Should I go Solar?

[Max69xl]

On 4/19/2020 at 10:54 PM, liddelljohn said:

My house in UK has full solar 4kw panels and batteries  for 5 years  , we feed excess power to the grid and get paid for it ,, its a win win and thats in UK

 

Solar Installation for my home in Thailand  should be  ano brainer !!!!

But cost of installation in Thailand quotes have been double that of UK   ,,

also most of the availble gear I have seen in LOS is over priced rubbish ,

 

Until January I did have a nice 1.8kw generator  well hidden behind my house  and locked inside a little shed ,, but some scroat  nicked it ..

"we feed excess power to the grid and get paid for it"

As far as I know it doesn't work in Thailand. Both MEA and PEA don't allow it. 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, English Engineer said:

Many companies quote peak but output is reduced in the rainy season.

Not true.

In winter you get longer hours but not as strong.

In summer you get monsoon, but stronger sun.

 

My panels produce the same output every month (30 units/month per 300w panel).

[NoshowJones]

On 4/19/2020 at 11:12 PM, CharlieH said:

Happy to hear otherwise, but personally I havnt heard of ONE full Solar system being installed successfully and operational.

 

I do however know of disasters and BIG  financial losses and legal battles.

 

Best of luck with your plans.

I have had solar panes for about seven years, and there has never been any problems, but again it was fitted by Mrs Possums son who had just started working full time at it.

[NoshowJones]

On 4/20/2020 at 12:41 AM, SidJames said:

Do not use batteries!!!

They are still basically the same batteries that are in lorries/trucks, heavy gel batteries that last 6-8 years if you're lucky.

The industry has been promising big grown up versions of the lithium compound batteries that our phones use for years with nothing in sight yet.

Go solar but only direct & rely on PEA for night or heavy cloud/rainy days.

A diesel back-up generator is a good investment but don't get one that is just powerful enough to feed your house, get one that is more powerful so that it doesn't have to run at 100% when needed because it will burn out.

Look at DC pumps etc but remember that they won't work unless their is solar PV power.

If you can get an overseas retiree who's worked on the rigs or Oz that has knowledge then try to get them to advise & self install using local workers (the panels are very easy to fit if you do it correctly).

There are 2 types of panels I understand so ask about both.

The main problem here is the lack of knowledge, training & engineering as was pointed out on here by another very knowledgeable poster.

Good luck & let us know how you get on please.

I agree with you about the batteries, we don't use them at all.

[digger70]

To be Safe and Reliable and the Cheapest in the long run I would get a Diesel Generator/Alternator that Can provide the Required  KVA . Put a Safety Switch To prevent Switching on the Gen/Alt before turning OFF the Mains Main Switch . I wouldn't  Wire the Gen/Alt to Automatic Start when the Mains cut out. I have seen too many Dramas when the Power goes off and on for a few minutes at the time . One would have to have a Time Delay say 10/15 Min Before Automatic Start. 

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, digger70 said:

To be Safe and Reliable and the Cheapest in the long run I would get a Diesel Generator/Alternator that Can provide the Required  KVA . Put a Safety Switch To prevent Switching on the Gen/Alt before turning OFF the Mains Main Switch . I wouldn't  Wire the Gen/Alt to Automatic Start when the Mains cut out. I have seen too many Dramas when the Power goes off and on for a few minutes at the time . One would have to have a Time Delay say 10/15 Min Before Automatic Start. 

 

Our genset starts within 30 seconds of a mains failure. But once it's running it runs for a minimum of 5 minutes (trial and error selected that time, up to 15 mins on the timer we have), once the juice returns we run on genset for a further 5 minutes before switching back. All completely seamless. Going out in the dark and the rain (it's always dark and wet) to start / stop the generator becomes old very rapidly.

 

If you go manual it is VITAL that you have an interlocked transfer switch so your mains and genset can never be connected at the same time. They are pretty cheap now on AliExpress, less than $10 including shipping https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32786129292.html

 

 

[digger70]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Our genset starts within 30 seconds of a mains failure. But once it's running it runs for a minimum of 5 minutes (trial and error selected that time, up to 15 mins on the timer we have), once the juice returns we run on genset for a further 5 minutes before switching back. All completely seamless. Going out in the dark and the rain (it's always dark and wet) to start / stop the generator becomes old very rapidly.

 

If you go manual it is VITAL that you have an interlocked transfer switch so your mains and genset can never be connected at the same time. They are pretty cheap now on AliExpress, less than $10 including shipping https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32786129292.html

 

 

Great Crossy ;  That works fine for you But how many expats Know anything /Not much off the Thai Power system or any electric system , to keep an eye on the Electrician Doing the Installation .I know I had to Correct the So called Certified Thai electrician that he wasn't doing what he was suppose to be  doing.  

