Tyre pressure and front wheel alignment

[JungleBiker]

Went to a tyre shop (in Ubon). 

To buy new front tyres.

I told the sales lady that I wanted the factory tyre

pressures: 28 psi all wheels. (Vigo 4WD) (Same pressure regardless of load or not). 

Lady said no, they recommend 35 psi for the first week to let the tyres "stretch". 

That sounded like BS to me but I'm not a tyre expert and did not want to argue. 

After the tyres/wheels were fitted and inflated, they put the vehicle on the wheel alignment rig. 

Later, it occurred to me that if after 1 week I deflated the tyres from 35 psi to 28 psi, the wheel alignment

would be then out of alignment..!?

 

I would welcome comments from people who know more about these things than I do, regarding...

- over inflating new tyres to let them stretch

- the importance (or not) of having the correct pressure when aligning the wheels. 

 

Thanks.

JB

 

 

[Moonlover]

A new tyre needs stretching? That, to me, is stretching the imagination. Sounds like another of the many Thai motoring myths.

 

And no, I wouldn't be concerned about the alignment. If it runs in a straight line with your hand off the steering wheel, everything is just dandy.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Moonlover

[steve187]

7 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

A new tyre needs stretching? That, to me, is stretching the imagination. Sounds like another of the many Thai motoring myths.

 

And no, I wouldn't be concerned about the alignment. If it runs in a straight line with your hand off the steering wheel, everything is just dandy.

 

not sure that i agree with the bit about if it runs in a straight line ......., but a small decrease in pressure will not effect it

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

A new tyre needs stretching? That, to me, is stretching the imagination. Sounds like another of the many Thai motoring myths.

 

And no, I wouldn't be concerned about the alignment. If it runs in a straight line with your hand off the steering wheel, everything is just dandy.

 

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

not sure that i agree with the bit about if it runs in a straight line ......., but a small decrease in pressure will not effect it

Well you may not think so but, the first indication of a steering misalignment is when the vehicle doesn't run in a straight line.

[JAS21]

Most shops will do an alignment check for you when you buy four new tires.

 

You would not notice a change in alignment if the pressure was dropped a few psi.

 

Your tire shop should be able to tell if you have an alignment problem just by looking at the tires. If your steering wheel is not straight when your car is going straight then that is a sign the alignment may be out. As mentioned previously, the car pulling to one side is another lndication of misalignment.

 

I will ignore the bit about stretching the tires........ But I believe I recall when tires were made of solid rubber many pumped them up harder for the first couple of weeks.......

Edited December 9, 2019 by JAS21

[bearpolar]

drop pressure yourself to the car recommandation

 

hit b-quick for a free or cheap alignment and tell them to not change tire pressure

 

let the girl live in her fantasy world

[Don Mega]

Wouldn't the tyre "stretch" when they belt it to 50 PSI to seat the beads ?

[steve187]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Well you may not think so but, the first indication of a steering misalignment is when the vehicle doesn't run in a straight line.

if they were over toe in then the car would still run straight, a good indication is if the white lines in the center of the road 'pull' you about

[DaRoadrunner]

Tyre pressure can affect alignment if the tyres are not evenly inflated.

 

Set the tyre pressures according to the book. Get the alignment checked (and this is the hard part, ... by someone who knows how to use the freaking alignment machine!).

 

B-Quik do have the proper laser alignment machine and some of their guys actually know how to use it!

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, JAS21 said:

As mentioned previously, the car pulling to one side is another lndication of misalignment.

Not necessary road camber is present in many different surfaces.

 

9 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

over inflating new tyres to let them stretch

Only done as mentioned already to seat the tyre firmly on the rim.

[transam]

Drop the pressures (cold) to what the door jamb sticker says...

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Drop the pressures (cold) to what the door jamb sticker says...

You should know TA but I thought it was recommended 31psi all round? on a 4x4 Vigo. Long time since I had mine so I could be incorrect. But as you say it's on the door jamb.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Drop the pressures (cold) to what the door jamb sticker says...

 

And don't forget to use Nitrogen to ensure the tyre pressures are consistent through varying temperature ranges !!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes... I know I know, that old chestnut... couldn't resist !

[transam]

30 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

You should know TA but I thought it was recommended 31psi all round? on a 4x4 Vigo. Long time since I had mine so I could be incorrect. But as you say it's on the door jamb.

29psi on the Vigo with 265 tyres, higher on a Vigo with factory skinny tyres...

