Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Hoppyone]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:16 PM, Jingthing said:

OK. That's one report.

Here's a question I bet you didn't ask them. 

What about those O-A visa people effected if/when they first go for annual extension in Thailand? Insurance required or not?

 

No need to ask as he has already reported to you who needs insurance and he is correct 

[LivinLOS]

9 minutes ago, Hoppyone said:

No need to ask as he has already reported to you who needs insurance and he is correct 

You mean the multiple offices, central phone line, CW head office, etc etc who all say it IS required yes ?? 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Maybe, but "Non-RE" is clearly what Immigration wrote as "Visa Class" on a stamp on the first page of many new passports, and my understanding is that it means that we got a Non Immigrant visa in the aim of getting retirement extensions.

 

It means you entered in a re-entry permit as opposed tioa visa or visa exempt.

 

The information as to what sort of visa you had prior to extension will have been entered in your passport, usually on the first page, by TI if you got a new Passport since that time.  Otherwise the visa itself will still be in your passport.

 

The stamp in question is a larger box that the entry stamps and gives your prior passport number, dare and mode of entry and type of visa you enered on.

[LivinLOS]

Heres one aspect I havent seen any discussion / rampant speculation on yet. 

We believe that after Oct 31 insurance will be needed to ARRIVE with an OA visa and obtain a permission to stay. 

 

We believe that the letter of the law says that the permission to stay will be 'up to the end date of the insurance'. 

 

As insurances will never line up with peoples (often frequent) travel plans, people will be stamped in with periods of less than one year, further round the cycle it is fair to assume people will be arriving with short term insurance periods left in their annual cycle. 

So what then ?? If they get stamped in for say 1 month, even tho they may have a full years visa (or a recent annual extension) do they have to go get that 'extended' when they have thier insurance renewal.. And will that be a mere 'insurance renewal' or will it be a full retirement renewal with the 800k needed in the bank. That 800 of course needing seasoning, for a period longer than the applicant is in Thailand !!! 

This now creates a system where there are the 'visa' end date.. The permission of stay end date.. The insurance renewal end date.. All of which are potentially at different due dates in the year.. The implications of this seem the craziest of any class of entry out there. 

Add in folks like myself, who are in and out of the country, often for large parts of the year, do I now have to buy a 1 year policy, to enter on my previously issued OA visa, even if I am only coming for a few weeks this trip ?? Are they going to let me visa exempt enter, and avoid the insurance (I doubt it) if theres an OA in my passport ?? My travel cycles often have me outside the country for 4 months, back for 1 away for 4.. Is it going to insist I buy annual insurance, when 8 months of that is to be unused. I was looking at doing an OX 10 year solution but this will be a real drawback to that. 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by LivinLOS

[Martyp]

5 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Heres one aspect I havent seen any discussion / rampant speculation on yet. 

We believe that after Oct 31 insurance will be needed to ARRIVE with an OA visa and obtain a permission to stay. 

 

We believe that the letter of the law says that the permission to stay will be 'up to the end date of the insurance'. 

 

As insurances will never line up with peoples (often frequent) travel plans, people will be stamped in with periods of less than one year, further round the cycle it is fair to assume people will be arriving with short term insurance periods left in their annual cycle. 

So what then ?? If they get stamped in for say 1 month, even tho they may have a full years visa (or a recent annual extension) do they have to go get that 'extended' when they have thier insurance renewal.. And will that be a mere 'insurance renewal' or will it be a full retirement renewal with the 800k needed in the bank. That 800 of course needing seasoning, for a period longer than the applicant is in Thailand !!! 

This now creates a system where there are the 'visa' end date.. The permission of stay end date.. The insurance renewal end date.. All of which are potentially at different due dates in the year.. The implications of this seem the craziest of any class of entry out there. 

