Retirement in Thailand… Too naive?

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

there is no principal opposition,

diminishing brain function goes hand in hand with advanced age

You may be right. However, I suggest you don't take me on at golf, Scrabble or trivia.

[Kurtf]

18 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Especially for those getting on in years some insurance really is a wise idea. Forcing people to take out packages they don't want or need at exorbitant prices though is plain wrong.

That’s really a dumb statement. Those getting on in years can’t find ANY company that will insure them against health issues for ANY price. I know because I am soon to be 80 and I have looked everywhere.

[MadMuhammad]

2 hours ago, helloagain said:

It is a waste of money cos whatever you have gone to hospital for in the past you are not covered. I can afford any hospitals. So for me a waste of time. 

I've been to hospital twice now. Influenza type B that complicated into pneumonia with a throat infection. 200000thb for 7 days in a private room, fully covered. Motorcycle accident with 30K of hospital fees, fully covered.

I have a few exclusions including spinal issues and any brain trauma/issues from pre-existing but I'm covered for everything else. 

You must be fairly well off if you can afford 2mil+ for cancer treatment and the like. good for you. I'm happy to ensure I'm covered for the unexpected

[asean]

Any western expat who thinks he is going to retire forever in Thailand is an absolute fool unless he is wealthy enough to pay for all his health and aged care requirements which will run into thousands of dollars a month.

 

Think. You all buy houses in a country which will never give you the legal right to own that house, in a country that will never allow you citizenship but instead applying for an extension of stay every year and which will never allow you cover under their national healthcare scheme. If you were honest with yourselves retirement in Thailand is only a long holiday until you get old enough to need aged care services for which you have to go back to your home country where those services are provided by the state.

 

Keep your house back home and rent it out. Do not sell it as you will absolutely be going back there for your last dying days and the aged care home you will be going to will need it for collateral. 

[shackleton]

I remember a while back when I mentioned I was covered with First  class  Medical insurance  and was treated in Bumrungrad for Prostate cancer only hospital at the time qualified  to do it

I was suddenly jumped on by the cant afford  it and to old brigade basically saying I was showing off

I have been with this insurance company over 30 years  yes it costs a few pounds  but well worth it

I have just been in hospital again and the cost was very high but the insurance company paid no problem always said  Medical insurance  is a important requirement when Retired and not getting any younger

I rest my case    

[Duck J Butters]

18 hours ago, Scot123 said:

As an ex expat who left Thailand 7 months ago because being uncertain of the future "what next" is no way to live your life especially when your getting older. People forget so quick that in 12 months there was the Embassy letter fiasco caused by Thai immigration, the fall out from that almost on a daily occurrence to basically giving 800,000baht for 6 months to a Thai bank with 400,000baht gift to the bank for life. Any one who thinks this insurance scam will not progress to all long term visa is living in cookoo land. Do you honestly think the next 12 will be smooth sailing let alone 5 or 10 years time which is what retired people need "security". ??? Sad thing is when the next immigration demand/extortion comes along the same people will try to justify it. My family and I brought millions in foreign currency into Thailand and spent it supporting the Thai economy but you can only take so much and we left. Being away from the UK for 9 years living in Thailand  has given me such appreciation of home (the UK). Just had a 350 mile RELAXING and VERY Enjoyable drive in autumn countrysid (not one did anyone try and kill us on the road, no police checkpoints every few miles looking to extort money from you) . Good luck to all who are staying in Thailand but my advice as given to me, "always have an exit plan" and "never invest more than you can afford to losd/walk away from. 

You brought millions of dollars into Thailand and you're complaining about a meager 800,000 baht and health insurance fee? In America, you can get fined up to $100k USD if you don't have health insurance. It's illegal not to have health insurance in the USA so why shouldn't it be illegal in Thailand as well? What developed country doesn't require mandatory health insurance? 

 

If you have millions of dollars, why on Earth do you not have an ELITE VISA which will cost you a measly 200,000 baht / year and zero hassles with immigration.

 

Embassy letter?? What embassy letter? I never had to get that.

Check in with immigration after traveling to another part of Thailand or leaving the country? What? I never do that.

