Non O-A Extension my experience

[Peter Denis]

37 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Go from an OA extension to an O visa then extension based on retirement it's not a walk in the park for a lot of us.

If you apply outside of Thailand a proof of retirement by your consulate is required, and a lot of us between 50 and 65 years old are not officially retired yet from ours countries.

If you apply inside Thailand, the proof of the 800 000 bahts coming from abroad is required.

Most of us have already the 800 000 in a Thai bank and since long time, so it's difficult to prove the money come from abroad.

At the moment i am still not sure i will be able to have a solution at these 2 problems

for my next renewal extension, so it could be my last year here in Thailand as i am reluctant to use an agent

(Anyway i am not even sure the use of an agent can help if you don't have the health insurance)

Yes, I agree that depending on your circumstances it's not a walk through the park.

Even though there are several options to convert from an extension based on an OA Visa - retirement to an O Visa retirement, some of the requirements on the different conversion road possibilities might prove to be insurmountable obstacles.

So indeed, when considering to apply for a Non Imm O at an embassy/consulate OUTSIDE Thailand, you would need to check out the specific requirements as they are different in your home-country and in neighboring countries (e.g. in Laos the requirements are even different when you apply in Vientiane or in Savannakhet).

When applying INSIDE Thailand, I thought it was not necessary to prove the origin of the 800K when it was seasoned in your bank-account already.  And in case that you DO need to provide proof that the 800K in your thai bank-account came from abroad, you could of course transfer your present funds abroad (as you won't need them anymore for your OA extension), and then re-transfer from abroad to a new account.  Crazy and waste of time/energy/money to do so, but if that's the only way to prove the funds came from abroad...

If you are not over 75, you could also opt for the cheapest possible thai-approved insurance policy.  And I presume that in the course of coming year when the health-insurance requirement will hit all of those on an extension based on an OA - retirement Visa, that more attractive insurance options will become available to cater for that category.  

Edited December 5, 2019 by Peter Denis

[kingofthemountain]

23 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Money doesnt need to come from abroad when seasoned and local consuls dont need 'proof' of retirement other than rocking up with money in the bank.. 

Both non issues. 

I have read all the topics here on this specific issue

and i have seen from the most of them a different version from your.

 

[sfokevin]

55 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I dare say I don't see the insurance debagle spreading into other extensions, i.e. unless they want us all out, regardless the maths tells me as much as they might want to, it ain't going to happen.

Minutes from recent Ministry meeting...

 

[kingofthemountain]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Crazy and waste of time/energy/money to do so, but if that's the only way to prove the funds came from abroad..

Yes you are right

it's because i am still irresolute to do it

even if i succeed this time, i wonder what should be the next jump to do

until i will be unable to jump. At 55 i am still pretty young and healthy

but in 5 or 10 years? I was planning to stay in Thailand untill the end

but now i am not sure at all of this, too much uncertainty.

 

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Minutes from recent Ministry meeting..

That is from the cabinet resolution done in April. Not really new all.

They came up with a plan to charge a fee on entry to the country but is was abandoned.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Yes you are right

it's because i am still irresolute to do it

even if i succeed this time, i wonder what should be the next jump to do

until i will be unable to jump. At 55 i am still pretty young and healthy

but in 5 or 10 years? I was planning to stay in Thailand untill the end

but now i am not sure at all of this, too much uncertainty.

Well stated!

And many long-term stayers in Thailand are quite rightly worried now what the future might have in store.

I am not against insurance, far from that as I am well-covered.  But the way the need-for-insurance idea was completely twisted into something unrecognizable from the original intent and then implemented in a draconian and amateurish way, does not inspire confidence.

[david555]

32 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, I agree that depending on your circumstances it's not a walk through the park.

Even though there are several options to convert from an extension based on an OA Visa - retirement to an O Visa retirement, some of the requirements on the different conversion road possibilities might prove to be insurmountable obstacles.

So indeed, when considering to apply for a Non Imm O at an embassy/consulate OUTSIDE Thailand, you would need to check out the specific requirements as they are different in your home-country and in neighboring countries (e.g. in Laos the requirements are even different when you apply in Vientiane or in Savannakhet).

When applying INSIDE Thailand, I thought it was not necessary to prove the origin of the 800K when it was seasoned in your bank-account already.  And in case that you DO need to provide proof that the 800K in your thai bank-account came from abroad, you could of course transfer your present funds abroad (as you won't need them anymore for your OA extension), and then re-transfer from abroad to a new account.  Crazy and waste of time/energy/money to do so, but if that's the only way to prove the funds came from abroad...

If you are not over 75, you could also opt for the cheapest possible thai-approved insurance policy.  And I presume that in the course of coming year when the health-insurance requirement will hit all of those on an extension based on an OA - retirement Visa, that more attractive insurance options will become available to cater for that category.  

