Mandatory Insurance: will it work?

[pookondee]

On one hand, the Thai government originally might have had the best of intentions in mind with the idea.
Help out expats while in Thailand and solve the supposed crisis of foriegners not paying bills


However, it seems they have handed complete control over to the insurance companies on how to implement it.
At a glance, the model they have come up with seems to be destined for failure on both accounts.

It seems they have opted for a very small maximum cover of 400k baht for one reason:
So the company can avoid having to pay out any high claims.

The other equally questionable part is the 40,000 outpatient thing.
Most will probably never fully use this, and i have my suspicions, it is simply there to lift the price of the premium up..

In effect, what they will be doing is raking in maximum baht while only risking 400k payout per patient.
And of course they will obviously have many clauses they can use to knock-back any possible claims.

So, if your up the duff for 1-5 million, you are still paying it all yourself...or doing a runner.

The whopping 400k the insurance gives you won't be much good in that case.

 

So how will this help hospitals?

For most of us, if disaster strikes we can easily afford a 40,000 baht bill.
We dont need to be throwing away 40-50k per year to be insured for an amount we can already afford.

I thought the whole point of insurance was to be covered for a huge amount you cannot pay?

Really i cant see ANY point to this insurance at all.

 

People will have no choice to default bills of over 1million if they havent got the dime to pay...

cant get blood out of a stone, right?

Anyway, i guess its possible im looking at this the wrong way.

 

So i ask you:

 

will it work for you?

 

will it work at all?

 

Or has the idea basically been hijacked and turned into a huge scam by the insurance companies?

Edited November 28, 2019 by pookondee

[petermik]

It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front

[Chazar]

9 minutes ago, petermik said:

It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front

I went to Hua  Hin hospital recently and was  asked to pay ONLY after they had done the work,  no mention of prepayment.

[pookondee]

31 minutes ago, Chazar said:

I went to Hua  Hin hospital recently and was  asked to pay ONLY after they had done the work,  no mention of prepayment.

To be fair i reckon there would be a bit of "sizing up" involved as well.

Turn up there looking like something a soi dog dragged out of a klong and it might be a different story ?

 

Anyways, i thought expats at HuaHin had a slightly better reputation than other certain places?

 

Certainly not the demographic that has a high risk of doing a runner on a bill anyway.

 

 

[tlandtday]

This is a joke.  This "crisis" has been created to not only scapegoat and persist Thai xenophobia but to open the door for someone in the insurance business to make a fortune off foreigners.  Like Rahm Emmanuel liked to say with Obama "never waste a good crisis".

[Chazar]

14 minutes ago, pookondee said:

Turn up there looking like something a soi dog dragged out of a klong

Thats EXACTLY  how I turned up, i  kid you  not.

[jollyhangmon]

1 hour ago, pookondee said:

will it work for you?

 

... nope, as far as I'm concerned they can get their mothers to buy into that scam!

[Sheryl]

For most people it is no 40-50 K.  Premiums are in the  6 figures by the time you are 70 and shoot upward from there. The highest I have seen is over 400,000 baht for age 85. (yes - premium 400k for 400/40 in cover. Completely unbeleivable).

 

Definitely will not work. The policies are very badly designed and the companies for the most part clueless and inept with no real understanding of health insurance.  The law is absurdly written; people with low cover policies that exclude virtually every possible disease are accepted and people with solid high cover, no exclusion policies are not. Completely wrong way to go about it.

 

And then there is the huge question of what people who cannot get this "insurance" will end up doing. It is not a small number, between age and pre-existing conditions.  I suppose those that leave will be viewed as a "success" but many will manage to stay one way or the other...different visa type, agent etc. 

 

It will certainly deter new people  from retiring here and I suppose from Imm and MoPH standpoint that is a a "win" of sorts. but that trend was already well underway.

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, pookondee said:

Or has the idea basically been hijacked and turned into a huge scam by the insurance companies?

Yep

you get it 

[Nobody55]

I have heard of some cases where the insurance has not paid for the medical expenses, in which case what happens?

[sirineou]

Ridiculous. 

  Insurance is suppose to provide certainty, the whole thing is riddled with uncertainty. 

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, pookondee said:

It seems they have opted for a very small maximum cover of 400k baht for one reason:
So the company can avoid having to pay out any high claims.
The other equally questionable part is the 40,000 outpatient thing.

Both amounts set by the Thai government, nothing to do with the insurance companies.

Designed as a scam by the government right from the start to line the pockets of their pals owning insurance companies.

