australia. After 2 years they become a permanent resident with the same rights as all Australians. They have complete freedom of movement with no need to report to anyone. They can be employed in any job. They are entitled to free health care and unemployment benefits. They can buy and own land. It's the same in most western countries.

 

Tell me, do foreigners married to Thais living in Thailand get the same certainty or security?

Obviously we don't get the same certainty or security.

But I think it's fair that every country can make up the rules they want. And maybe they can make agreements with other countries which guarantees similar rights.

Let's not forget that we all decided to stay in Thailand. Some of us studied the details before we came here, some not. And many of us accepted for many years that Thailand does not enforce their own laws. Visa runs are a typical example. Should we blame Thailand because many of us decided to stay here because we like it but we didn't think abut the long term situation?

Personally I am working in Thailand and I have a health insurance. But at some stage I will likely stop working. And then I still want to have a health insurance. And likely that will be expensive. Do I like that? No. But it's reality and I accept that I have to accept reality - if I like it or not.

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

What you are saying is exaggerated and incorrect. Depending on your age and previous medical history, quite a lot is covered. Further, I can't understand why people are complaining. To start with the new regulation regarding Medical Aid does not apply to holders of a retirement permit. It does apply to new arrivals who qualify for a retirement extension. Next, in most European countries one wouldn't get a visa without proof of adequate insurance. I haven't heard of a Thai complaining about this requirement when applying for a Schengen visa. Further, I consider having adequate medical insurance is a most sensible thing, particularly when we get older.

Huh?

What are you talking about?

The requirement is 400K inpatient, 40K outpatients.

That doesn't do jack for paying for anything serious.

[Skallywag]

56 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Not true. They doubled it just a few years ago, in one jump. Add to that, many long-termers came to Thailand when their currency was worth double what it is now, so it's no wonder some, many, might be struggling. Who would have budgeted for the value of their currency halving and government financial demands doubling! No-one, no-one at all.

 

According to posts on ThaiVisa it has been 800,000 baht since 2004 at least for retirement (Non-Imm O) Visa in Thailand.   Don't know about you, but I consider 15 years ago to more than a "few" years. 

 

If you had exchanged your sterling 10 years ago, converted enough for the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, then left it in the bank, it would be worth >150% more at todays exchange rate

Renewal Of Retirement Visa

By chuang, January 22, 2004 in Thai visas, residency and work permits

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Apparently, you've decided to buy into the bogus anti-farang propaganda.

Why do you think that?

It does not matter what I think or you think or all the other TV members think. What matters is what the Thai government decides and what people who vote for the Thai government think.

Thais vote in Thailand for a Thai government and they make the rules. And they don't have to ask the foreigners who live her if we like the rules.

It's like that all over the world. Ask those foreigners "back home".

[Thaidream]

22 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

n my experience  that has always been a frustrating  feature of  the "officialdom" in Thailand but I have come to understand it is  no exclusive to the experience of expats . Even for Thais those shifting sands have a tendency to create reluctance to anything involving or recognizing anything other than a gratuitous monetary opportunity with no inkling of the fact they are only receiving a  minute percentage of what they already acceded to those who control them.

Is the lack of  consistency incidental, accidental, or  deliberate? Whichever it is a  factor of life in Thailand or the entirety of inhabitants.

IMO- it is always deliberate- no matter whate officaldome wants to do- it is always passed through a financial lens and those at the top always get their share- either through kickbacks, being appointed  as a board member, or as paid advisors.  None of this is directed at  foreigners per se- but anyone in Thailand.  However, foreigners are deemed to have more resources than Thais and thus we pay more.

 

Every rule, every regulation, every utterance has some way to be able to be 'interepreted' in a way that will benefit officialdom- either by  completely ignoring the law; bending it; or interpreting it in a way that benefits all concerned. Of course- a gratuity is always expected

 

Why was money in the bank for retirment extnesion changed;  proof of income changed-  the impetus was 3 Embassies refusing to provide a simple document vereifying income.  When the Thai officialdom was rebuffed- they simply made it more difficult for the applicants- not impossible and the out was use an agent.  

 

The insurance issue  has no bearing on how many people can't pay their bill. It has everything to do with  getting Thai Insurance Companies providing costly policies and  providing little real coverage. If a person has  a 400K limit on their policy and the bill comes to one million baht- they will still be short the difference .  Money will be made off the O-A for new retirees coming in simply because the O-X failed to sell as  the levels  of finances and insurance were too high.  The new police order grandfathers  current O-A holders  but eventuall all of us will  expire and there are plent of new fish .

I have given up worrying about any of it- until there is a change in adminsitration- nothning positive will take place. I hope for the best and plan as much as possible for the worst.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

Thais vote in Thailand for a Thai government and they make the rules.

 

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to Thailand's recent history.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Should we blame Thailand because many of us decided to stay here because we like it but we didn't think abut the long term situation?