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, English Engineer said:

The PEA in general do not allow you to export. Hence if not used when produced at the time, additional energy will go to the grid, with no credit.

While technically true many people actually manage to run the meter backwards, as long as your careful you can do it that way for years.

[Greg O]

Great info thanks y'all..

[mixed]

I've been considering solar and wanted to start as simple due to the learning curve. My plan would be the simplest combination of panel and pump to send water from our well to 2m high tanks. The pump can be very slow because it will pump all day.

 

From there I'd like at other options, but I need to learn, I find it quite confusing and this is before even speaking to Thai about it.

 

I have a decent collection of Bosh 36v lithium batteries. Could these somehow be added to the system to give a little stored power?

[rosst]

I can't speak about the Thai environment, but I built a house in the Philippines and I set up a 2Kw 8 panel system hybrid inverter and using absorbed glass matt lead acid batteries. 

The system is designed to be grid connected to handle the heavy intermittent loads like the oven and hot water system and the welder which remain grid connected. Everything alse, water pump half horsepower fans and led lights all from the batteries 24/7 but in the event of a full day not enough sunshine it recharges from the grid. 

I only have four 100 Amphour batteries and they are more than adequate. 

I have had the system in place for three years with no difficulties at all. 

I did the installation myself. 

143,000Pesos plus I did the installation that included good quality roof racking. 

I anticipated additional batteries at the five year mark 

[mrmicbkktxl]

Generator,regulator,inverter,capicitor,back up bla,bla etc..Isn't there some easy solution?I like to go to a shop buy 2 or 3 panels,place them in my garden,plug some extension cable in and connect my tv or notebook,fan,phone charger,etc. in,finished

[Crossy]

37 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Generator,regulator,inverter,capicitor,back up bla,bla etc..Isn't there some easy solution?I like to go to a shop buy 2 or 3 panels,place them in my garden,plug some extension cable in and connect my tv or notebook,fan,phone charger,etc. in,finished

 

Yup.

 

A couple of panels on a ground stand and a 600W micro-inverter, plug it into an outlet and it will feed power into your home (provided you have mains power at the time) and that power will offset your bill.

 

You should be able to pick it up at one of the numerous little solar shops.

 

Those two panels will make you about 9 Baht of electricity per day.

 

This is our local place, I'm sure you will find something similar.

 

 

 

[gamesgplayemail]

so, what are the circumstances when solar is worth in Thailand ?

a diesel generator is always better ? what brand / price please ?

thanks.

 

[mrmicbkktxl]

26 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yup.

 

A couple of panels on a ground stand and a 600W micro-inverter, plug it into an outlet and it will feed power into your home (provided you have mains power at the time) and that power will offset your bill.

 

You should be able to pick it up at one of the numerous little solar shops.

 

Those two panels will make you about 9 Baht of electricity per day.

 

This is our local place, I'm sure you will find something similar.

 

 

 

Thanks,where are you located?Do you have a website?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Thanks,where are you located?Do you have a website?

 

That shop is here 14.030223, 100.528468 I have no idea if they have a website.

 

If you want to go online shopping have a look at Amorn Solar, they also have retail outlets in some Amorn branches, the largest being in the Old Siam Plaza, Ban Moh, Bangkok.

 

[mrmicbkktxl]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

That shop is here 14.030223, 100.528468 I have no idea if they have a website.

 

If you want to go online shopping have a look at Amorn Solar, they also have retail outlets in some Amorn branches, the largest being in the Old Siam Plaza, Ban Moh, Bangkok.

 

Thank you

[CharlieH]

6 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I have had solar panes for about seven years, and there has never been any problems, but again it was fitted by Mrs Possums son who had just started working full time at it.

Was that a "full house system" ? the entire property running on solar as I meant or was it just some or one aspect?

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Was that a "full house system" ? the entire property running on solar as I meant or was it just some or one aspect?

It's the full house system Charlie.

[CharlieH]

Just now, possum1931 said:

It's the full house system Charlie.

Thanks, good to know, I was under the impression it was a part system,(dont know why) great its worked for you so well for you for so long. ????

[pineapple01]

Cant see much point in laying out for the Equipment when our Domestic Bill is peanuts here anyway. I can see the point for it being something interesting to do. I still haven't noticed the Millions ive saved with our Must Have new Air-cons. Cons seems a fitting description.

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, Arjen said:

But you do not have batteries? So what do you use at night?

Or do you sale your overproduction at daytime to the grid? Do you never have problems with that you supply more to the grid then you use?