 

Extortion at checkpoints??? What extortion are you talking about? I drive a Mercedes SL 55 AMG all over Thailand. Never once had any issues. Clearly I have money and showing off that I do with my car so you would definitely think the police would try to extort me? Nope. Never. I once got stopped by the police with 100,000 baht and a bag of coke in my wallet. Thai police officer laughed and waved me on. Thailand is the most lax country on Earth. So many perks to living in Thailand. I just don't get what everyone is complaining about. It's like I read Thai Visa and I don't live in the same country. 

 

Something is not adding up here if you are a millionaire. Sounds like another 'bot' on TV paid for by the UK government to undermine Thailand for obvious reasons. Or you're just writing nonsense for the hell of it.

 

This is life on an Elite Visa:

 

"Yeah, elite visa is the way to go. It’s worth dropping $6k on if you travel a lot. I never have any problems going in or out of Thailand and my wait time at the airport is 10 minutes. Nice to get picked up and dropped off in long wheel base S class Mercedes or 8 Series BMW and fast tracked through check-in and immigration. No x-rays, no checks, no nothing. I could bring whatever I want onto a commercial airplane and it wouldn’t be an issue since I’m never checked. Pretty funny on on my way into Bangkok from the UK last week, one of their dolly birds was waiting for me on the tarmac with a golf buggy, just after my plane landed, and whisked me straight through immigration and into lounge, fully stocked with girls and alcohol. Hehe I don’t need to tell you what happened in the lounge ???? All while I wait for my luggage to be retrieved ;-). If you’re interested in one of these visas, the elite company is just round the corner from me where I live in Sathorn and I just drop my passport in their if I need to do a 90 day report; (don't have to go to central immigration). And don't even have to drop my passport in for report if flying in / out of Thailand, and I do so frequently enough. I used to have a none immigrant B visa using my UK company and Thai company but that got a lot harder a couple of years ago and you had to get a work permit within 90 days so I ended up going for one of these elite visas."

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Duck J Butters

[LivinginKata]

50 minutes ago, murraynz said:

i agree that elderly expats ,should have some form of insurance, or sufficient funds to cover, in case of accident or ilneess..

but the real problem arises when an 'over 65yr old', makes a claim....

the insurance company dreams up a reason why he is .not covered,.

its very very risky giving insurance companies lots of money, then getting nothing in return,when help is needed..

insurance companies are always happy to take your.ever increasing. premiums, but actually paying out on a claim--is an entirely different story......beware.....

 

Could not agree more. I have insurance for life as I signed up with then BUPA Thailand (now Aetna) before I was 60. But I have to worry whether they will really pay my hospital bills for age related diseases such as heart related etc.

[Max69xl]

19 hours ago, beachproperty said:

Does an additional 400,000 baht to the already 800,000 in the bank....qualify so no need for insurance?

If you're using the >800k in the bank method, then you probably have the O Visa,and not the O-A. 

[randy723]

Everyone who come here to retired first come here you have to come on a non 0 visa and after 90 day which to a retirement visa.

[randy723]

Everyone who first comes here you have to come on a non 0 visa and after 90 day which to a retirement visa.

If you have to buy insurance buy from Cigna or other NON THAI company so the PM and the Minister of health do not get their kick back from the insurance companies

[randy723]

If you have to buy insurance buy from a NON THAI company so that the PM and the minister of health do not get their kick back from the insurance company. I bought mine from Cigna.

[Captain 776]

 Most of us over 50 have some type(s) of pre existing conditions so you end up paying thru the nose for is essence.......NO COVERAGE because they can tie almost anything to almost any pre existing condition.

i have been here 14+ years so it doesn’t apply to me BUT..........a few years back when my company medical insurance ended I looked for coverage.

 

Aetna was giving me 5 Million BHAT Major Medical for 240 USD / month which I was happy with.

They approved me and accepted first payment.

I told 100% truth about pre existing conditions.

2 weeks after accepting me, they cancelled it and said.........our underwriting dept noticed you are 4 Kg over your ideal weight and BMI Body Mass Index.

BUT........if you lose 4 Kg we will reinstate you BUT we will exempt anything that can be linked to obesity.......lololol

So if I put that 4 kg or more back on and got admitted to hospital..........damn they can link anything you can think of to obesity.

So I would be paying 240 a month for NOTHING.

SOOOOO I am just running naked......with no insurance for 3 yrs now and hope for the best.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Kurtf said:

That’s really a dumb statement. Those getting on in years can’t find ANY company that will insure them against health issues for ANY price. I know because I am soon to be 80 and I have looked everywhere.