Hi, your story could become mine ....in future as I am  now on "O" for years , enough money on bank years already to buy the condo of choice if that would appear  ,even having an Axa insurance from home country but of course not one who fills the right scammers pockets …,even they signed the Gov. certificate  if they would , so fully prepared testing the hopeless case.

Only advantage is the o is not yet under that system and I am O.K. until September ending ,... but I expect by the  hammer falling on non "o" too , or shall I named the axe  5555 , so 1 year they can have their scam insurance pocket filling money , but no longer , it shall me my pleasure in preparation time by then wit draw my money from Thai bank telling them the reason while thanking them anyway for their good service Kbank ) so they know who to blame (or not )

 

O.P. I can understand in full your decision … enough is enough , and all o-a who change to like my non O …. know it is just temporary to find yourself by probably next year  in same situation as now you are in together  with us non o's

O.K. guy's  the countdown clock is ticking , especially if you see how they let O.P. jumping hoops , even they know the insurance is agreed …… just not a grain of understanding or lenience …..say's it all how this country became 

Edited December 5, 2019 by david555

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, TaoNow said:

I'm surprised there isn't more comment on this trip report.

 

OP went to Immo CW, which I view to be the standard bearer for how the regs are applied.

 

If OP's experience is representative, it would appear that the health insurance requirement is being applied retro-actively to anyone who came in on an O-A visa and then has extended permission to stay ever since.

 

To me, that would set a remarkable precedent that I don't think we've seen before, at least not at Chaeng Wattana Immigration.

Agreed. My understanding from the numerous official announcements which have been made and their analysis by lawyers etc that existing O-A visa holders with a record of retirement extensions in their passports would not be required to have the mandatory health insurance.

 

Clearly, there is confusion among immigration officials on this issue, with various immigration offices applying their own particular interpretation of new rules which long after being announced remain as clear as mud.

 

Nobody should have to suffer the humiliation and trauma endured by the original poster who visited the CW immigration office. Reading of his plight is going to spread alarm and despondency among many retirees with O-A stamps in their passport - particularly those who are simply too old and infirm to get the level of insurance demanded.

 

Whatever the attitude of the Thai Immigration heirarchy to foreign retirees, they should at least consider the impact on those Thai families who, as a result of the new regulations, could suddenly find themselveds robbed of their breadwinner. 

 

If, as is suggested, the net will eventually be widened to include retirees fortunate enough at present to be on O rather than O-A, the outlook is for a great deal of heartbreak and hardship for Thai/falang partners and their loved ones.

 

I suppose it is too much to expect any meaningful intervention, either collectively or individually, from our respective Consulates in Thailand. But one way or another, this beaucratic muddle needs to be sorted out - and the sooner the better for all concerned.

[chilly07]

Wow! Direct access to a non data protected Insurance data base for a retrospectively applied rule change. This implies a degree of organisational skill and management that must be very profitable!

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

I have read all the topics here on this specific issue

and i have seen from the most of them a different version from your.

 

Your confusing obtaining a visa with getting an extension of stay. 

[kingofthemountain]

6 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Your confusing obtaining a visa with getting an extension of stay. 

Nope

i perfectly know the requirment are differents for the two differents things

wait i try to find again the topic and i post back the link here. 

[TaoNow]

To LivinLOS and others:

 

Yes, I have read the related threads, but I felt this trip report was unique for the following:

 

1)  It is a first-person report; not hearsay.

2) It occured at Chaeng Wattana Immigration which I feel is the best indication of the intended national immigration policy and practices.

3) It refers to a case of a person who, presumably, had entered on a non-O-A visa which had expired and then who had extended multiple times for the purpose of retirement.  In other words, this did not involve all those cases of O-A entries still in their visa validity periods discussed in those other threads you seem to refer to.  

4) The amount of detail which OP provided strongly indicates that this was an actual experience, and not a troll post or exaggeration intended to alarm.

 

Thus, instead of just assuming that this is standard practice now, I think we need to carefully document the experience of other such O-A holders who extend at Chaeng Wattana to see what the policy actually is, in practice. 

 

Only first-person trip reports will help in that determination -- not your surmising.

[TigerandDog]

On 12/4/2019 at 9:19 AM, pitrevie said:

The Insurance Company I used was Pacific Cross which is on the approved list. It cost me just under 40K. 

I'm also with Pacific Cross, but here's an issue I have with them. They have a plan ( Standard Plus ) that has 450k IP and 45k OP cover, but they did NOT submit this plan for approval. Apparently, and I'm waiting for Ubonjoe to answer an enquiry I sent him on this, it's not just the health insurance company that has to be approved but also the plans, or at least that's what Pacific Cross are telling me.

