Gasoline 91 or 95 ?

[Assurancetourix]

I have an existential question:

what gasoline to put in a Honda water pump which is used to fill a water tank by pumping it into a lake?
91 or 95?

 

In France it's " 95 euro " but here , which one ? 91 or 95 ?

 

Thanks a lot in advance 

 

 

 

[transam]

You can use anything over 87 octane, at a push you can use E10 but I think not recommended..

 

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/974556/Honda-Wb20xt.html?page=32

Edited January 29, 2020 by transam

[VocalNeal]

It is a GX120 engine. Unleaded 86 octane or higher

 

https://engines.honda.com/models/model-detail/mid-gx#Specifications

 

http://www.honda-engines-eu.com/shop-manuals?e=0_13&p=all&d=all&l=en_GB&t=all

[Assurancetourix]

Thank you to you too for the rapid answer ;

so 91 or 95 without problem ..

May I mix them ?

 

Avoid E10 as wrote Transam unless I cannot do otherwise;
but finding 91 or 95 is very easy.

 

Thanks again 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Assurancetourix said:

Thank you to you too for the rapid answer ;

so 91 or 95 without problem ..

May I mix them ?

 

Avoid E10 as wrote Transam unless I cannot do otherwise;
but finding 91 or 95 is very easy.

 

Thanks again 

Yes...

[KhunBENQ]

None of the farmers here has access to fuel without Ethanol.

They run such pumps on many occasions.

The village pump station has nothing but Diesel and 95.

Everything except pickups is run on 95.

 

A Honda pump sold in Thailand over the last few years that does not tolerate gasohol 95?

Hard to believe.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, Assurancetourix said:

Thank you to you too for the rapid answer ;

so 91 or 95 without problem ..

May I mix them ?

Why should you?

Use gasohol 95. 91 will be phased-out anytime soon.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

This is a link to the datasheet in Thai:

http://www.champmarketing.com/images/catalog_images/datasheet_honda_wb_series_2.pdf

 

This is a screenshot about the fuel.

So no question that 10% ethanol like in "91" or "95" is certified.

(datasheet if for both WB20 and WB30)

Edited January 29, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[VocalNeal]

Quote

 

GASOLINES CONTAINING ALCOHOL If you decide to use a gasoline containing alcohol (gasohol), be sure it’s octane rating is at least as high as that recommended by Honda. There are two types of ‘‘gasohol’’: one containing ethanol, and the other containing methanol. Do not use gasohol that contains more than 10% ethanol. Do not use gasoline containing methanol (methyl or wood alcohol) that does not also contain cosolvents and corrosion inhibitors for methanol. Never use gasoline containing more than 5% methanol, even if it has cosolvents and corrosion inhibitors.

 

NOTE: Fuel system damage or engine performance problems resulting from the use of fuels that contain alcohol is not covered under the warranty. Honda cannot endorse the use of fuels containing methanol since evidence of their suitability is as yet incomplete. Before buying fuel from an unfamiliar station, try to find out if the fuel contains alcohol, if it does, confirm the type and percentage of alcohol used. If you notice any undesirable operating symptoms while using a gasoline that contains alcohol, or one that you think contains alcohol, switch to a gasoline that you know does not contain alcohol.

 

 

So E10 is OK if locally you cannot get fuel without ethanol. 

 

http://www.honda-engines-eu.com/documents/10912/23595/1018/cf58db4f-7299-4796-8ed5-aad62190a3f3

Edited January 29, 2020 by VocalNeal

[Kerryd]

You can use lower rated fuels for short periods without fear. I wouldn't recommend more than a single tank full at a time though. After that, try to run at least a couple tank fulls of better fuel.

If I ever have to use a lower grade fuel for some reason, I try to mix it (if possible) with some better fuel until I get enough to fill the tank with the better grade stuff. (Like the time I ran out of fuel on the Harley and some nice old guys stopped and offered me half a jug of some <deleted> ethanol they'd had in the cart for who knows how long. It was enough to get me the 15 kms to the next gas station though where I then filled the tank with the yellow 95 I normally run in the bike.)

The higher grade fuels usually burn better (less smoke and fouling) and don't cause as much wear on the engine as you'd have using lower grade fuels for a long time. Even if you are running your pump 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 11 months of the year, I wouldn't worry about having to use the odd tankful of lower grade fuel now and then.

(But you'd probably want to get rid of any lower grade stuff you have or get a separate container for better grade fuel and mark it "pump gas".)

[Peterw42]

24 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

You can use lower rated fuels for short periods without fear. I wouldn't recommend more than a single tank full at a time though. After that, try to run at least a couple tank fulls of better fuel.

If I ever have to use a lower grade fuel for some reason, I try to mix it (if possible) with some better fuel until I get enough to fill the tank with the better grade stuff. (Like the time I ran out of fuel on the Harley and some nice old guys stopped and offered me half a jug of some <deleted> ethanol they'd had in the cart for who knows how long. It was enough to get me the 15 kms to the next gas station though where I then filled the tank with the yellow 95 I normally run in the bike.)

The higher grade fuels usually burn better (less smoke and fouling) and don't cause as much wear on the engine as you'd have using lower grade fuels for a long time. Even if you are running your pump 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 11 months of the year, I wouldn't worry about having to use the odd tankful of lower grade fuel now and then.

(But you'd probably want to get rid of any lower grade stuff you have or get a separate container for better grade fuel and mark it "pump gas".)

If an engine is designed to use low octane fuel then that is the best quality fuel to use. Higher octane does not equal better quality if the engine does not require it.

High octane fuel burns better under high compression, ie: it works better in a high compression engine. (it ignites after its been compressed resulting in a stronger explosion). High octane fuel in a low compression engine fails to ignite, leading to less power.

