OA insurance - the issues

[Suradit69]

7 hours ago, oznomad said:

Ok, what we want here are issues based on facts. Not speculations, guesses, questions etc.

Plenty of other threads on the topic for those.

 

Yes, there are plenty of other threads. It's now becoming a form of public onanism and not much else.

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, oznomad said:

Me.

I raised the topic to gather information, in the hope of presenting it to someone near the top of the food chain, that is probably not aware of the points being made.

I reckon I was pretty clear what the thread is about, but nooooo.

Tangents, off topic comments and questions, speculation, etc.

Plenty of other threads on OA insurance for all that.

 

Hopefully a mod might be along to guide a novice about starting a thread then being a school teacher.

Would you like me to stand back of room with hands on head. My post was very constructive. 

It would seem insurance from Thai providers will not cover you for medical needs outside of los. Some xpats live here and very rarely travel. Some like myself exit los MANY times a year. It would appear that if someone obtained O-A they might need extra insurance. The O-A is a multi entry visa. Most likely pitched at folk wishing to visit neighboring countries. As I mentioned, I visit Saigon often, Japan few times a year. Am I covered with that insurance? Simple and sensible question. Negative question in your mind apparently. 

[Sheryl]

Please keep it civil.

 

Many if these policies will cover you, at least foelr energencies, outside Thailand but you need to check the policy terms in detail.

 

Unless the company happens to have a oresence in the country in question you would likely need to pay first and be reimbursed.

 

I would suggest you look at Pacific Cross and (if 65 or under) April Thailand which as previously posted is underwritten by LMG who are on the "list".

 

Save yourself a lot of trouble by using a good broker, they'll get all the info and policy docs to rweiew for you and also help with any claim issues afterwards.

 

It does not cost more to go through a broker.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[pmarlowe]

1. i first read that the insurance requirement did not apply to retirement visa renewal. and then i read it did. Any concrete answer to this? Naturally if it is not required the next point is moot. If so however....

2. I am covered way over the max by Cigna in Thailand (and everywhere else except the USA where i don't need it). However, it is mostly in patient coverage. To add outpatient would bump my premium by more than double the 40k requirement, which doesn't make sense, especially given the cash I am required to keep in a Thai bank throughout the year to maintain a retirement visa.

So on point number 2. I guess i am asking has anyone thought this through as most out patient treatments are quite inexpensive?

[LivinLOS]

8 hours ago, glegolo said:

I do not fully grasp all the details in this thing with insurance and Non Immigrant O-A VISA but to my own understanding I thought that if I have (like you have) an insurance covering the demand from the Imiigration, I do NOT need to issue/apply for another new one?????

 

I am wrong??

glegolo

Fasle.. It has to be one of the specific policies issued by the listed providers.. Because these policies are designed fo an over 50s 'pool' of users the cost v level of cover is obviously reflecting that customer 'pool'.

 

Hence you see the flaws in the system. 

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, pmarlowe said:

1. i first read that the insurance requirement did not apply to retirement visa renewal. and then i read it did. Any concrete answer to this? Naturally if it is not required the next point is moot. If so however....

2. I am covered way over the max by Cigna in Thailand (and everywhere else except the USA where i don't need it). However, it is mostly in patient coverage. To add outpatient would bump my premium by more than double the 40k requirement, which doesn't make sense, especially given the cash I am required to keep in a Thai bank throughout the year to maintain a retirement visa.

So on point number 2. I guess i am asking has anyone thought this through as most out patient treatments are quite inexpensive?

Just to clarify. You are not extending your visa. You are applying for new "permission of stay based on retirement" You do not require insurance. 

Some may post "not required yet" ignore that. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by DrJack54

[Jingthing]

Just to clarify. You are not extending your visa. You are applying for new "permission of stay based on retirement" You do not require insurance. 
Some may post "not required yet" ignore that. 

I disagree. You are extending your original visa. No original visa and you have nothing to extend.

As far as health insurance requirements for extensions there are different readings of that. I think it's too early for anyone to be definitive.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree. You are extending your original visa. No original visa and you have nothing to extend.

As far as health insurance requirements for extensions there are different readings of that. I think it's too early for anyone to be definitive.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So I arrive los with O-A. Then at some point I get married then apply for 12 month permission of stay based on marriage. 

Then I nick her off but we have child. I apply for permission of stay based on parent if Thai. Then I apply for extension based on retirement.

You serious?

Edited October 14, 2019 by DrJack54

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree. You are extending your original visa. No original visa and you have nothing to extend.

As far as health insurance requirements for extensions there are different readings of that. I think it's too early for anyone to be definitive.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

BTW why post about insurance requirement for extensions. I'm surprised you post that as generally your posts are in order. This one is bit over the top and scare mongering.

[gaviny]

Madmen, I have an extension of stay but spend only 8 months a year here in 2 blocks of 4 months , I come on a 4 months travel insurance each time , will that insurance not be accepted by IO ?