[LivinLOS]

47 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

To LivinLOS and others:

 

<snip>

 

Only first-person trip reports will help in that determination -- not your surmising.

Theres 10s of them. from all over the country.. 

 

The thing that people miss is its not the application is denied, they are denied the start of the application.. So your not getting formal 'denied' stamps to post. However the entire country is reporting you cant extend OA permissions of stay without insurance. 

Whats still grey is, will they accept non Thai data base linked insurers, and what happens to arrivals post Oct 31 issued visas.. 

[Huckenfell]

On 12/4/2019 at 9:19 AM, pitrevie said:

The Insurance Company I used was Pacific Cross which is on the approved list. It cost me just under 40K. 

How old are you ?

 

[david555]

(Borrowed from a other poster , could maybe answer your question …)

 

(Copy paste of his  txt)

 

Pacific Cross is one of the better Thai insurers in that they'll write new policies up to age 75, and then guarantee renewals (albeit at very high prices) into your 90s. 
  
!!! Ignore the Standard and Standard Plus rates below as those two are NOT O-A certified. The other types of policies listed and their rates are O-A certified. 
  
And then, you can deduct between 25% and 50% off the rack premiums listed below if you're willing to accept annual deductibles on the coverage of 40K, 100K, 200K or 300K. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by david555

[islandgirljenny]

All of the discussion here has been about renewals in Bangkok.  I'm hearing from friends in Hua Hin that things are less stringent there.  Any experience from other posters about renewing up-country?  thanks, Jenny

[islandgirljenny]

But actually, I can't see any reason to stay in Thailand (now at age 70) with these constantly shifting rules.  Looking at moving to Malaysia, or returning to my home country.

[lamyai3]

13 hours ago, TaoNow said:

Thus, instead of just assuming that this is standard practice now, I think we need to carefully document the experience of other such O-A holders who extend at Chaeng Wattana to see what the policy actually is, in practice. 

Too many people seem to be taking this lying down - kicking up a stink was what got the airport "misunderstanding" reversed.

[Mansell]

6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Too many people seem to be taking this lying down - kicking up a stink was what got the airport "misunderstanding" reversed.

Suggestions how we can do this? I am up for this, but not sure of the way forward. We have nothing to lose as we will be kicked out anyway.

[Sheryl]

20 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Theres 10s of them. from all over the country.. 

 

The thing that people miss is its not the application is denied, they are denied the start of the application.. So your not getting formal 'denied' stamps to post. However the entire country is reporting you cant extend OA permissions of stay without insurance. 

Whats still grey is, will they accept non Thai data base linked insurers, and what happens to arrivals post Oct 31 issued visas.. 

 

If what you mean is will local Imm offices accept insurance from other than the companies on the "list" (I would not assume all or even most are linked to the database) the answer is clearly no from multiple reports.

 

It is only for initial issurance of the visa that this is possible.  I recently heard from someone who successfully entered on a New OA with notation from the Consulate based on a foreign policy (he did not get the "certificate" signed, Consulate agreed to proceed based on review of policy documents. Vancouver. No guarantee other Embassies/Consulates will do the same though).

 

 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

If what you mean is will local Imm offices accept insurance from other than the companies on the "list" (I would not assume all or even most are linked to the database) the answer is clearly no from multiple reports.

While I agree initial outcome looks that way, its such a niche on a niche, that I felt it wasnt yet conclusive.. 

I think we are reaching the point where the known knowns are clear and even the known unknowns are coming into focus.. 

[TaoNow]

LivinLOS -- perhaps you didn't getting the message:  Stop the conjecture and wait for the CW trip reports on this issue. 

 

Until then, get a life off the Forum

[berrec]

On 12/4/2019 at 9:19 AM, pitrevie said:

The Insurance Company I used was Pacific Cross which is on the approved list. It cost me just under 40K. 

Can I ask your age if you do not mind the personal question to get an idea of what this 40K age bracket policy was in 

[pitrevie]

4 hours ago, berrec said:

Can I ask your age if you do not mind the personal question to get an idea of what this 40K age bracket policy was in 

The table of premiums for Pacific Cross has already been posted and the Standard Extra Plus Plan cost for my age group is 77,473 baht this can be reduced below 40K as long as you are prepared to accept the first 300K In patient and 30K outpatient costs which I did reducing the premium I paid to below 40K. Hope that helps.

[Mapguy]

On 12/5/2019 at 12:36 PM, ubonjoe said:

That is from the cabinet resolution done in April. Not really new all.

They came up with a plan to charge a fee on entry to the country but is was abandoned.

Do you have a specific url for this?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Mapguy said:

Do you have a specific url for this?

Download: OA Insurance Cabinet Resolution.pdf