 

It is true you cannot get a policy in Thailand.

 

You CAN get an international expat policy from Cigna Global and a few other places provided you have no major pre-existing conditions (or they might give the policy but with exclusions).

[cheshiremusicman]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not really. The super overpriced 400K / 40K government sanctioned policies are a HORRIBLE VALUE and won't go far at all for anything actually serious.

 

Cheers. 

Instead of having to take out derisory 'Health Insurance'. why not let us have a separate saving 'Bond' of 440,000 Baht held in the bank to 'Self Insure' and if we use some of this then we have to top it up again and have it checked at our 90 day reporting to retain our retirement extension of stay? This would overcome the real problem for people like myself aged 76 that will not be able to obtain Health Insurance.

[kevinmartyn]

I am 65 and have been in Thailand on a retirement visa for the past 11 years. Now to that end i did enquire about health insurence and received quotes from 7k to 22k USD per year! Wow

[Mike Teavee]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

It is true you cannot get a policy in Thailand.

 

You CAN get an international expat policy from Cigna Global and a few other places provided you have no major pre-existing conditions (or they might give the policy but with exclusions).

If they do extend the scope of this to include renewals (Be it for a Non-OA or all long stay extensions) then hopefully they'll realize the impact this will have on people too old to get health insurance & adopt a similar policy to the MM2H scheme... 

Insurance Coverage and Medical Report for MM2H

Applicants and their dependants must possess a medical insurance coverage from any insurance company that is valid in Malaysia. This may be waived for older applicants who are denied coverage because of their age. 

 

 

[Sheryl]

22 minutes ago, kevinmartyn said:

I am 65 and have been in Thailand on a retirement visa for the past 11 years. Now to that end i did enquire about health insurence and received quotes from 7k to 22k USD per year! Wow

 

You can do much better than that.. especially if you take a deductible option. See

Attachment lists options and costs.

 

That is for the TI approved companies and including the (pointless) TI requirement for OPD cover. So costs more and delivers less than anyone just wanting decent insuranec would opt for. but still noweher near the amounts you mention.

 

If you are not affected by the new Polic order and just want to be well insured, at 65 can easily get a great policy for 2-3K USD a year.

 

I'm 66. 1 million USD cover a year, very reliabel insurer, direct pay to hospitals, a little over USD 2K a year.

 

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, randy723 said:

Everyone who first comes here you have to come on a non 0 visa and after 90 day which to a retirement visa.

If you have to buy insurance buy from Cigna or other NON THAI company so the PM and the Minister of health do not get their kick back from the insurance companies

You are talking rubbish. You obtain an "O-A" retirement visa from the Thai Embassy/Consulate in your home country and that is a 1 year visa and it is only that visa that now requires the health insurance. HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT REQUIRED FOR THE 90 DAY NON-IMM "O" VISA AND ITS EXTENSION BASED ON RETIREMENT

[RedPill]

3 hours ago, lapamita said:

..and even more

" No country for young man "

Definitely, given the limited choices for under 50's ...

 

[Huckenfell]

21 hours ago, mokwit said:

This is : "No country for old men"

Best we all go to Viet Nam where we are welcomed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

If they do extend the scope of this to include renewals (Be it for a Non-OA or all long stay extensions) then hopefully they'll realize the impact this will have on people too old to get health insurance & adopt a similar policy to the MM2H scheme... 

Insurance Coverage and Medical Report for MM2H

Applicants and their dependants must possess a medical insurance coverage from any insurance company that is valid in Malaysia. This may be waived for older applicants who are denied coverage because of their age. 

 

 

 

Wow...someone outside Thailand actually exhibiting some common sense...  It's so refreshing to see!!!!  It must be because we're common sense starved here....