[pookondee]

2 hours ago, Chazar said:

Thats EXACTLY  how I turned up, i  kid you  not.

ha. I guess you would be excused looking a little rough if run over by a took-took.

But Im talking about if they size you up as a "kee-nok" that lives on Mama noodles in a 3000baht fan room and cant pay the bill.

 

Ive actually found Thais to be eerily accurate in how they assess some farangs, even after not knowing them very long.

Im sure you dont fit in the keenok class!

[pookondee]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

For most people it is no 40-50 K.  Premiums are in the  6 figures by the time you are 70 and shoot upward from there. The highest I have seen is over 400,000 baht for age 85. (yes - premium 400k for 400/40 in cover. Completely unbeleivable).

 

Definitely will not work. The policies are very badly designed and the companies for the most part clueless and inept with no real understanding of health insurance.  The law is absurdly written; people with low cover policies that exclude virtually every possible disease are accepted and people with solid high cover, no exclusion policies are not. Completely wrong way to go about it.

 

And then there is the huge question of what people who cannot get this "insurance" will end up doing. It is not a small number, between age and pre-existing conditions.  I suppose those that leave will be viewed as a "success" but many will manage to stay one way or the other...different visa type, agent etc. 

 

It will certainly deter new people  from retiring here and I suppose from Imm and MoPH standpoint that is a a "win" of sorts. but that trend was already well underway.

 

 

Thanks for posting that.

The concept seems even more ridiculous each time posters who are in the know, (Sheryl being number 1)

 point out the facts and obvious flaws.

 

They cant seriously expect a guy to pay a 400k premium per annum for cover of 400k ??

 

I think if they persist with this nonsense, they will have to set up some sort of 'Insurance tribunal' to look at abnormal cases like that as they come up.

 

Then do case by case assessments and  make adjustments that work for each particular case.

 

If they just wipe their hands of it, and old guys are forced to leave wives, homes and families after XX years being here..

well that must nearly be enchroaching on human rights issues, surely?

 

[Puchaiyank]

Once one comes to terms with being a member of the easily exploited club, then it comes as no big surprise that one must purchase mandatory worthless insurance in order to remain in paradise...????

[pookondee]

1 hour ago, Puchaiyank said:

Once one comes to terms with being a member of the easily exploited club, then it comes as no big surprise that one must purchase mandatory worthless insurance in order to remain in paradise...????

Never believed in insurance and have managed to avoid life's larger scams.

 

So if its truly heading that way then im surely re-thinking my idea of what is Paradise! 

 

There must come a stage where paradise is not worth all of this.

and being home, where you can actually feel like you belong..

not get chucked out at some ××××heads small minded whim...

Yes, its starting to look very good.

[JimHuaHin]

I am 64 years young and have IMG international health insurance (which I have had for 6 years, the time I have been in Thailand), which covers all bar 10 expensive countries in the world.

 

My current premium is just over US$2,800 pa, and I have up to US$5 million life-time coverage.  I have had no problems in Thailand claiming with this policy; no problems at hospitals, no problems with IMG.

 

I just came back from Hua Hin Immigration - I asked whether I can use my IMG policy - NO!!!  You have to use one of the companies listed at http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa .

 

My policy has no age limit or conditions for renewal, unlike many of the companies listed at the above web site.  I also note that my current policy is much cheaper than most similar policies listed with companies at the above web site.

 

As several TV members have noted, the new policy creates more problems than it solves; and certainly creating a lot of stress amongst expats living in Thailand.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 11/28/2019 at 1:14 PM, pookondee said:

On one hand, the Thai government originally might have had the best of intentions in mind with the idea.
Help out expats while in Thailand and solve the supposed crisis of foriegners not paying bills


However, it seems they have handed complete control over to the insurance companies on how to implement it.
At a glance, the model they have come up with seems to be destined for failure on both accounts.

The implementation is bad.  They should require insurance but it should just be under the same insurance program that Thais have (and mandatory - collected in advance for the year at time of renewal or issue/90 day report) -- just at a higher rate (i.e. unsubsidized public coverage adjusted yearly based on deficit/surplus of previous year).  If you want to top it up with private insurance coverage, that would be an additional option. 

[pennine]

And you don't even mention those who are over 75 and cannot get the insuance anyway.

 

[krabi local]

I have happily been with BUPA (now Aetna) for several years and my hospital cover is a lot more than the basic 400,000 required.

 

I recently enquired about adding the 40,000 of OPD to my current policy.

