O/A visa and insurance experience today

[TheAppletons]

38 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

The person may have been misinformed about whether the permission to stay for 12 months was valid or not, but if it's not, it doesn't matter what the stamp in your passport says, you are on overstay.

 

E.g. Lets say you came in on a 30 day exempt & the IO accidentally stamps you in for 90 days, that doesn't mean you have permission to stay for 90 days & you will be on overstay from day 31 onward (Same if you came in on a 90 Day Non-O & got stamped in for a 1 year Non-OA, you'd be on overstay from day 91 onward) irrespective of what the stamp says.

 

It's your/our responsibility to check the permission to stay date & if you/we have any queries (as the OP had), it's your/our responsibility to follow it up with Immigration, ignorance (not meant as an offence, I can't think of a better word to use) is no defense.

 

  The examples you cited are valid examples.  However, in the case that we are discussing, a member was stamped in for one year on a current and valid O-A visa.  That's what's supposed to happen so it isn't a "mistake".

 

  Whether the IO should have asked for insurance or not has been debated to death in this thread but he was not "accidentally" stamped in for a year on a visa that - by definition - grants one year permissions to stay upon entry.

 

  My opinion, obviously, and yours differs.  That's why we have discussion forums.

 

  

Edited November 8, 2019 by TheAppletons

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Skallywag said:

How I interpret this is that a Non-Imm O-A visa is not intended for more than one year, yet some on here have said they have renewed or had O-A visas since 2013? 

 

Seems immigration is stating if you "retire" in Thailand for more than one year, then you must change O-A to Non-Imm O or another long term visa (Elite) before year is out.  

 

So requiring health insurance makes sense that the Kingdom does not want people who are only passing through to rack up hospital bills as they have no plan for permanent stay and will soon be out of country. 

Makes more sense to require all tourists have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom.

 

 

No, that is not what it is saying.

 

One year extensions of stay for purpose of retirement can be obtained on the basis of original entry on w=either an O or OA visa, and in both cases permission will be given for only 1 year. It is always only 1 year at a time.

 

The requirement is NOT for "travel; insurance" and in most cases a travel insurance policy will not suffice.

 

 

[Lovethailandelite]

21 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Re=read his post. The IO in front of him who stamped his passport was not the IO who told him he would be given 30 days.

 

Different IO stamped him in.

I have no need to re-read anything to see what has happened. How do you 'Know' what was actually entered in to the Immigration database after being held up for 2 hours and finally agreeing to be stamped in for 30 days but received a stamp for 12 months?  I certainly don't need advice from you or the other so called 'Experts' that have been peddling their advice here over the last couple of weeks. Your misinformation has been astounding.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[TheAppletons]

4 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I have no need to re-read anything to see what has happened. How do you 'Know' what was actually entered in to the Immigration database after being held up for 2 hours and finally agreeing to be stamped in for 30 days but received a stamp for 12 months?  I certainly don't need advice from you or the other so called 'Experts' that have been peddling their advice here over the last couple of weeks. Your misinformation has been astounding.

  How does anyone know on any entry whether what's in the computer database matches what's stamped in your passport?  Unless you have access to that database, you wouldn't.  Using that argument, every single person who enters the country is at risk of overstay unless he/she personally verifies what is in the database.  Difficult to buy into that.

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I have no need to re-read anything to see what has happened. How do you 'Know' what was actually entered in to the Immigration database after being held up for 2 hours and finally agreeing to be stamped in for 30 days but received a stamp for 12 months?  I certainly don't need advice from you or the other so called 'Experts' that have been peddling their advice here over the last couple of weeks. Your misinformation has been astounding.

 

A little civility, please.

 

I am not in any way an "expert" on visa matters and have never claimed anything of that sort. I am simply a fellow retiree posting based on my experience living here as a retiree for over 15 years and that of others I know or have read reports of, trying to be helpful, same as you and others are.

 

I do not think any of us have correctly predicted everything that has unfolded on this issue.

[Momofarang]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

A little civility, please.

 

I am not in any way an "expert" on visa matters and have never claimed anything of that sort. I am simply a fellow retiree posting based on my experience living here as a retiree for over 15 years and that of others I know or have read reports of, trying to be helpful, same as you and others are.

 

I do not think any of us have correctly predicted everything that has unfolded on this issue.

Indeed, but it would be nice to have to have an "expert" setting up a closed thread giving updates on the current understanding for all situations i.e. entry with O/A prior or post 31/10, o/a retirement extension, o/a marriage extension etc..