 

For me a setup like this will never work, as our grid is not very reliable.

I don't know a lot about them, but I do know it is not a battery system and however it works it has worked well for about 7 years now.

[mistral53]

On 4/19/2020 at 10:31 PM, northsouthdevide said:

I'm also considering going solar on a planned new build. 

Apart from a few solar street lights in my drive, I'm also pretty much a novice. 

I've been mulling over a hybrid system, eather with, or without batteries, tied to the grid via a phase one hook up. 

At the moment, I'm on phase 3, and my energy bills are very expensive, so won't be going down that road. 

Anyway, while reading a story the other day in the bkk post, a pop up add appeared for a solar company in hua Hin. 

They said they will serve anywhere in Thailand for the same price. 

They seem very professional, so I saved it to my home screen, and will be giving them a call in the future.    They are called hua Hin solar solutions and their contact link gives you their Facebook page. 

There's also a tel number 0640528172. 

 

After plenty of ups and downs with workmen in this country, I've decided that when choosing my solar system, I'm not going to do what I've done in the past, and that's compromise. 

Not with electric. 

 

I have quite a few friends that have had a solar system installed by a company in HH. Unfortunately, they are not happy with the results vs. promised output. I have investigated the pros and cons to go solar myself, and there are a lot, I also talked with a lot of users........then Covid-19 came around and put the brakes on all my plans.

 

As for the electric meter spinning backwards - be very careful, several people I know were fined by PEA for a pretty coin after it was discovered they illegally fed power back to the grid.

 

Bottom line - most of us are retired and have oodles of time on our hands - spend a few weeks and get educated by real experts, then spend a few more weeks talking to potential suppliers. If done properly, with present prices, a decent sized grid tied system has an excellent ROI of around 5 years, could get even better. (small systems will take longer) Stay away from hybrid systems, they will never return your investment as the initial investment is much higher, batteries are too expensive and high maintenance.

[sirquest007]

I live off grid.

Closest electricity point is 8km....

 

No other options ????

 

my system have 3*9 330w panels, 3300 THB each.

 

Revo II MPPT inverter system system.

3 * 3200 watt in parallel setup.

that's 9.600 watts, and can be 9kw continuous usage 

Short time peak 12kw.

1650 USD, + 150 tax.

They have WiFi and cool monitor app ????

 

I used to have 16 X 12v@200Ah deep cycle at 7.700 THB each.

they didn't last long. ????

Defective charger that feeds them 78 Volt for 48volt system does that...

 

now 48x 152ah lifepo4 batteries!

The 152 are out of stock but the 280 are fully available for about 80 USD each.

2 reliable sellers are Haomi and Xuba

(Click to go to the 280ah page)

 

Lifepo4 is amazing compared to lead acid.

Charging efficiency of LA is about <75%. Yes, you lose 25% into heat during charging.

Lifepo4 have >95% !

That can be seen as 20% free panels ????

 

besides this.

LA have lifetime of 7 years at 20 degrees

5 at 25, 3 at 30 and 1 year at 35 degrees Celsius..

 

Lifepo4 don't care up to 45 degrees.

After that... Slightly lower.

It does not like to be charged during negative temperature!!!!

 

Lifecycle is + 2000.

That is every day for 7 years.

It also doesn't care that much about discharge..

 

LA loves to be fully charged.

And stay that way.

50% Discharge  or more reduce lifecycle

 

Lifepo4 like all between 5 and 95%.

Tesla make +/- 5000 cycles by  stay above 20 and below 80% charge.

 

Between 5 and 95 give you about 2500 cycles before you notice capacity loss.

 

And..

The power output is almost the same during the whole discharge!!

 

Lead acid drops voltage.

Lifepo4 stay the same up to the end where it's almost empty. (= 5%)

 

Biggest difference is that lifepo4 needs BMS.

I choose the Daly 250A common port.

They are the most reliable out there.

 

But..

One downside...

No active monitoring, and if the cells get out of balance, the top is burned off in heat.

 

That's why I also have an active balancer.

BT monitoring, and it really moves the additional charge of the higher charged cells to the lower ones!

 

My 48* 152 ah, total 23.3kwh, effective usable 22.5kw/h naturally where not cheap.

I payed about 2600 USD include transport and taxes.

(Ask for DDP transport, that is door to door transport, all costs paid, no hassle service)

The BMS and balancer make a total of about $3000,-

 

Really usable is 22.5kw.

That is more then I could use from the Lead acid batteries..

16*12v*200ah= 38.4, but max 50% makes 19.2kw/h.

 

16*7700 + 200 transport each, makes 126.400 THB, or $4500

 

So..

Actually..