Add in folks like myself, who are in and out of the country, often for large parts of the year, do I now have to buy a 1 year policy, to enter on my previously issued OA visa, even if I am only coming for a few weeks this trip ?? Are they going to let me visa exempt enter, and avoid the insurance (I doubt it) if theres an OA in my passport ?? My travel cycles often have me outside the country for 4 months, back for 1 away for 4.. Is it going to insist I buy annual insurance, when 8 months of that is to be unused. I was looking at doing an OX 10 year solution but this will be a real drawback to that. 

 

My insurance company, Pacific Cross, said they would sync the dates of my insurance coverage with my extension dates. My insurance currently runs Jan - Jan and my extension expires in mid-November. I could back up my insurance to Dec 1. They said they would sync the dates and reimburse any unused premiums in the process which would be 1 month if I moved it to December.

 

So for most people they would have to do this or at least renew their insurance before their next extension. I have no idea how you get your permission to stay stamp extended after you renew your insurance. A border run might do it or maybe a trip to the Immigration office. Managing the two dates is an additional hassle.

[LivinLOS]

9 minutes ago, Martyp said:

My insurance company, Pacific Cross, said they would sync the dates of my insurance coverage with my extension dates. My insurance currently runs Jan - Jan and my extension expires in mid-November. I could back up my insurance to Dec 1. They said they would sync the dates and reimburse any unused premiums in the process which would be 1 month if I moved it to December.

 

So for most people they would have to do this or at least renew their insurance before their next extension. I have no idea how you get your permission to stay stamp extended after you renew your insurance. A border run might do it or maybe a trip to the Immigration office. Managing the two dates is an additional hassle.

Which assumes people only live here full time.. 

So many of us are in and out constantly, not here parts of the year, etc etc.. 

Secondly that doesnt work nearly as for those same folks who used them as multiple entry VISAS.. Some of us dont get to be here long enough in my work schedule to handle extensions. I am still 3 plus years away from geezer visa, but was looking forward to the simplicity of a 10 year OX, and coming and going as I pleased for years without incountry workload, that seems out the window !!

[Jingthing]

Depending on how many people end up being impacted by the insurance requirement (maybe they'll come to their senses and just drop it as unworkable) I do think the insurance synch dates will end up being a huge nightmare for many expats. The situation here just keeps getting even more onerous. What did we (expats) do to deserve this?

[Martyp]

3 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Which assumes people only live here full time.. 

So many of us are in and out constantly, not here parts of the year, etc etc.. 

Secondly that doesnt work nearly as for those same folks who used them as multiple entry VISAS.. Some of us dont get to be here long enough in my work schedule to handle extensions. I am still 3 plus years away from geezer visa, but was looking forward to the simplicity of a 10 year OX, and coming and going as I pleased for years without incountry workload, that seems out the window !!

You are correct. If you are here long term and stay here then this might work for you. That, I assume is a considerable number of people but for the rest of you I cannot offer a similar solution. Sorry.

 

Also . . . this insurance thing is about O-A visas so if you are not 50 years old and you are coming and going on other types of visas than this insurance thing doesn't apply to you. Right?

Edited October 20, 2019 by Martyp

[lampangguy]

I have 32M baht per year inpatient coverage and the only outpatient coverage is in case of chemo or radiation. Out of interest I checked with my insurance guy the cost to me to have 40k outpatient coverage. It is 70k per year extra on top of the 90k I already pay! They need to rethink this outpatient requirement.


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[flexomike]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:46 PM, weegee said:

Actually....YES I did...

 

OK,  I got an OA visa in 2016, on extensions since does this apply to me or not,  I think from what you are saying it does

[CharlieH]

Just now, flexomike said:

OK,  I got an OA visa in 2016, on extensions since does this apply to me or not,  I think from what you are saying it does

My advice would be to ask "your" office what and how they interpret it.

[Martyp]

6 minutes ago, flexomike said:

OK,  I got an OA visa in 2016, on extensions since does this apply to me or not,  I think from what you are saying it does

I am the same as you. The answer is we don’t know and there are strong opinions on both sides. Just have to wait until next month.

[LivinLOS]

54 minutes ago, Martyp said:

You are correct. If you are here long term and stay here then this might work for you. That, I assume is a considerable number of people but for the rest of you I cannot offer a similar solution. Sorry.