 

Actually it could make sense to open a second thread where members could post their experience(s). Only Original posts with some proof pic should allowed, and only interactions between OPs and moderators.

 

Hope I won't get censored for commenting on moderation, with some moderation though.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Momofarang

[UncleFesterNightmare]

My OA which I entered here 4 years ago is exempt from this requirement?  I have now 2 retirement extensions.

[Skallywag]

4 hours ago, saengd said:

I've extended my visa fifteen times, that's 15 opportunities for IO's and visa agents to suggest hey, saengd, you really should change your O-A for a whatever visa, because....!

Yes, there has never been a reason until now,  and all thai nationals /IO's want you to buy their health insurance. 

You are not going to get suggestions about a Visa change UNTIL the rules change.

[Martyp]

4 minutes ago, UncleFesterNightmare said:

My OA which I entered here 4 years ago is exempt from this requirement?  I have now 2 retirement extensions.

I am the same as you. I entered on an OA and I am on my 2nd extension. Based on the last couple of days I am assuming that I (we) will have to have insurance to get our next extension. I have a multiple re-entry permit until Nov 2020 but I'm not sure if I will have trouble at the airport. I do not have travel plans in the next couple of months. I do have Pacific Cross insurance expiring Jan 1 and on renewal next month I will make sure I get a certificate.

[UncleFesterNightmare]

5 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I am the same as you. I entered on an OA and I am on my 2nd extension. Based on the last couple of days I am assuming that I (we) will have to have insurance to get our next extension. I have a multiple re-entry permit until Nov 2020 but I'm not sure if I will have trouble at the airport. I do not have travel plans in the next couple of months. I do have Pacific Cross insurance expiring Jan 1 and on renewal next month I will make sure I get a certificate.

My OA expired 3 years ago.  That date is well before the 31st of last month.  Why do I have to show anything?

[kingofthemountain]

11 minutes ago, UncleFesterNightmare said:

My OA which I entered here 4 years ago is exempt from this requirement?  I have now 2 retirement extensions.

You will be probably asked to have an insurance for your next

retirment extension renewal but it's still uncertain at the moment.

What immigration office are you dealing with? At waht date is your next renewal?

 

[The Man Who Sold the World]

35 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I am simply a fellow retiree posting based on my experience living here as a retiree for over 15 years and that of others I know or have read reports of, trying to be helpful, same as you and others are.

Sheryl, speaking for myself and many others, your comments and efforts on our behalf are greatly appreciated. Please continue. 

[UncleFesterNightmare]

Just now, kingofthemountain said:

You will be probably asked to have an insurance for your next

retirment extension renewal but it's still uncertain at the moment.

What immigration office are you dealing with? At waht date is your next renewal?

 

Bangkok.  Not until July.

[kingofthemountain]

1 minute ago, UncleFesterNightmare said:

My OA expired 3 years ago.  That date is well before the 31st of last month.  Why do I have to show anything?

It's seems most of the immigration offices interpret the text like this

the 31 october is the date for the new requirment start, doesn't matter

at what date you have had your OA visa obtained

[kingofthemountain]

5 minutes ago, UncleFesterNightmare said:

Bangkok.  Not until July.

Then you have time in front of you

stay in touch here and see how the things go with the differents reports

from the BM.

the immigration could change his view in the next months

(But i am not very optimist on this)

You can also start to think about a plan B

with a change for a 0 visa, not impacted at the moment

Edited November 8, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[Lacessit]

I have a non-O visa granted in 2014, and a non-RE thereafter, whatever non-RE means as it seems to be a contradiction in terms. I assume RE means Retirement Extension.

What is the difference between the non-O and non-OA visa? How does that affect the insurance requirement?

[Andrew Dwyer]

3 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

It's seems most of the immigration offices interpret the text like this

the 31 october is the date for the new requirment start, doesn't matter

at what date you have had your OA visa obtained

Yes, and I would just like to add:

 

This is the way I see it :

 

Entering Thailand on a valid Non imm OA , irrespective of issue date, without insurance will get you a 30 day exempt ( if applicable to your nationality ) to buy insurance, leave and return to kickstart your OA.

 

Entering Thailand with an expired OA and with a re-entry permit ( no insurance ) should gain you normal entry ( see below )

 

Renewing retirement extension of an expired OA at your local immigration office will require insurance.

[Martyp]

3 minutes ago, UncleFesterNightmare said:

My OA expired 3 years ago.  That date is well before the 31st of last month.  Why do I have to show anything?