[frequentatore]

The tire pressure doesn't affect the alignment at all as the equipment is attached to the rims of the wheel. The alignment is done based on the position of the rims.

[alacrity]

On 12/9/2019 at 11:47 AM, Moonlover said:

A new tyre needs stretching? That, to me, is stretching the imagination. Sounds like another of the many Thai motoring myths.

 

And no, I wouldn't be concerned about the alignment. If it runs in a straight line with your hand off the steering wheel, everything is just dandy.

 

The adverse cambers and tram-lining due to an adroit inability to fix imperfections make a nonsense of he second paragraph.

 

Setting geometry i.a.w manufacturers design requirement should be the way to go for everyday driving.

 

The need to stretch a tire is pure BS.

[DaRoadrunner]

7 hours ago, frequentatore said:

The tire pressure doesn't affect the alignment at all as the equipment is attached to the rims of the wheel. The alignment is done based on the position of the rims.

Beg to differ. Angle of rims is affected by tyre pressure. Job number one before doing alignment is check all pressures or you will not get accurate readings. Job number two... find someone who uses the alignment machine correctly... very hard to find in Thailand!

[Moonlover]

35 minutes ago, alacrity said:

And no, I wouldn't be concerned about the alignment. If it runs in a straight line with your hand off the steering wheel, everything is just dandy.

 

35 minutes ago, alacrity said:

The adverse cambers and tram-lining due to an adroit inability to fix imperfections make a nonsense of he second paragraph.

 

Setting geometry i.a.w manufacturers design requirement should be the way to go for everyday driving.

So judging by your comments regarding the (lack off) quality of alignment setting here, the best one can expect is the that the vehicle will steer a straight course. Right or not?

[DaRoadrunner]

18 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

So judging by your comments regarding the (lack off) quality of alignment setting here, the best one can expect is the that the vehicle will steer a straight course. Right or not?

Lots o luck, we are in Thailand! Many cars here have suffered accidents where the wheels were shoved out of alignment. Steering and suspension components get bent and chassis along with them. The Thai can only repair them cosmetically as few have the skill, much less a chassis jig to get it straight. When following one such vehicle you may notice the wheels do not line up. It goes down the road like a crab goes down the beach. Turning left may not be the same as turning right. It may also pull to one side..... Alignment.

[JAS21]

53 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Beg to differ. Angle of rims is affected by tyre pressure. Job number one before doing alignment is check all pressures or you will not get accurate readings. Job number two... find someone who uses the alignment machine correctly... very hard to find in Thailand!

find someone who uses the alignment machine correctly... very hard to find in Thailand! ... beg to differ ...Our car club has a list of places who can do such a job. 

[DaRoadrunner]

10 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

find someone who uses the alignment machine correctly... very hard to find in Thailand! ... beg to differ ...Our car club has a list of places who can do such a job. 

A link to your club might help many here. Thanks for posting.

 

As for alignment, many CLAIM they can do it... in reality few actually can. Takes knowledge and skill. And in the case of teaching the Thais, endless patience!

 

Regards

 

Da Roadrunner.... Ex UK motor trade.

Edited December 10, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[Moonlover]

10 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Lots o luck, we are in Thailand! Many cars here have suffered accidents where the wheels were shoved out of alignment. Steering and suspension components get bent and chassis along with them. The Thai can only repair them cosmetically as few have the skill, much less a chassis jig to get it straight. When following one such vehicle you may notice the wheels do not line up. It goes down the road like a crab goes down the beach. Turning left may not be the same as turning right. It may also pull to one side..... Alignment.

Whilst I have no doubt you're correct, this is not relevant. We're discussing the normal setting of the steering geometry on an undamaged vehicle. And BTW, your comment doesn't just apply to Thailand. It is a problem in many countries in the 'developing world' and some that I've known are a lot worse than this one.

[JAS21]

On 12/10/2019 at 9:37 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

A link to your club might help many here. Thanks for posting.

 

As for alignment, many CLAIM they can do it... in reality few actually can. Takes knowledge and skill. And in the case of teaching the Thais, endless patience!

 

Regards

 

Da Roadrunner.... Ex UK motor trade.

Ah so for Ex Motor Trade… I should read Black Leather Jacket, Jeans and Brylcreem …????

 

I’ll have to ask for the list again, however I can vouch for the following two places …

 

The Eagle Store which is on the opposite side of the road to Makro Chaengwattana and on the road which is down the side of the bridge. So take the frontage at 13.896859 100.550167 and look out for the Blue EAGLE sign … don’t miss the entrance! I think 400thb.