Apparently I will have to pay nearly an extra 20,000 premium for the cover.

 

<deleted> ?  That is 50% of the total cover just for the premium.

In fairness they have offered me a different policy that covers the basic requirements and that is still 10,000 more than my current policy.

Sorry Aetna I will not be renewing or recommending you again.

[Sheryl]

On 11/28/2019 at 3:10 PM, Nobody55 said:

I have heard of some cases where the insurance has not paid for the medical expenses, in which case what happens?

You are stuck with the bill.

 

Though you can appeal/complain to the OIC and I'd probably try that first if you think the company is in the wrong i.e. it was not for a clearly excluded condition..

[wwest5829]

What I like is, insisting that I buy the health insurance that will exclude my biggest risk and thus will not pay the bill. So, you figure I will buy this extortion rather than seeking alternatives, Thailand?

[DUNROAMIN]

On 11/28/2019 at 1:21 PM, petermik said:

It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front

Correct, the whole insurance thing is a scam by the government and the Thai elite community, who run this place and not to mention own most of the Health Insurance companies. This place is still strong running on corruption. 

[TigerandDog]

Have to say I agree with the whole thing being a scam to line the pockets of the insurance companies. I give you this example, I had cartilage removed from both knees in 1989, yet the health insurance company I am with ( signed up earlier this year ) is treating this as a pre-existing condition and has excluded any kind of treatment that might involve my knees unless it is broken or fractured bones. Pre-existing conditions are ONLY supposed to be conditions that you have had treated in the 3 - 5 years preceding signing up. How can they justify something that occurred 30 years ago as being a pre-existing condition?  Also be aware that some of the approved Thai companies have affordable plans that meet the requirements, but those plans were not submitted for approval. I wonder why that is?

Edited November 29, 2019 by TigerandDog
correction

[NoshowJones]

"Really i cant see ANY point to this insurance at all" It is there solely to make money for insurance companies, and there are others with their fingers in the pie.

We are the westerners, the walking ATMs, the easiest targets for the Thai authorities.

[Expattaff1308]

35 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Correct, the whole insurance thing is a scam by the government and the Thai elite community, who run this place and not to mention own most of the Health Insurance companies. This place is still strong running on corruption. 

I can get the minimum cover required for half the premium asked for by the chosen few...it's just a rip off.

Now Phuket hospitals has confirmed what other hospitals have said and what we have all been saying Tourists are the those who leave without payment. along with workers from adjoining Asean countries.

All said and done where goes a retired expat run to other than his Thai home. But the authorities have decided it is the Expat who has to foot the bill via exceptionally high premiums from the chosen Insurance companies.

I appreciate the OA situation in the regard you can stay here for 2 yrs without showing funds, but after that any stay requires showing funds of some kind.

We jump through the financial hoops and they just keep adding more, retirees just dont need this added stress!!

Can be solved simply by making sure tourists & foreign workers purchase health/ Accident insurance and grandfathering those on OAs prior to Oct 2019

Edited November 29, 2019 by Expattaff1308

[Ireland32]

On 11/28/2019 at 1:21 PM, petermik said:

It is just another scam to rip off tourists/expats here nothing more....there is not a hospital here that will treat a tourist unless payment is guaranteed up front

ITS baloney it’s a rip off , when I go to A bkK Hospital I’m escorted to cashier , it’s a scam just charge everybody 100b every entry 

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, pookondee said:

Thanks for posting that.

The concept seems even more ridiculous each time posters who are in the know, (Sheryl being number 1)

 point out the facts and obvious flaws.

 

They cant seriously expect a guy to pay a 400k premium per annum for cover of 400k ??

 

I think if they persist with this nonsense, they will have to set up some sort of 'Insurance tribunal' to look at abnormal cases like that as they come up.

 

Then do case by case assessments and  make adjustments that work for each particular case.

 

If they just wipe their hands of it, and old guys are forced to leave wives, homes and families after XX years being here..

well that must nearly be enchroaching on human rights issues, surely?

 

What regard for human rights does Thailand have anyway?

[Expattaff1308]

When Insurance was first raised they said there would be a provision (finance) for those who was unable to get insurance whether thro cost, pre conditions or age, that seems to have been lost as Sheryl says from somewhere between the planning to the implementation of this new rule.

[DJ54]

My friend is in the process of extending Non-OA. From what I was told health check was iffy... BUT they can help with a policy 75,000 baht a year.... wonder if you get free Kant saY jelly