Octane rating has nothing to do with fuel quality/grade. its a rating relevant to the compression ratio of the engine.

[Tracyb]

Hmmmm, I thought “91” fuel was actually the same as E10 and that 95 had no alcohol.  What say you all?

[Assurancetourix]

Thank you all;
I think we have gone around my question.
If a moderator wants to close, he can .

[kensisaket]

57 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

Hmmmm, I thought “91” fuel was actually the same as E10 and that 95 had no alcohol.  What say you all?

91 is/was a blended fuel. Before all the "ahol" additives came out it was a blend of the lowest grade fuel 87/89; and, the higher grade 95.  That blending can be done directly inside the gas pump/dispenser. Generally a 60/40 blend. Some companies blend at the refinery which I am sure is done in the case of the newer fuels. FYI there is a difference between pumps; and, dispensers. A gas pump has a pump built into it; whereas, a dispenser is used with a pump submersed directly into the underground fuel tanks. That blending is an option that can ordered as an add on to either one. 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by kensisaket

[ross163103]

95 is pure gasoline, all others are blends with some percentage of alcohol in them. I run 95 in my car only because it doesn't contain alcohol not because of the higher octane rating. Fuels with alcohol in them tend to dry out the rubber parts over time. 

[Odin Norway]

You can run on any kind of fuel really,but if you then store it with fuel in the tank for a few months.Do not expect it to start again so easy.

95 yellow gasoline is the only one you can store it safely with.Any other fuel can and will be hard to start,due to a layer that builds up in the fuel system.I have seen it on lawn mowers,gras trimmers,generators and chain saws.Also any equipment with 2 or 4% oil mix.Some PTT stations has it,but not all.Run it on what ever ,but clean the system with 95 gasoline before storing.Yes it can be hard to get in the middle of nowhere that many of us live and local small stations normally do not have it.

 

[SunsetT]

23 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

have an existential question

Why existential?   Are you planning to end it all by jumping into the lake?

 

Please listen to this serious debate before deciding:

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

4 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

Thank you all;
I think we have gone around my question.
If a moderator wants to close, he can .

We've only got to 17 posts . If you want another 40 you could also ask whether or not you should use semi-synthetic oil?

[natway09]

91 or 95 OK. They are compatable so mixing no problem

[Lacessit]

RTFM

[Randy99]

Octane rating is a measure of a fuels resistance to detonation.  Once ignited the fuel air charge is meant to burn smoothly and evenly with the flame front starting at the spark and consuming the fuel/air charge in a smooth manner.  Detonation can occur when fuel of a lower octane rating than the engine manufacturer specifies is used.  Generally the higher the compression ratio the engine has, the higher the octane rating is required.  Having said that, detonation can occur for other reasons too.  Detonation is where the fuel/air charge detonates like a bomb does rather than burning smoothly and evenly.  I have personally observed the damage that can result from detonation which often results in a hole being burned all the way through the piston crown or the piston shattering into tiny pieces.   Both are rather ugly.

[Crossy]

9 hours ago, Tracyb said:

Hmmmm, I thought “91” fuel was actually the same as E10 and that 95 had no alcohol.  What say you all?

 

Nope.

 

At present you can get:-

91 gasohol (10%).

95 gasohol (10%).

95 "benzine" no alcohol but $$ and getting rarer.

 

The government want to phase out the 91 gasohol in favour of E20 which these little engines don't like. Time to pay a bit more for the 95.

 

[Dazinoz]

8 hours ago, kensisaket said:

Some companies blend at the refinery

All gasoline is blended at the refinery. There is no such thing as "straight run" gasoline. It is a blend of many different refinery processes to meet the octane rating and government regulations. The production of gasoline is not a simple process. The "simple" process would be jet fuel (kerosine) which comes from the first process unit, the crude unit. Basically after that it is just cleaned and as much water removed as possible. Diesel is nearly straight run but at the refinery I worked at also was blended with Light Cycle Oil that was passed through the Hydrotreater where hydrogen is added.

 

I worked at the Caltex Refinery in Brisbane for 23 years and gasoline produced there has a blend of Light catalytic Naptha, Isomerate, Alkylate, Reformate, butane and others I can't remember. Different refineries have different processing plants but essentially products are blended to produce the final product. As I mentioned different countries have different specs as to the levels of certain items such as benzine. 

 

Climate to where the gasoline is going also plays a significant part of the blend. If a blend was meant for Darwin in summer time was sent to Tasmania in winter then the cars would not start. In reverse the winter blend for Tassie sent to Darwin the the fuel would evaporate too quickly.

[eisfeld]

10 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

High octane fuel burns better under high compression, ie: it works better in a high compression engine. (it ignites after its been compressed resulting in a stronger explosion). High octane fuel in a low compression engine fails to ignite, leading to less power.

High octane fuel will not fail to ignite in a low compression engine. What ignites the fuel in these engines is a spark and not the compression like for example in a diesel. The higher octane rating is needed in high compression engines to *prevent* premature combustion just by compression.

 

9 hours ago, ross163103 said:

95 is pure gasoline, all others are blends with some percentage of alcohol in them. I run 95 in my car only because it doesn't contain alcohol not because of the higher octane rating. Fuels with alcohol in them tend to dry out the rubber parts over time. 

There is 95 gasoline and there is 95 gasohol. The 95 octane rating says nothing about the ethanol content. Most fuel stations in Thailand carry 95 gasohol. Some do also carry 95 benzine (no alcohol/ethanol).

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

 

There is 95 gasoline and there is 95 gasohol. The 95 octane rating says nothing about the ethanol content. Most fuel stations in Thailand carry 95 gasohol. Some do also carry 95 benzine (no alcohol/ethanol).

The 95 "benzine" is about 10 baht per litre more expensive, at least in Chiang Rai. Not easy to find.