Travel insurance of any kind Will be only valid on a tourist visa.
 

[madmen]

14 minutes ago, gaviny said:

Madmen, I have an extension of stay but spend only 8 months a year here in 2 blocks of 4 months , I come on a 4 months travel insurance each time , will that insurance not be accepted by IO ?

You will need to email your provider. Travel insurance is for travellers as the name suggests. A retirement extension as the name suggests is for retires

[Sheryl]

57 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree. You are extending your original visa. No original visa and you have nothing to extend.

As far as health insurance requirements for extensions there are different readings of that. I think it's too early for anyone to be definitive.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You are not extending your visa. The visa and its expiration date remain unchanged.

 

You are extending your permission to stay under the visa, which is a different thing.

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, gaviny said:

Madmen, I have an extension of stay but spend only 8 months a year here in 2 blocks of 4 months , I come on a 4 months travel insurance each time , will that insurance not be accepted by IO ?

 

At present it is not clear if any sort of foreign policy will be accepted, period.

 

Local brokers are trying to find out.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, pmarlowe said:

1. i first read that the insurance requirement did not apply to retirement visa renewal. and then i read it did. Any concrete answer to this? Naturally if it is not required the next point is moot. If so however....

2. I am covered way over the max by Cigna in Thailand (and everywhere else except the USA where i don't need it). However, it is mostly in patient coverage. To add outpatient would bump my premium by more than double the 40k requirement, which doesn't make sense, especially given the cash I am required to keep in a Thai bank throughout the year to maintain a retirement visa.

So on point number 2. I guess i am asking has anyone thought this through as most out patient treatments are quite inexpensive?

 

1. No concrete answer (other than that extensions of stay under an O visa would nto apply). There are basically 3 schools of thought:

 

1 - does not apply to extensions of stay, only to entries under a current O-A

 

2 - applies to extensions of stay but only for people entering on an O-A that was issued after 31 October 2019 (effective date of the order)

 

3 - applies to extension of stay for everyone whose initial permission of stay was under an O-A.

 

#1 makes no sense to me given the wording of the police order which specifically includes a revision to the section on extensions of stay.  I can see a case to be made for both #1 and #2.

 

As to your second question - obviously the people who developed this policy were clueless about both health care costs and health insurance.

 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree. You are extending your original visa. No original visa and you have nothing to extend.

As far as health insurance requirements for extensions there are different readings of that. I think it's too early for anyone to be definitive.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

If I arrive Visa exempt, pray tell what I'm extending as I didn't enter with a Visa.

[madmen]

35 minutes ago, gaviny said:

Madmen, I have an extension of stay but spend only 8 months a year here in 2 blocks of 4 months , I come on a 4 months travel insurance each time , will that insurance not be accepted by IO ?

Actually forget the new insurance rules. on a retirement extension alone your travel insurance may not be valid. 

[DrJack54]

27 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If I arrive Visa exempt, pray tell what I'm extending as I didn't enter with a Visa.

I know I could just tick a like about your post. Meaning your spot on.  You are correcting an experienced poster about the understanding of extending "permission of stay". Another " expert" on TV with extensive knowledge across the board still maintains its the original visa that's being extended. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by DrJack54

[DrJack54]

32 minutes ago, madmen said:

Actually forget the new insurance rules. on a retirement extension alone your travel insurance may not be valid. 

Surely you mean on "extension of stay based on retirement"  insurance is not required. 

[Stevemercer]

My biggest problem is with the requirement for 40,000 outpatient coverage.

 

Outpatient is the biggest cost in any Thai insurance policy. I recently got rid of mine and saved about 35% off the premium.

 

Most of us can go to a local clinic or public hospital and pay about 200 Baht. A specialist appointment at a private hospital might stretch to 1,000 Baht. 

 

The cost per visit is minimal and I very much doubt foreigners skip on payment. I very much doubt the typical visitor would want or ever need 40,000 Baht coverage per year (200 visits to a public hospital).

 

I would like to know the basis for mandatory outpatient insurance and how the 40,000 Baht coverage was arrived at. This is because this coverage will be a major component of any mandatory insurance, seems unnecessary and will be paid per visit given the minimal cost per visit.

[DrJack54]

34 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

My biggest problem is with the requirement for 40,000 outpatient coverage.

 

Outpatient is the biggest cost in any Thai insurance policy. I recently got rid of mine and saved about 35% off the premium.

 

Most of us can go to a local clinic or public hospital and pay about 200 Baht. A specialist appointment at a private hospital might stretch to 1,000 Baht. 

 

The cost per visit is minimal and I very much doubt foreigners skip on payment. I very much doubt the typical visitor would want or ever need 40,000 Baht coverage per year (200 visits to a public hospital).