Thai visa forum members had wildly divergent views on how the insurance requirement would be enforced. There have been a small number of direct reports, since Oct 31st, of people being told at the Bangkok airport that they need insurance even though they have OA visas issued prior to October 31st. It would appear from initial experience that the insurance requirement is being applied to anyone who has entered on an OA visa no matter how far in the past. I would like to see more reports particularly from people who have or are applying for extensions. It would be prudent to at least investigate the insurance options. I have time to watch and wait but for those people traveling now it is troublesome times.

[Martyp]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Entering Thailand with an expired OA and with a re-entry permit ( no insurance ) should gain you normal entry ( see below )

There are two versions of this. There are those on the second year of their OA visa. Their visa has expired but theY have a 1 year permission to stay and a re-entry permit for that extra year of stay. They are still living without the requirement to have money/income in a Thai bank. Then there are those who originally entered on an OA visa, however many years ago, are on a 1 year extension of stay and have a re-entry permit.

[sometimewoodworker]

27 minutes ago, Martyp said:

There are two versions of this. There are those on the second year of their OA visa. Their visa has expired but theY have a 1 year permission to stay and a re-entry permit for that extra year of stay. They are still living without the requirement to have money/income in a Thai bank. Then there are those who originally entered on an OA visa, however many years ago, are on a 1 year extension of stay and have a re-entry permit.

You are correct, however I don’t think that border IOs are making any distinction between them.

Permission to stay with reentry or extension of permission to stay with reentry seem to be treated exactly the same, though it’s early days and there could be a change.

Edited November 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Martyp]

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are correct, however I don’t think that border IOs are making any distinction between them.

Permission to stay with reentry or extension of permission to stay with reentry seem to be treated exactly the same, though it’s early days and ther could be a change.

Yes. I am on an extension with a multiple re-entry permit and I am waiting for reports from those people.

[sometimewoodworker]

37 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

What is the difference between the non-O and non-OA visa? How does that affect the insurance requirement?

At the moment for an extension based on retirement.

Initially Non-O; no insurance needed

Initially Non-OA; insurance required

 

of course different offices may have different views.

Edited November 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Andrew Dwyer]

20 minutes ago, Martyp said:

There are two versions of this. There are those on the second year of their OA visa. Their visa has expired but theY have a 1 year permission to stay and a re-entry permit for that extra year of stay. They are still living without the requirement to have money/income in a Thai bank. Then there are those who originally entered on an OA visa, however many years ago, are on a 1 year extension of stay and have a re-entry permit.

Yes, but the actual basis of the “ permission to stay “ is the same, this “ permission to stay “ is only extended at the end of the second year.

I agree, financial requirements differentiate the two versions but ( IMO ) the IO at entry would still only see someone entering on an expired OA with a re-entry permit.

 

I didn’t want to complicate my earlier post with this small difference as I felt it was insignificant and my aim was to sum it up simply.

 

Unfortunately ☹️

[sometimewoodworker]

15 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Yes. I am on an extension with a multiple re-entry permit and I am waiting for reports from those people.

Your post 

 

Quote

It would appear from initial experience that the insurance requirement is being applied to anyone who has entered on an OA visa no matter how far in the past.

As far as I have seen is not correct.

 

There are reports of people who have a current Non-OA (whenever issued) being required to have insurance.

 

So far I have not seen a report of anyone on an extension of stay or permission to stay issued before 31 October 2019 entering with a reentry permit being required to have insurance as you imply.

 

If I have missed a report (easy to do) please reference it.

Edited November 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

So what do people advise on this?

Hi Brianj1964,

Thanks for posting a picture of the actual stamp in your passport.

 

However, before people that are just now opening this thread, start cheering because it 'proves' than you can get stamped in for a full year on a Non Imm OA after Oct 31, they should know the full context which you provided in your original post.

On your arrival on 5 Nov in Suvarnabhumi you were not stamped in immediately by IO, but were taken into an office where they explained that you needed health-insurance to be allowed in for a full year.  And they offered you the option to either sign in on the spot on one of the thai-approved HI schemes, or to be stamped in Visa exempt for 30 days, so that you can sort it out later at a provincial IO.

You choose the latter (I would have done the same, so that there is at least some time to consider the options and make an informed choice on the insurance when choosing for that route).

But then - to your surprise - when going back to the border-entry booth you were stamped in for a full year.

Obviously that's a mistake by the IO stamping you in, because:

- you were just explained and had chosen for the 30-day exempt option,

- several reports of OA holders arriving at Suvarnabhumi, got the same treatment as you but were stamped in 30 days when they did not sign-in on the spot on a thai-approved health-insurance policy.