[Huckenfell]

21 hours ago, Scot123 said:

As an ex expat who left Thailand 7 months ago because being uncertain of the future "what next" is no way to live your life especially when your getting older. People forget so quick that in 12 months there was the Embassy letter fiasco caused by Thai immigration, the fall out from that almost on a daily occurrence to basically giving 800,000baht for 6 months to a Thai bank with 400,000baht gift to the bank for life. Any one who thinks this insurance scam will not progress to all long term visa is living in cookoo land. Do you honestly think the next 12 will be smooth sailing let alone 5 or 10 years time which is what retired people need "security". ??? Sad thing is when the next immigration demand/extortion comes along the same people will try to justify it. My family and I brought millions in foreign currency into Thailand and spent it supporting the Thai economy but you can only take so much and we left. Being away from the UK for 9 years living in Thailand  has given me such appreciation of home (the UK). Just had a 350 mile RELAXING and VERY Enjoyable drive in autumn countrysid (not one did anyone try and kill us on the road, no police checkpoints every few miles looking to extort money from you) . Good luck to all who are staying in Thailand but my advice as given to me, "always have an exit plan" and "never invest more than you can afford to losd/walk away from. 

Nothing will change in Thailand unless they get a younger business orientated government rather than the Military orientated old man attitude.

[Huckenfell]

21 hours ago, Scot123 said:

Lol! Do you honestly think that will be true in the weeks and months that follow plus there is the gray area of interpretation at different immigration offices throughout Thailand. It is the wait and see attitude that wear's people down. When the dust from this finally settles it may cost Thailand so much that its scrapped or becomes another misunderstanding but my guess from experience is it will quickly spread a cross all long term visas including renewals. What will next year bring expats? That is the real question!!!!! 

I have just come from the Koh Samui immigration office, they emphatically tell me that provided i do a border run before my O-A visa expires i will get stamped for another 12 months, it expires on 9th of December.  To test this i am doing a visa run to SATOON this coming saturday 26th. Lets see how the IO down there interprets these new insurance requirements. I will post the result on sunday, please wish me luck !

[shy coconut]

21 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

The horse obviously isn't dead yet!

Probably has good insurance!

[Huckenfell]

I am 84, quite fit except for a 'dickie' knee which is arthiritis. What chance have i got of getting any kind of insurance. Looks like i will have to move to Viet Nam. Thailand could'nt care less they have had 14 years of my pension money.

[Huckenfell]

21 hours ago, Scot123 said:

Using agents is a really big gamble, ask any diving instructor or dive master who used the agent on Kow Tow in 2004 (I think). One friend ended up in prison and banned from Thailand for something stupid like 100 years and scores had to destroy their passports and rush off to their embassies for replacements. The agent who was forging the stamps was sitting in his shop with the sign still high as if nothing had happened..... Bottom line using agents is against the law and for me the thought of spending one night in a thai prison kept me away from all grey area's... 

To my mind, although i have friends using them, it is too risky.

 

[CH1961]

22 hours ago, webfact said:

elderly expats staying in country to take out health insurance at exorbitant rates

Lower than the rates in Switzerland for the obligatory health insurance.

[Letseng]

22 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Start over again with a Non-O. 

Non-O ME rules have also changed. Not officially yet, but 800.000 Thb or equivalent in €/£ in the bank were required by Thai embassy. Before it was 200.000. Just a matter of time before insurance will be added.

[Doge]

20 hours ago, Is this real said:

Any coup would probably result in things being easier for expats.  A new power group would want to make good with the rest of the world and probably need income.

I absolutely disagree. Things only going to get worse.

 

 

I'm trying to plan a return home with wife in a few years. The way I see it I can pay for Medicare, solid insurance and buy hers thru ACA. We'll have real insurance for less than fake insurance for me alone here. It will overall be more expensive but Thailand has really lost its mojo.

[saengd]

I have until May next year before this becomes an issue for me personally, I've been on O-A extensions for eighteen years or so and have several mill. in Thai banks, I'll be 70 In February next.

 

I plan on a wait and see approach, as things stand I can get basic insurance from Pacific Cross for around 1,600 Pounds per year which is not a massively bad deal in my book but as the years tick by it will become a very bad deal. 

 

We're going to visit the Embassy next month and put the paper work in place to legalise our twenty year (unofficial) marriage, doing that gives me a route to an O visa based on marriage. But I suspect that between now and May things may change yet again. If government is prepared to throw 70+year old long term O-A visa extension holders under a bus and create huge amounts of human misery, there's no reason they will stop at O-A and soon thereafter all other visa types will go the same way. It's a waiting game with a Plan B for backup, as well as a Plan C and D (I was a boy scout when I was young, be prepared they said). ????

Edited October 22, 2019 by saengd