 

Also . . . this insurance thing is about O-A visas so if you are not 50 years old and you are coming and going on other types of visas than this insurance thing doesn't apply to you. Right?

Right... Currently I am on marriage visas, having dropped to that from annual extensions as extending my visa became unworkable due to my work travel obligations (I dont have 120 days to wait). That situation just became even more difficult as London no longer want to give me multiple entry visas, only single entry and extend (doesnt matter that I am never here that long to them !!). 

As this is all just harder and harder, and as the financials are not a bother, I had thought I would look forward to doing an OX in a couple of years, getting a 10 year visa (issued in 5 year chunks) and have long term security, at a cost of importing a bit of money, and ease of in and out worry free travel, while still avoiding too much incountry extension nonsense (OK retirement is easier than marriage). The 'cost' of doing that was an entire decade of in and out without concern. 

Now it would appear, that the 'cost' of that, still comes with uncertainty, officers stamping dates up to insurance expiry I may not need for 8 months of the annual policy, etc etc etc.. So not what I was looking forward to. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

OK,  I got an OA visa in 2016, on extensions since does this apply to me or not,  I think from what you are saying it does

I’m in exactly the same boat !!
Am not in LOS until Wed but I will make a visit to my IO to find out my exact position upon arrival, I suggest you do the same as I suspect it will not become clear shortly after 31st Oct.
Expect different reports from different IO’s to become the norm, depending on which IO you use will determine your fate !!

[weegee]

5 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Maybe, but "Non-RE" is clearly what Immigration wrote as "Visa Class" on a stamp on the first page of many new passports, and my understanding is that it means that we got a Non Immigrant visa in the aim of getting retirement extensions.

Mine is stamped the same this time....

[Mutt Daeng]

13 minutes ago, weegee said:

Mine is stamped the same this time....

Non-RE simply means you entered on a re-entry permit with an extension which was based originally on a Non Immigrant O Visa. I have the same stamp in my old passport when I entered on a Re-entry permit for my extension based on marriage. So it does mean re-entry and NOT retirement. Confirmed by others on Page 31 of this thread.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Mutt Daeng

[Jim P]

On 10/19/2019 at 7:43 AM, jacko45k said:

Do you have a small insurance card? I was given one with my policy in Thailand and always have been. A summary of the cover is on mine and such detail is clear. 

Yes I have the card

[DrJack54]

I have resisted posting this thread. Already page 30+ of nonsense. Apart from insurance required for O-A or non o extensions based on retirement etc etc..

No one has mentioned minor issue. I fly out in los every 2 weeks. My last entry to DM I had friendly io ask a silly question along with I had to show him my reentry permit. Then asked me if I work los. <deleted> my pp shows non o extensiin retirement. Anyway to the point..how would this guy have ability to check insurance if I was on O-A.

Imagine a imm control entry in future with the insurance proof.

Time to fly with APEC card.

 

[lupin]

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I have resisted posting this thread. Already page 30+ of nonsense. Apart from insurance required for O-A or non o extensions based on retirement etc etc..

No one has mentioned minor issue. I fly out in los every 2 weeks. My last entry to DM I had friendly io ask a silly question along with I had to show him my reentry permit. Then asked me if I work los. <deleted> my pp shows non o extensiin retirement. Anyway to the point..how would this guy have ability to check insurance if I was on O-A.

Imagine a imm control entry in future with the insurance proof.

Time to fly with APEC card.

 

If issued by consulate/embassy, there will be an annotation on the visa sticker itself.

If an extension, the "remarks" will likely be on you entry history when passport is scanned, but who knows at this point

 

[UKresonant]

14 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Now it would appear, that the 'cost' of that, still comes with uncertainty, officers stamping dates up to insurance expiry I may not need for 8 months of the annual policy, etc etc etc.. So not what I was looking forward to. 

Great point....!

The linkage to fixed term insurances just does not work, I'm here for 67 days this time and my trip insurance auto renewed 21 days after arrival! Would they have.only let me in for 21 days if that was compulsory, even though I had my renewal details with me. The insurance companies system was Automated, no option to generate the new cert until the.renewal date.