They have Hunter equipment and they have set up cars several times for me over the years. Unfortunately they don’t have the ‘program’ for our latest money pit.

 

So, although I have been very careful during the last six months, looking out  for ‘speed humps’ and ‘potholes’ a couple of weeks ago I failed to see one on a dark road, bang and the steering wheel was not straight anymore and I was only doing about 20kph.

 

I gave MrsJ a list or four ‘local’ shops. She talked to them all and said the guy at Chompom Tire is I think the best choice and he speaks English. Later he told me your wife knows a little bit about alignment and the fact that Camber and Caster can’t be adjusted, which few owners know.

 

Now he is old school, just like his REPCO equipment so he can’t give you an overall alignment as can be had with computer equipment.

But his machine is kept very busy, there was a car being done and he said one like yours has just left. His place is at 13.807567 100.571370.  I spent all the time talking to him, at the car and in the pit, whilst the alignments were being carried out. He set all wheels to 1/16^th toe in and I have to say it felt a huge improvement.

 

I attach pics. of the front wheel alignment. Camber, also Toe In before and after. We found that the rear o/s wheel was actually Toein out!  He charges 800thb.

 

If you have a problem understanding the gauges ... when the right hand light is lit you read the toe in and when the light next to it is lit you read the camber angle.

Above is the Caster angle ....

 

You can see that it was the front LHS that dropped into the pothole.

 

 

So the car was set up at 1/8th total toe (front and rear). I'll keep an eye on the tyres but I can't wait to get rid of the Run Flats! A hard ride and 'kin noisy!

 

You can also see that his m/c only goes up to 18" wheels .. I have 19" ones but he said very little difference.

Edited December 11, 2019 by JAS21
One pic posted twice...

[JAS21]

On 12/10/2019 at 8:32 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

Beg to differ. Angle of rims is affected by tyre pressure. Job number one before doing alignment is check all pressures or you will not get accurate readings. Job number two... find someone who uses the alignment machine correctly... very hard to find in Thailand!

Ah ... you are assuming conventional tyres ... not RFT's ... you have a point but I would be hugely surprised if a small difference in pressures actually made much difference if any .... but am willing to accept that it might .......... ????

[DaRoadrunner]

30 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

Ah so for Ex Motor Trade… I should read Black Leather Jacket, Jeans and Brylcreem …

No, Roadrunners have no use for Brylcream.

 

Former employee of five car manufacturers, later owner of garage business with sales, servicing and bodyshop.

Edited December 11, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[canthai55]

Caster set and not adjustable.

If your shop says camber can not be adjusted - find a new shop

[JAS21]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

Caster set and not adjustable.

If your shop says camber can not be adjusted - find a new shop

R U really sure on that statement ....

Edited December 12, 2019 by JAS21

[canthai55]

5 hours ago, JAS21 said:

R U really sure on that statement ....

If truck is a 4X4, older model, with a solid front axle, not IRS, then no easy adjustment. If very bad camber the axle is bent to allow changes - expert shop required with a frame table and hydraulic cylinders to make the adjustment on the solid steel tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMqY5deK8I8

Vast majority here have MacPherson struts in the front, with upper and lower A-arms or some sort of 5 link

In this case camber is adjustable.

Either camber bolts in the bottom or adjustable plates in the top.

Edited December 12, 2019 by canthai55

[JAS21]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

If truck is a 4X4, older model, with a solid front axle, not IRS, then no easy adjustment. If very bad camber the axle is bent to allow changes - expert shop required with a frame table and hydraulic cylinders to make the adjustment on the solid steel tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMqY5deK8I8

Vast majority here have MacPherson struts in the front, with upper and lower A-arms or some sort of 5 link

In this case camber is adjustable.

Either camber bolts in the bottom or adjustable plates in the top.

OK, yes you can get camber bolts, but the adjustment is stepped and you can’t do a lot.

 

Also you can get aftermarket adjusters for the rear.

 

But  not the sort of thing you would expect the average alignment shop to be able to do Every shop I’ve talked to says cannot. I would expect only a suspension specialist would attempt.

 

Obviously, people who race, or just want their wheels to look different, will fit this Aftermarket gear

Edited December 12, 2019 by JAS21

[canthai55]

Put new struts in the Teana. Required full wheel alignment.

Camber and toe in adjusted

Done in CNX

It ain't rocket science.

Any shop that says 'cannot' - go find a competent shop