 

In your case I would also have initially been quite happy with their mistake, as that seems to allow me to stay in Thailand for the full year without the health-insurance.

BUT unfortunately, thai immigration have covered themselves in when they make a mistake.  Because it is up to the person that is stamped in to check whether the permission to stay date is indeed correct.  And if not they should contact immigration to have it corrected.

Failing to do so, doesn't mean you are excused.  So in your case, you would be on overstay if you stayed longer than the 30 days you were supposed to have been getting.  And claiming ignorance of that rule, by pointing to the 1 year stamp when exiting on the post Oct 31 stamped in OA , might not work.

If you are a gambling man, you could of course take the risk and hope they overlook it when exiting Thailand.

 

From the later posts on this thread after you reported your case, it will by now be clear for you that it is probably best to have the situation cleared out by visiting a provincial IO.

You should do that before Dec 5 (within the 30 days that you actually should have got).

But I suggest that you not go NOW but wait 2 weeks.

By then most of the confusion surrounding the OA health-insurance and how it is handled will have been clarified, and the process how to handle cases like yours will have crystalized out.  It also allows you to check the various health-insurance options and choose one which actually fits your situation.  

Note: Alternatively you could also choose to 'dump' the OA Visa, and go for a Non Imm O or another type Visa that suits you better and doesn't require thai-approved health-insurance. 

 

[lopburi3]

Below is gist of message just sent to those signed up for US Embassy announcements.

 

 

Quote

 

New Health Insurance Requirement for Long-Stay Visa Applicants (November 8, 2019)

Location:  Thailand

Event:  As of October 31, 2019, Thailand requires all long-stay (O-A and O-X) visa applicants to carry health insurance.  Per Royal Thai Police Order Number 548/2562 dated September 27, 2019, foreign nationals who have been granted a nonimmigrant O-A or O-X visa must purchase health insurance which covers their length of stay in the Kingdom of Thailand.  The coverage must be no less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for inpatient care and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient services. 

U.S. citizens can present proof of existing insurance (U.S.-based or otherwise) that covers them in Thailand or they can purchase an insurance policy via the Thai General Insurance Association’s website at http://longstay.tgia.org. 

U.S. citizens will need to download the Overseas Insurance Certificate and have it completed, signed, and stamped by their insurance company if using a non-Thai insurance policy to qualify.

Actions to Take:

·        Visit the Royal Thai Embassy website to review visa requirements.

·        Learn more about Thai health insurance policy options.

·        Learn more about Insurance Providers for Overseas Coverage.

 

U.S. Embassy Bangkok, Thailand

 

 

[Martyp]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Your post 

 

As far as I have seen is not correct.

 

There are reports of people who have a current Non-OA (whenever issued) being required to have insurance.

 

So far I have not seen a report of anyone on an extension of stay or permission to stay issued before 31 October 2019 entering with a reentry permit being required to have insurance as you imply.

 

If I have missed a report (easy to do) please reference it.

I agree. I am waiting for those direct reports too. However, extrapolating from the BKK airport reports, the regulation went into effect Oct 31 and seems to apply to OA's obtained before Oct 31. Whether it applies to OA's obtained more than 2 years ago I am waiting to hear about though I am not optimistic these days. I was optimistic a couple of weeks ago.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, UncleFesterNightmare said:

Bangkok.  Not until July.

 

the last report I have seen posted on CW Imm was by member Pib and said he was told all extensions that came in on an OA originally, no matter how long ago, will need insurance.  That contradicts what some others were told earlier so worth rechecking with them closer to the date, as well as following developments on this forum as the situation seems quite fluid.

 

But also worth making some contingency plans in case it is required.

 

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Below is gist of message just sent to those signed up for US Embassy announcements.

 

 

 

Wow. The embassy just heard about this? Congratulations to them. I need to make sure I get on their contact list to get timely announcements. Next year they can announce that the insurance requirements also apply to those who obtained an OA before Oct 31.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, Martyp said:

I agree. I am waiting for those direct reports too. However, extrapolating from the BKK airport reports, the regulation went into effect Oct 31 and seems to apply to OA's obtained before Oct 31. Whether it applies to OA's obtained more than 2 years ago I am waiting to hear about though I am not optimistic these days. I was optimistic a couple of weeks ago.

The Non-OA is expired, if it expired 1 day ago, 1 year ago or 10 years ago it has still expired.
 

There is no reason to believe that there is going to be any different treatment.