 

The insurance set up  is like a mortgage indemnity, to cover the lender, it does not appear to be a good design concept for the the user.

Two time milestones rather than one, as well as the activities outside Thailand you are planning for. It's just a mess!

There is speculation that they may expand the scope of this idea later. You think they would be able to arrange.a group insurance to cover them against the unpaid hospital bills more efficiently.

The future does not seem bright, unless you are of the mind to stagnate here.

[domdom]

Good morning,

Apparently Jomtien immigration told one person who came to enquire for his extension in November, that the insurance condition only applies to new OA visas issued after October 31st and subsequent extensions..

People already here with visas or extensions don t need the insurance

I go tomorrow for my 90 days and will check myself and revert

Have a nice day

[nycjoe]

The sound you are hearing is a creaking door. This is a trial balloon.


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[LivinLOS]

36 minutes ago, domdom said:

Good morning,

Apparently Jomtien immigration told one person who came to enquire for his extension in November, that the insurance condition only applies to new OA visas issued after October 31st and subsequent extensions..

People already here with visas or extensions don t need the insurance

I go tomorrow for my 90 days and will check myself and revert

Have a nice day

That would be the ideal result.. 

[Mango Bob]

46 minutes ago, domdom said:

Good morning,

Apparently Jomtien immigration told one person who came to enquire for his extension in November, that the insurance condition only applies to new OA visas issued after October 31st and subsequent extensions..

People already here with visas or extensions don t need the insurance

I go tomorrow for my 90 days and will check myself and revert

Have a nice day

I want to believe this but seeing all the trolls that has been coming here and lying I don't trust anyone anymore.  This place got me shellshocked. 

[domdom]

Yes... and it is in fact what Ubonjoe kept on saying..

Have a nice day

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, domdom said:

Good morning,

Apparently Jomtien immigration told one person who came to enquire for his extension in November, that the insurance condition only applies to new OA visas issued after October 31st and subsequent extensions..

People already here with visas or extensions don t need the insurance

I go tomorrow for my 90 days and will check myself and revert

Have a nice day

They knew last November before the amendments to orders were even published.

That's some result.

[Aforek]

7 hours ago, lupin said:

If issued by consulate/embassy, there will be an annotation on the visa sticker itself.

If an extension, the "remarks" will likely be on you entry history when passport is scanned, but who knows at this point

 

Can you send a link to the original text in Thai, please ? 

[lupin]

2 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Can you send a link to the original text in Thai, please ? 

 

1570519806090.pdf

[OJAS]

23 hours ago, CharlieH said:

My advice would be to ask "your" office what and how they interpret it.

But the poster to whom you were responding is primarily concerned about the possible implications of the insurance requirement for his return to Thailand next month following a brief trip abroad!

 

On 10/18/2019 at 6:39 PM, flexomike said:

my biggest worry is that I am leaving the country for five days in mid November, what are the chances they don't let me in because of lack of insurance, could get ugly, I already have my re-entry permit

So, unless his local immigration office happens to be equipped with suitable devices which enable officers there to read the minds of their colleagues at BKK Arrivals with 100% success and accuracy, he would probably be far better off IMHO seeking the necessary clarification by calling the Immigration Bureau hotline on 1111 or 1178.

[Sheryl]

So, unless his local immigration office happens to be equipped with suitable devices which enable officers there to read the minds of their colleagues at BKK Arrivals with 100% success and accuracy, he would probably be far better off IMHO seeking the necessary clarification by calling the Immigration Bureau hotline on 1111 or 1178.

As it sounds like he is voming on a re-entry permit thete is no need to do this.

Coming in on a re-entry does not generate a new permission to stay. He id still under the same permission to stay already granted which the Police Order makes clear is not affected.

Even if IOs at Arrivals start enforcing this on people whose OAs wrre issued prior to the 31st -- which they hopefully will not -- no implication for someone entering on a re-entry permit.

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