Lifepo4 is now cheaper than Lead acid!!

 

Don't be scared about building the battery pack, it's really simple.

 

 

[sirquest007]

1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

I have quite a few friends that have had a solar system installed by a company in HH. Unfortunately, they are not happy with the results vs. promised output. I have investigated the pros and cons to go solar myself, and there are a lot, I also talked with a lot of users........then Covid-19 came around and put the brakes on all my plans.

 

As for the electric meter spinning backwards - be very careful, several people I know were fined by PEA for a pretty coin after it was discovered they illegally fed power back to the grid.

 

Bottom line - most of us are retired and have oodles of time on our hands - spend a few weeks and get educated by real experts, then spend a few more weeks talking to potential suppliers. If done properly, with present prices, a decent sized grid tied system has an excellent ROI of around 5 years, could get even better. (small systems will take longer) Stay away from hybrid systems, they will never return your investment as the initial investment is much higher, batteries are too expensive and high maintenance.

Yes, educate yourself!!

 

Solar panels are simple as Lego.

And if you make your own cables (MC4 connect) use a CRIMPING tool!!!

Or solder.

Otherwise your roof might catch fire.

 

PWM/MPPT is simple too.

2 cables in, 2 out.

MPPT is more efficient than PWM, but more expensive.

That is 10 Vs 60 USD for 5-10% gain.

Depending on your size it might be worth it.

 

Hybrid system is not only about price efficiency.

It is about having power when the rest of the street have not.

 

Yes, batteries are investment, but with the current Lifepo4 prices and their real lifetime and efficiently..

No really big investment anymore!!

 

And it saves you the fine given by the PEA.

You don't feed the grid.

 

Feeding the grid give you 4 BAHT, and at night you buy it back for 10 BAHT.

Depending on your usage, you can calculate when the batteries really pay off.

7 KW/h lifepo4is about 850 usd

27.500 THB.

7 x 6 THB  42 THB.

27500 /42 = roughly 2 years.

 

7 year lifespan 

7 x 365 x 42= 100.000 THB

 

Adding small batteries, only 7kw will save you 75.000 in 7 years.

Feel free to sell your over capacity to the grid /PEA and buy it back at night.

 

Don't state that it is not have a good ROI, unless you really know what you talk about.

 

If you start using lead acid..

Yes, you are right.

 

Lifepo4 is nowadays cheaper.

[sead]

I'm in a summer house in Denmark currently.  This house has 2x120w panels and I can run my 17 inch gaming computer and charge phone and have 2 led lights on all night. I got a 700ah battery running. If you want to have absolutely no worries the you can add a wind turbine also

 

[DekDaeng]

LK, if your fridge is running full time, you may need a new one. My largish (2 door / 1 drawer) Toshiba runs much less than full time, average consumption is  86W. Maybe borrow / buy an e meter so you can test?

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, DekDaeng said:

LK, if your fridge is running full time, you may need a new one. My largish (2 door / 1 drawer) Toshiba runs much less than full time, average consumption is  86W. Maybe borrow / buy an e meter so you can test?

I meant it's always connected and I wouldn't like to unplug it due to lack of power, not that the compressor actually runs nonstop.

Anyway, with all the info and suggestions I got here I think the answer for my problem might be a UPS system that can support lights, fridge, ceiling fan,  computer and router for few hours.

It seems that powerful enough solar system might be too expensive and also a bit complicated, and genset - even with auto start/ stop won't solve the power interruptions. 

[Crossy]

5 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Anyway, with all the info and suggestions I got here I think the answer for my problem might be a UPS system that can support lights, fridge, ceiling fan,  computer and router for few hours.

It seems that powerful enough solar system might be too expensive and also a bit complicated, and genset - even with auto start/ stop won't solve the power interruptions. 

 

There's no single answer for everyone's problems.

 

Support for "a few hours" may still require a prohibitive cost in batteries. You need to do some simple sums as to what you want to support and for how long (and when the batteries are finished that's it until the power returns).

 

Our solar is on-grid so provides no UPS functionality. We have an auto-start genset with individual (cheap) UPSs on the technology that needs them (PCs, network kit and the TVs) to bridge over the 30 seconds or so it takes the genset to start. Going this way may be your best price/performance option.

 

[Metropolitian]

Solar :  In Bangkok today and Northern of Bangkok (me) tomorrow at 12:15pm the sun will be right above us and the solarpanels.

Sunset and dawn was already in the north viewed from our position, but will now officially at noon too.

 

My panels, which now are not optimal positioned, facing south-east and south-west will generate a little bit less the next months.

Next year additional panels will be mounted on the roof facing 'north' (small slope), south facing roof is occupied.