 

I would like to know the basis for mandatory outpatient insurance and how the 40,000 Baht coverage was arrived at. This is because this coverage will be a major component of any mandatory insurance, seems unnecessary and will be paid per visit given the minimal cost per visit.

So what's your point. You need stay los with ongoing O-A? 

If you qualify for extensions based in retirement then insurance is not an issue.

[Wake Up]

Can any of you guys read or are most of you convinced Thailand does not want expats anymore?  IMO you must have health insurance but my opinion does not matter. What matters is if you are on an extension of stay and single and have 800k in the Thai bank relax and stop worrying about what might happen. If you are married and don’t have 400 k of money to deposit in a thai bank then worry because you are cash poor and cash poor equals disaster in every country in the world not just Thailand. 

[madmen]

41 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Surely you mean on "extension of stay based on retirement"  insurance is not required. 

Of course but I'm replying to a poster that has travel insurance even though its not required. Just warning him that travel insurance based on extension of stay may not pay if he needs to claim..its a bit off topic and not related in any way with immigration or the new insurance requirements

[bigginhill]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

My biggest problem is with the requirement for 40,000 outpatient coverage.

 

Outpatient is the biggest cost in any Thai insurance policy. I recently got rid of mine and saved about 35% off the premium.

 

Most of us can go to a local clinic or public hospital and pay about 200 Baht. A specialist appointment at a private hospital might stretch to 1,000 Baht. 

 

The cost per visit is minimal and I very much doubt foreigners skip on payment. I very much doubt the typical visitor would want or ever need 40,000 Baht coverage per year (200 visits to a public hospital).

 

I would like to know the basis for mandatory outpatient insurance and how the 40,000 Baht coverage was arrived at. This is because this coverage will be a major component of any mandatory insurance, seems unnecessary and will be paid per visit given the minimal cost per visit.

It would maybe more beneficial if they let us put the 40,000 outpatient on a locked hospital debit card. Always available, no annual cost, refundable when no longer needed. 

That way letting who already has insurance to keep what they,ve got. 

[SpokaneAl]

12 hours ago, Don Mega said:

they should accept a foreign insurance certificate.

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

The insurance certificate requires the signature of two directors from one’s insurance company. That sounds like an impossible task to me.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You are not extending your visa. The visa and its expiration date remain unchanged.

 

You are extending your permission to stay under the visa, which is a different thing.

You're playing with semantics. No original visa even if it's 10 years old, no continuous retirement extensions. If you break the chain, what do you do? You get a new VISA. 

Each and every time you apply for a new extension there is a line on the application for the VISA that the extension is based upon. The first year or the 20th. 

 

I have never said that an extension is the same thing as a visa. Of course it is not. But extensions always rely on the base of an original visa.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

So I arrive los with O-A. Then at some point I get married then apply for 12 month permission of stay based on marriage. 

Then I nick her off but we have child. I apply for permission of stay based on parent if Thai. Then I apply for extension based on retirement.

You serious?

Not up on the details of changing reasons for extensions, but of course there is never an annual extension without that original O visa of some kind and continuous extensions with no breaks. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

Can any of you guys read or are most of you convinced Thailand does not want expats anymore?  IMO you must have health insurance but my opinion does not matter. What matters is if you are on an extension of stay and single and have 800k in the Thai bank relax and stop worrying about what might happen. If you are married and don’t have 400 k of money to deposit in a thai bank then worry because you are cash poor and cash poor equals disaster in every country in the world not just Thailand. 

I can read but I fail to see what point you were trying to make with that post.

[Stevemercer]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

So what's your point. You need stay los with ongoing O-A? 

If you qualify for extensions based in retirement then insurance is not an issue.

 

I was just addressing the original post which sought to identify issues with the mandated insurance requirements. This, to me, will be a big sticking point (and therefore issue) for those affected.

 

I am not affected because I am on marriage extensions. My Thai wife is an ex-government employee so I am covered by her insurance. I can claim for outpatient care on this. I also have accident insurance on my ATM card. I also have private insurance capped until I turn 65 (without outpatient cover which reduces the premium by over 30%).

 

So, even if I was affected, I would like to think I have adequate coverage. However, none of this is addressed in the mandated requirements, or the information posted by the government on the web, so I wouldn't have a clue.

[Huckenfell]

I was issued (sold) my O-A visa on certain conditions, i.e Unlimited entries for  the first 12 months with a further 12 months extension provided i left and returned before it expires. If i want to exit and re enter during the 12 month extension, a re entry visa must be bought before leaving. Nothing including health insurance  was required. So will immigration honour the terms of my O-A visa as issued to me. 

[Letseng]

15 hours ago, oznomad said:

Mine is 6 months, it used to be 12 months. Expat insurance?? The matter at hand is health insurance, which is more than adequately covered by my card insurance, plus I get travel parts as well.

Don't overlook that health insurance linked to credit cards won't keep you in Thailand for 6 months but ship you home to go on your NHS care or whatever you call it in your country.