You can blame Thailand for the constant rule changes  , rules that all Thai officials interpret differently or rules that just make up as they go along .

  Some rules are not enforced and other non rules are enforced .

   Thailand really should have made clear rules that everyone can adhere to  , rather than constant rule changes are are sometimes enforced and sometimes not .

   They need to make clear rules that everyone can follow , rather than the authorities making up the rules as they go along 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

You can blame Thailand for the constant rule changes  , rules that all Thai officials interpret differently or rules that just make up as they go along .

  Some rules are not enforced and other non rules are enforced .

   Thailand really should have made clear rules that everyone can adhere to  , rather than constant rule changes are are sometimes enforced and sometimes not .

   They need to make clear rules that everyone can follow , rather than the authorities making up the rules as they go along 

In principle you are right.

But imagine if Thailand would have enforced all their laws strict since decades. How many of us would have decided to live here?

How many of us could have lived here legally if they would have enforced all the laws?

Point is many of us are used to not enforced laws and we got used to it and we expected that it stays like that. But things change - also in Thailand.

[wwest5829]

33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I understand that you want to stay here and I hope you and many others will be able to stay here.

When I wrote in my post "I understand..." it seems many people understand this as if I would have written "I agree, that's how it should be".

My point is looking at the situation from a Thai perspective, or more in general: Looking from the perspective of a government of a country about immigrants to that country. Often immigrants and the government and citizens of the country to which they immigrate have different opinions about a lot of things. Is the government always right? No. Are the immigrants always right? No. Both have different points of view. The government most likely creates rules about the majority of immigrants. And/or they make rules according to the sentiment of the people who vote for the government. Is that always fair? No. Do we understand why they do it? I at least understand their motivation. Will this be unfair to some of the immigrants? Sure. But the immigrants don't vote for the government.

 

And I think it's important to try to see both sides. It's kind of funny if here in the forum some people write bad about the immigrants back home but then they demand all rights here from the country they migrated to. How would you think about foreigners if you would be a Thai citizen?

I do not take issue with what you write above. We have to deal with our reality. How would I feel as a Thai citizen? Well, I would welcome tourists or retirees in the US (OK, I own Disney Stock). Are they good people, then welcome ... please spend your money here and learn about my culture. Could we also raise the question, how would a Thai feel if being subject to the same conditions that I am subject to in Thailand. You are quite correct in observing there is a right wing, nationalist, ethnocentric swing globally.

[Bangkok Barry]

What no-one appears to have mentioned above is that there is something called the law, which if it involves Thais being shafted by foreigners might work very efficiently indeed.

 

If someone leaves hospital without paying the bill then that is fraud. If it is a resident then the hospital can take legal action and the authorities can deny or revoke their visa. If it is a tourist they can be arrested at the border as they try to leave. Immigration is a department of the police so it shouldn't be beyond them to issue an alert.

 

It's really not that difficult, if they want to make an effort instead of punishing everyone for the wrong-doings of a few. That's the usual Thai way though, using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

[Orton Rd]

On 10/11/2019 at 6:31 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

For me it seems Thailand is enforcing some existing laws.

And they think about how to handle all those old people who can't or won't pay their hospital bills.

 

I understand that this makes some people unhappy and probably some people will have to leave Thailand.

But on the other hand I understand that Thailand does not want that some people are a burden to the country. And that's what they are if they don't pay their hospital bills.

The change making some on extensions keep 800k in the bank for 5 months (i stick to 6 as don't trust them) and 400k for the rest of the year is not enforcing existing laws, it's new like compulsory insurance, and this is just the start. Some people are happy put up with anything, even being told what they can do with their own money

Edited October 12, 2019 by Orton Rd

[Matzzon]

On 10/11/2019 at 1:59 PM, CLS said:

 

 

This is not a fair comparison. Migrants that steal local jobs are not retirees that only spend money.

TH has less than 1% foreigners, my home country 26%.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

How can you say 1% when it is around 5 million non Thai that are living in Thailand. Because when you state 26%, then you count all foreigners living and working in your country disregarding what different country they came from. Right?

In other words, the population in Thailand is about 70 million. That will make the amount of foreigners in Thailand about 7-7,3%

[Bangkok Barry]

24 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Should we blame Thailand because many of us decided to stay here because we like it but we didn't think abut the long term situation?

Who would have forecast that 1 - the Thais would move the goalposts so aggressively against foreigners, and 2 - the currency value of many had declined by up to 50 percent, depending on the currency and how long the foreigner has been in Thailand. Thailand is far from the country that many once decided to move to.

[Caldera]

I can honestly say that I just don't care any longer. Thanks to their shenanigans, I've visited and re-visited many great places in SEA outside of Thailand this year, and I'll just do more of that - and less Thailand - in the future.

 

15 years ago, when I first came to the region, Thailand well and truly stood out as THE place to have a great time. In my personal opinion, the playing field is much more leveled now - you can have an equally good time (and often quite a bit cheaper) in neighboring countries.